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Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
#26

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:17 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: I meant nothing about saying "I knew you'd say that." But..it's an atheist site, so it didn't surprise me, that's all.

Nothing to do with atheism, just not a normal internet thing in my experience and I was curious so I said something. I'm pretty straightforward that way.

Anyway, back to your thread.
Freedom isn't free.
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#27

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:25 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:17 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: I meant nothing about saying "I knew you'd say that." But..it's an atheist site, so it didn't surprise me, that's all.

Nothing to do with atheism, just not a normal internet thing in my experience and I was curious so I said something. I'm pretty straightforward that way.

Anyway, back to your thread.

It's frenetic, and it's assuming a false sense of familiarity with members, which are sock behaviors. I hope to be proven wrong. We always gladly accept genuine people as members.
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#28

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:19 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: I didn't raise my cat. She raised me to worship her for the goddess she is.

We tried to raise my cat (rest her little soul), but she just hissed incessantly at us. Now we have pups, and they are infinitely nicer.
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#29

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 03:19 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:25 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:17 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: I meant nothing about saying "I knew you'd say that." But..it's an atheist site, so it didn't surprise me, that's all.

Nothing to do with atheism, just not a normal internet thing in my experience and I was curious so I said something. I'm pretty straightforward that way.

Anyway, back to your thread.

It's frenetic, and it's assuming a false sense of familiarity with members, which are sock behaviors. I hope to be proven wrong. We always gladly accept genuine people as members.

Ya'll are some particular ones, I will give you that. There seems to be an assumption that I would know what "sock behaviors" are. Dare I ask? I will try to tread lightly seeing that I am new. I have seen behaviors like mine backfire before, so before I paint myself into a corner.....
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#30

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 03:32 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:19 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:25 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Nothing to do with atheism, just not a normal internet thing in my experience and I was curious so I said something. I'm pretty straightforward that way.

Anyway, back to your thread.

It's frenetic, and it's assuming a false sense of familiarity with members, which are sock behaviors. I hope to be proven wrong. We always gladly accept genuine people as members.

Ya'll are some particular ones, I will give you that. There seems to be an assumption that I would know what "sock behaviors" are. Dare I ask? I will try to tread lightly seeing that I am new. I have seen behaviors like mine backfire before, so before I paint myself into a corner.....

Not surprising that you have seen behaviors like yours backfire. Since you dared to ask, Rolleyes "sock behaviors" are over the top postings that exemplify the behavior of prior members who have been banished for bad behavior, but have created new accounts- so called, "socks". As for accusations of "particularity" and "assumptions" about sock-like behavior, I'll let you sort that out on your own.

What's the consensus about who this is? Anybody?
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#31

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:17 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: I meant nothing about saying "I knew you'd say that"...

Fireball Wrote:It's frenetic, and it's assuming a false sense of familiarity with members...

Agreed. I think it's better if newbies spend a bit of time checking out the "feel"
of our forums, and getting to know the characters and quirks of our members,
before assuming they've known us for years.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#32

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
I was an evangelical and raised my two children in the faith, to the point of home-schooling them (my daughter from 3rd through 8th grade, my son from cradle through 3rd grade). Although the home schooling thing was as much about my first wife's paranoia as it was about religious concerns.

Anyway both of my children were born somehow with far better bullshit filters than I was and theism never "took" with them. When I deconverted they were actually relieved. They did super well in public school (my 2nd wife insisted and I didn't put up any real fight; home schooling is exhausting and in my view inherently problematic with the mixed role of parent and teacher). My 2nd wife had drifted away from actively worshipping the Sky Wizard although she continued to believe in him until her death, so my children were not subjected to church, again to their relief.

To me, when you unpack it, parenting just comes down to modeling the values and behaviors and character traits you want to see in your children, which implies you genuinely possess those things to begin with. I am a kind, decent, honest, loyal, weirdly flawed human being and my children turned out that way as well. Since my first wife was such a spectacularly bad gene donor, my son ended up with a personality disorder common in the children of schizophrenics and it ended up indirectly killing him. My daughter has a touch of narcissism from dear old Mom (who is in an institution now and pretends she never had children), but my daughter is a competent RN and responsible, loving mother of five and is enjoying life, which is all a parent can really hope for (well maybe not the five kids part, but that's her choice).

