The Spat thread

[abaris]

I don't think it should be all atheist topics as there is more to being an atheist than simply being an atheist.  I like that there are other topics to discuss.  I'm just saying it makes it hard to want to discuss things on here with others when there are constant personal attacks.  It would be nice if people could simply disagree without personal attacks.  I do think it may have an impact on new people who find the site who then become hesitant to respond to any thread given the environment of personal attacks.

Atheism is probably the least important aspect of my life. Some ten years ago, over at AF, I was interested in theist/atheist discussions, but that lost it's appeal pretty fast, since there were always the same tiresome theist arguments and the same atheist replies.

As for people attacking each other constantly, I would say, that's widely exaggerated. It happens, but it doesn't happen that often. Less than on any other board I visited, I would say.

[Bcat]

I don't think it should be all atheist topics as there is more to being an atheist than simply being an atheist.  I like that there are other topics to discuss.  I'm just saying it makes it hard to want to discuss things on here with others when there are constant personal attacks.  It would be nice if people could simply disagree without personal attacks.  I do think it may have an impact on new people who find the site who then become hesitant to respond to any thread given the environment of personal attacks.

Atheism is probably the least important aspect of my life. Some ten years ago, over at AF, I was interested in theist/atheist discussions, but that lost it's appeal pretty fast, since there were always the same tiresome theist arguments and the same atheist replies.

As for people attacking each other constantly, I would say, that's widely exaggerated. It happens, but it doesn't happen that often. Less than on any other board I visited, I would say.

I notice it going on a lot on here.  I think "constant" might have been a bit of an exaggeration on my part so I agree with you there, but it happens more frequently than not on here--at least, imo it does, ymmv.

[Dom]

Atheism is just a trait the majority here shares. It does feel good not to have to worry about being offensive in that regard. Also, we used to have a lot of newbies in the middle of conversion, looking for support. That has pretty much stopped, and that may be due in part to an often toxic atmosphere.

Or maybe it's the times, people have other things to worry about than their atheism or theism. This isn't the only place with too much toxicity, it's the culture of trump that seeped in here. The political threads are the ones with toxicity, the rest of the forum does have a lot of topics that are perfectly friendly.

Hopefully there won't be as many political threads in the next few years, as we wean ourselves from trump shock. Under trump, shit was coming at us so fast and furious, I don't even remember half of it. I can see myself reading about the history of these years and going: "Oh, yeah, that happened too!"

[abaris]

That has pretty much stopped, and that may be due in part to an often toxic atmosphere.

Personally I got the feeling of the atmosphere being less toxic than on the other atheist boards we've been to. I left AF for it turning too toxic back in the day. I never had the same feeling here.

[Bcat]

Atheism is just a trait the majority here shares. It does feel good not to have to worry about being offensive in that regard. Also, we used to have a lot of newbies in the middle of conversion, looking for support. That has pretty much stopped, and that may be due in part to an often toxic atmosphere.

Or maybe it's the times, people have other things to worry about than their atheism or theism. This isn't the only place with too much toxicity, it's the culture of trump that seeped in here. The political threads are the ones with toxicity, the rest of the forum does have a lot of topics that are perfectly friendly.

Hopefully there won't be as many political threads in the next few years, as we wean ourselves from trump shock. Under trump, shit was coming at us so fast and furious, I don't even remember half of it. I can see myself reading about the history of these years and going: "Oh, yeah, that happened too!"

I like reading everyone's differing viewpoints in all the threads--including the political ones.  I've even changed my mind on a few things from reading various posts.  That said, there are many times when I've thought about jumping into various convos only to think better of it due to some members thinking it's okay to insult someone by calling them any variety of names, put downs, etc. simply because they disagree. I know of at least three members, four if you include me, that are no longer posting here anymore because of this very thing.

[Bcat]

That has pretty much stopped, and that may be due in part to an often toxic atmosphere.

Personally I got the feeling of the atmosphere being less toxic than on the other atheist boards we've been to. I left AF for it turning too toxic back in the day. I never had the same feeling here.

I think people have different levels of tolerance for things.

[Dom]

Atheism is just a trait the majority here shares. It does feel good not to have to worry about being offensive in that regard. Also, we used to have a lot of newbies in the middle of conversion, looking for support. That has pretty much stopped, and that may be due in part to an often toxic atmosphere.

Or maybe it's the times, people have other things to worry about than their atheism or theism. This isn't the only place with too much toxicity, it's the culture of trump that seeped in here. The political threads are the ones with toxicity, the rest of the forum does have a lot of topics that are perfectly friendly.

Hopefully there won't be as many political threads in the next few years, as we wean ourselves from trump shock. Under trump, shit was coming at us so fast and furious, I don't even remember half of it. I can see myself reading about the history of these years and going: "Oh, yeah, that happened too!"

I like reading everyone's differing viewpoints in all the threads--including the political ones.  I've even changed my mind on a few things from reading various posts.  That said, there are many times when I've thought about jumping into various convos only to think better of it due to some members thinking it's okay to insult someone by calling them any variety of names, put downs, etc. simply because they disagree. I know of at least three members, four if you include me, that are no longer posting here anymore because of this very thing.

Political divisions run deep these days. Divided we stand.

A lot of existential angst mixed in there, too.

The thing is, we don't really want to pick one side or another as a forum, there should be room for all our different view points. Otherwise, what's the point of talking? Just wringing our hands and lamenting?

So, it gets fiery sometimes. That's to be expected among humans, and it's ok, too.