Church is a common source of community for people but it comes with the price of indoctrination and disordered thinking. School is a common source of community in childhood but it comes with both the costs and benefits of being a conformist and running in packs. But at least there's not an overt religious basis for school-oriented socializing. For my step-children, who I met in their mid-teens, it was centered around academics, where it belongs.

My current / 3rd wife (I make them sound so disposable, they're not, but it's complicated to explain who I'm talking about by this point in life) was always an unbeliever, but has the misconception that atheism = closed mind, so she always allowed her children to explore religion if they so desired. The son never was interested and avoided it like the plague. The daughter had a lengthy flirtation with Presbyterianism but soundly rejected it her senior year in high school and never looked back. My stepson the rabid atheist and almost-anarchist has incredible integrity and is a wonderful human being, if rather hard to get to know -- but once he lets you in, it's a fucking privilege and worth the effort. I put that down to his mother modeling her own version of wonderfulness and supporting him no matter what -- which, again, is what parenting really is. As someone else here said, he knows HOW to think, not WHAT to think.

On the flip side, there's my step-daughter, who is a hateful, insufferable little shit to her mother (borderline personality disorder) and, in important ways, living way below her age level of 27. That's the wild card and the terrifying thing about parenting ... sometimes you can walk on water and have the kid from hell, and sometimes you can be a shit parent and your child grows up to be Not You. Or sometimes things go right and then some form of physical or mental illness or misadventure ruins it all. Hilarity ensues. Your mileage may vary.

Church is no real loss and doesn't help, though.
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#33

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 04:18 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:32 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:19 AM)Fireball Wrote: It's frenetic, and it's assuming a false sense of familiarity with members, which are sock behaviors. I hope to be proven wrong. We always gladly accept genuine people as members.

Ya'll are some particular ones, I will give you that. There seems to be an assumption that I would know what "sock behaviors" are. Dare I ask? I will try to tread lightly seeing that I am new. I have seen behaviors like mine backfire before, so before I paint myself into a corner.....

Not surprising that you have seen behaviors like yours backfire. Since you dared to ask, Rolleyes "sock behaviors" are over the top postings that exemplify the behavior of prior members who have been banished for bad behavior, but have created new accounts- so called, "socks". As for accusations of "particularity" and "assumptions" about sock-like behavior, I'll let you sort that out on your own.

What's the consensus about who this is? Anybody?

Thanks for clarifying. Trust me, I am no sock.  Chuckle I didn't join just to be banned. Would I lie to you?
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#34

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 03:32 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: I have seen behaviors like mine backfire before, so before I paint myself into a corner.....

Where, if I may ask? You seem to be well informed on sock behavior.
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#35

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 07:42 AM)SYZ Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:17 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: I meant nothing about saying "I knew you'd say that"...

Fireball Wrote:It's frenetic, and it's assuming a false sense of familiarity with members...

Agreed. I think it's better if newbies spend a bit of time checking out the "feel"
of our forums, and getting to know the characters and quirks of our members,
before assuming they've known us for years.

I'm sorry. I've been out of the forum game for quite some time and have forgotten the ways. There was clearly an etiquette training that I must have by-passed. I'll lay low and figure out everyone's peculiarities.  Nod
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#36

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 04:18 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:32 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:19 AM)Fireball Wrote: It's frenetic, and it's assuming a false sense of familiarity with members, which are sock behaviors. I hope to be proven wrong. We always gladly accept genuine people as members.

Ya'll are some particular ones, I will give you that. There seems to be an assumption that I would know what "sock behaviors" are. Dare I ask? I will try to tread lightly seeing that I am new. I have seen behaviors like mine backfire before, so before I paint myself into a corner.....

Not surprising that you have seen behaviors like yours backfire. Since you dared to ask, Rolleyes "sock behaviors" are over the top postings that exemplify the behavior of prior members who have been banished for bad behavior, but have created new accounts- so called, "socks". As for accusations of "particularity" and "assumptions" about sock-like behavior, I'll let you sort that out on your own.

What's the consensus about who this is? Anybody?

One word: Clown
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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#37

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 12:52 PM)abaris Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:32 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: I have seen behaviors like mine backfire before, so before I paint myself into a corner.....

Where, if I may ask? You seem to be well informed on sock behavior.

Well, it wasn't sock behavior per se...Truly, the last forum I was involved in was the Fans of Donald Miller Forum, and that was pre-2010. And It wasn't me I was referring to. It was another guy who came on kinda strong and in your face, but in a rude way. So, no, not particularly sock-like in nature; he just rubbed people the wrong way. I have intended no rudeness whatsoever, and honestly do ask for forgiveness for coming off as such. It seems like you (in general) deal with sock accounts a lot. But yeah, seriously, I am not a sock. Big Grin
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#38

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 11:59 AM)mordant Wrote: I was an evangelical and raised my two children in the faith, to the point of home-schooling them (my daughter from 3rd through 8th grade, my son from cradle through 3rd grade). Although the home schooling thing was as much about my first wife's paranoia as it was about religious concerns.

Anyway both of my children were born somehow with far better bullshit filters than I was and theism never "took" with them. When I deconverted they were actually relieved. They did super well in public school (my 2nd wife insisted and I didn't put up any real fight; home schooling is exhausting and in my view inherently problematic with the mixed role of parent and teacher). My 2nd wife had drifted away from actively worshipping the Sky Wizard although she continued to believe in him until her death, so my children were not subjected to church, again to their relief.

To me, when you unpack it, parenting just comes down to modeling the values and behaviors and character traits you want to see in your children, which implies you genuinely possess those things to begin with. I am a kind, decent, honest, loyal, weirdly flawed human being and my children turned out that way as well. Since my first wife was such a spectacularly bad gene donor, my son ended up with a personality disorder common in the children of schizophrenics and it ended up indirectly killing him. My daughter has a touch of narcissism from dear old Mom (who is in an institution now and pretends she never had children), but my daughter is a competent RN and responsible, loving mother of five and is enjoying life, which is all a parent can really hope for (well maybe not the five kids part, but that's her choice).

Church is a common source of community for people but it comes with the price of indoctrination and disordered thinking. School is a common source of community in childhood but it comes with both the costs and benefits of being a conformist and running in packs. But at least there's not an overt religious basis for school-oriented socializing. For my step-children, who I met in their mid-teens, it was centered around academics, where it belongs.

My current / 3rd wife (I make them sound so disposable, they're not, but it's complicated to explain who I'm talking about by this point in life) was always an unbeliever, but has the misconception that atheism = closed mind, so she always allowed her children to explore religion if they so desired. The son never was interested and avoided it like the plague. The daughter had a lengthy flirtation with Presbyterianism but soundly rejected it her senior year in high school and never looked back. My stepson the rabid atheist and almost-anarchist has incredible integrity and is a wonderful human being, if rather hard to get to know -- but once he lets you in, it's a fucking privilege and worth the effort. I put that down to his mother modeling her own version of wonderfulness and supporting him no matter what -- which, again, is what parenting really is. As someone else here said, he knows HOW to think, not WHAT to think.

On the flip side, there's my  step-daughter, who is a hateful, insufferable little shit to her mother (borderline personality disorder) and, in important ways, living way below her age level of 27. That's the wild card and the terrifying thing about parenting ... sometimes you can walk on water and have the kid from hell, and sometimes you can be a shit parent and your child grows up to be Not You. Or sometimes things go right and then some form of physical or mental illness or misadventure ruins it all. Hilarity ensues. Your mileage may vary.

Church is no real loss and doesn't help, though.

Mordant, thank you so much for sharing this and opening up. Since we are adopting, we have no idea how kiddo will ultimately end up. But I guess with biological children you never know either. There is going to be so much intersectionality with regard to our little one; they will be dealing with so many possible issues and will have their fair share of hurdles to jump over. I don't doubt that I'll be a good parent; I think I will be. But regardless of what I/we do, there will always be the unknown variables of how they will react to what is presented to them. I was never asked as a child if I wanted to go to church. Even if I had been, how would that have turned out if I had been given a choice but had no backing if I decided to doubt? With kiddo, we just want to show them the world and let them decide.
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#39

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 01:30 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: ...Mordant, thank you so much for sharing this and opening up. Since we are adopting, we have no idea how kiddo will ultimately end up. But I guess with biological children you never know either

There is going to be so much intersectionality with regard to our little one; they will be dealing with so many possible issues and will have their fair share of hurdles to jump over. I don't doubt that I'll be a good parent; I think I will be. But regardless of what I/we do, there will always be the unknown variables of how they will react to what is presented to them.

I was never asked as a child if I wanted to go to church. Even if I had been, how would that have turned out if I had been given a choice but had no backing if I decided to doubt? With kiddo, we just want to show them the world and let them decide.

Re the highlighted. That is one fucking ugly word salad.
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#40

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 01:09 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: Well, it wasn't sock behavior per se...

I have my own opinion, but we'll see. Winking
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#41

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
I am not a parent, but my parents came from different religious backgrounds, so I learned a lot about that. My mother grew up told that "bad" (not catholic) meant you went to Hell, but she got over that. My Dad was vaguely deist. They agreed "maybe there was something". And I wasn't doctrinated and went atheist. My siblings still had some of the beliefs though, so it wasn't automatic for me. I earned it.
I came to a fork in the road, and I took it!
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#42

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:04 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 01:30 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: ...Mordant, thank you so much for sharing this and opening up. Since we are adopting, we have no idea how kiddo will ultimately end up. But I guess with biological children you never know either

There is going to be so much intersectionality with regard to our little one; they will be dealing with so many possible issues and will have their fair share of hurdles to jump over. I don't doubt that I'll be a good parent; I think I will be. But regardless of what I/we do, there will always be the unknown variables of how they will react to what is presented to them.

I was never asked as a child if I wanted to go to church. Even if I had been, how would that have turned out if I had been given a choice but had no backing if I decided to doubt? With kiddo, we just want to show them the world and let them decide.

Re the highlighted. That is one fucking ugly word salad.

Not everyone is Fitzgerald or Joyce, sadly. But his thoughts on a complex topic are clear and understandable.

Bulldozers too are ugly, but my, don't they get shit done?
Freedom isn't free.
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#43

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:31 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:04 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 01:30 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: ...Mordant, thank you so much for sharing this and opening up. Since we are adopting, we have no idea how kiddo will ultimately end up. But I guess with biological children you never know either

There is going to be so much intersectionality with regard to our little one; they will be dealing with so many possible issues and will have their fair share of hurdles to jump over. I don't doubt that I'll be a good parent; I think I will be. But regardless of what I/we do, there will always be the unknown variables of how they will react to what is presented to them.

I was never asked as a child if I wanted to go to church. Even if I had been, how would that have turned out if I had been given a choice but had no backing if I decided to doubt? With kiddo, we just want to show them the world and let them decide.

Re the highlighted. That is one fucking ugly word salad.

Not everyone is Fitzgerald or Joyce, sadly. But his thoughts on a complex topic are clear and understandable.

Bulldozers too are ugly, but my, don't they get shit done?

Depends on the intent and the skill of the driver... Wink
I came to a fork in the road, and I took it!
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#44

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:07 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 01:09 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: Well, it wasn't sock behavior per se...

I have my own opinion, but we'll see.  Winking

Thank you for adding the positive smiley. Could I ask, what is your honest opinion?
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#45

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:04 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 01:30 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: ...Mordant, thank you so much for sharing this and opening up. Since we are adopting, we have no idea how kiddo will ultimately end up. But I guess with biological children you never know either

There is going to be so much intersectionality with regard to our little one; they will be dealing with so many possible issues and will have their fair share of hurdles to jump over. I don't doubt that I'll be a good parent; I think I will be. But regardless of what I/we do, there will always be the unknown variables of how they will react to what is presented to them.

I was never asked as a child if I wanted to go to church. Even if I had been, how would that have turned out if I had been given a choice but had no backing if I decided to doubt? With kiddo, we just want to show them the world and let them decide.

Re the highlighted. That is one fucking ugly word salad.

It was a rough draft.
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#46

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 03:32 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: Thank you for adding the positive smiley. Could I ask, what is your honest opinion?

You intentionally referred to me in the feminine form of my username the first time you mentioned me. That speaks volumes. I sincerely doubt you were simply being humorous. In fact, according to your initial behavior and how you first responded to many of us, my honest belief is that you are indeed a sock.
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#47

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 02:31 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:04 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 01:30 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: ...Mordant, thank you so much for sharing this and opening up. Since we are adopting, we have no idea how kiddo will ultimately end up. But I guess with biological children you never know either

There is going to be so much intersectionality with regard to our little one; they will be dealing with so many possible issues and will have their fair share of hurdles to jump over. I don't doubt that I'll be a good parent; I think I will be. But regardless of what I/we do, there will always be the unknown variables of how they will react to what is presented to them.

I was never asked as a child if I wanted to go to church. Even if I had been, how would that have turned out if I had been given a choice but had no backing if I decided to doubt? With kiddo, we just want to show them the world and let them decide.

Re the highlighted. That is one fucking ugly word salad.

Not everyone is Fitzgerald or Joyce, sadly. But his thoughts on a complex topic are clear and understandable.

Bulldozers too are ugly, but my, don't they get shit done?

Not trying to win a pulitzer here. Clear and understandable? Mission accomplished. And....who's Joyce Fitzgerald?
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#48

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 12:58 PM)Dom Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 04:18 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:32 AM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote: Ya'll are some particular ones, I will give you that. There seems to be an assumption that I would know what "sock behaviors" are. Dare I ask? I will try to tread lightly seeing that I am new. I have seen behaviors like mine backfire before, so before I paint myself into a corner.....

Not surprising that you have seen behaviors like yours backfire. Since you dared to ask, Rolleyes "sock behaviors" are over the top postings that exemplify the behavior of prior members who have been banished for bad behavior, but have created new accounts- so called, "socks". As for accusations of "particularity" and "assumptions" about sock-like behavior, I'll let you sort that out on your own.

What's the consensus about who this is? Anybody?

One word: Clown

Excellent diagnosis.
Man’s innate yearning for freedom can be suppressed but never destroyed. Totalitarianism cannot renounce violence. If it does, it perishes. Eternal, ceaseless violence, overt or covert, is the basis of totalitarianism. Man does not renounce freedom voluntarily.

Vasily Grossman
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#49

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 03:46 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:31 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:04 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Re the highlighted. That is one fucking ugly word salad.

Not everyone is Fitzgerald or Joyce, sadly. But his thoughts on a complex topic are clear and understandable.

Bulldozers too are ugly, but my, don't they get shit done?

Not trying to win a pulitzer here. Clear and understandable? Mission accomplished. And....who's Joyce Fitzgerald?

I'm guessing you missed the disjunctive "or"? They're two different writers.
Freedom isn't free.
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#50

Are there any Former Christian, Current Atheist Parents out there?
(02-13-2021, 03:53 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 03:46 PM)Josiah Aberhard Wrote:
(02-13-2021, 02:31 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Not everyone is Fitzgerald or Joyce, sadly. But his thoughts on a complex topic are clear and understandable.

Bulldozers too are ugly, but my, don't they get shit done?

Not trying to win a pulitzer here. Clear and understandable? Mission accomplished. And....who's Joyce Fitzgerald?

I'm guessing you missed the disjunctive "or"? They're two different writers.

What are chances that native English speaker did not know that Joyce and Fitzgerald are different writers when even I was aware of it*?


*To my eternal shame I knew that Joyce written Ulisses but I had no idea what Fitzgerald had written.
Man’s innate yearning for freedom can be suppressed but never destroyed. Totalitarianism cannot renounce violence. If it does, it perishes. Eternal, ceaseless violence, overt or covert, is the basis of totalitarianism. Man does not renounce freedom voluntarily.

Vasily Grossman
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