What we do need to get under control is the continuation of these spats between two for pages in the middle of a conversation among many. 

That's why I figure we allow combatants a space to get things off their chest and vent, instead of having it permeate the forum. I get that people are stressed and need to vent. It can be cathartic to vent freely. Sometimes venting can be crying, and sometimes it can be expression of anger. It is only human to need to do either, or both.

[Dancefortwo]

But when I go "off topic" I'm usually doing it to be humorous. I don't think I do the "off-topic-attack" thing.

I don't notice you doing the "off topic attack thing."  I think you're one of the nicer members here 

One needs to understand that since the November presidential election we had a president who was trying to overturn a legal election and subvert the basics of democracy itself and change the course of our history.  A tumultuous event like this and the man behind it is going to elicit a lot of very strong opinions.

I'm generally a good natured person and find humor in many aspects of life but this country means a lot to me, so those who excuse the insurrection and the last 4 years of presidential abuse on our democracy aren't going to be too well thought of by myself and several others forum members here.  Sorry, but I just can't make nice with one or two forum members who shrugged off Jan 6, 2021.

[Bcat]

Atheism is just a trait the majority here shares. It does feel good not to have to worry about being offensive in that regard. Also, we used to have a lot of newbies in the middle of conversion, looking for support. That has pretty much stopped, and that may be due in part to an often toxic atmosphere.

Or maybe it's the times, people have other things to worry about than their atheism or theism. This isn't the only place with too much toxicity, it's the culture of trump that seeped in here. The political threads are the ones with toxicity, the rest of the forum does have a lot of topics that are perfectly friendly.

Hopefully there won't be as many political threads in the next few years, as we wean ourselves from trump shock. Under trump, shit was coming at us so fast and furious, I don't even remember half of it. I can see myself reading about the history of these years and going: "Oh, yeah, that happened too!"

I like reading everyone's differing viewpoints in all the threads--including the political ones.  I've even changed my mind on a few things from reading various posts.  That said, there are many times when I've thought about jumping into various convos only to think better of it due to some members thinking it's okay to insult someone by calling them any variety of names, put downs, etc. simply because they disagree. I know of at least three members, four if you include me, that are no longer posting here anymore because of this very thing.

Political divisions run deep these days. Divided we stand.

A lot of existential angst mixed in there, too.

The thing is, we don't really want to pick one side or another as a forum, there should be room for all our different view points. Otherwise, what's the point of talking? Just wringing our hands and lamenting?

So, it gets fiery sometimes. That's to be expected among humans, and it's ok, too.

What we do need to get under control is the continuation of these spats between two for pages in the middle of a conversation among many. 

That's why I figure we allow combatants a space to get things off their chest and vent, instead of having it permeate the forum. I get that people are stressed and need to vent. It can be cathartic to vent freely. Sometimes venting can be crying, and sometimes it can be expression of anger. It is only human to need to do either, or both.

Agreed, I think it's important to vent, cry, fiercely debate, express anger...whatever suits the moment.  Imo, all of that can be done without childish insults. That's my only point.  But as I say, everyone has a different tolerance level for things.  I think you'll attract to the forum the people who are cool with that and lose members who are not. But that's the same with anything.  Not everything is for every person, not every forum is for every person.  I just know that type of environment is not for me.  And that's okay.  I wish you all well and hope you enjoy your time on the forum

[abaris]

But as I say, everyone has a different tolerance level for things.  I think you'll attract to the forum the people who are cool with that and lose members who are not. But that's the same with anything.  Not everything is for every person, not every forum is for every person.  I just know that type of environment is not for me.  And that's okay.   I wish you all well and hope you enjoy your time on the forum

You're certainly right. But what's the alternative? Back on AF, I used to say, they were overregulating the regulations. Meaning that they introduced a new forum rule every other week and it was so hard to keep up with all of them that it wasn't fun anymore.

I'd rather have this space, where you are mostly free to express yourself, without carrying a rulebook with you. And, by the way, the insults may seem to be many, but it's mostly a couple of members being at each others throats for pages, which makes it seem to go viral, while you don't see the ones refraining to join in.

[Bcat]

But when I go "off topic" I'm usually doing it to be humorous. I don't think I do the "off-topic-attack" thing.

I don't notice you doing the "off topic attack thing."  I think you're one of the nicer members here 

One needs to understand that since the November presidential election we had a president who was trying to overturn a legal election and subvert the basics of democracy itself and change the course of our history.  A tumultuous event like this and the man behind it is going to elicit a lot of very strong opinions.

I'm generally a good natured person and find humor in many aspects of life but this country means a lot to me, so those who excuse the insurrection and the last 4 years of presidential abuse on our democracy aren't going to be too well thought of by myself and several others forum members here.  Sorry, but I just can't make nice with one or two forum members who shrugged off Jan 6, 2021.

I wasn't saying that I think you have to "make nice" with anybody or not voice your opinions vehemently.  That's not what I was saying at all.  I was talking specifically about people insulting others by calling them cunts, etc. etc. when they disagree.  I just didn't understand the need to add insults on at the end when someone disagrees.  It actually makes the person not agreeing with you disagree with you even more because they dig their heels into their position even more and then the topic gets off topic and goes into full on insult territory.

[Bcat]

But as I say, everyone has a different tolerance level for things.  I think you'll attract to the forum the people who are cool with that and lose members who are not. But that's the same with anything.  Not everything is for every person, not every forum is for every person.  I just know that type of environment is not for me.  And that's okay.   I wish you all well and hope you enjoy your time on the forum

You're certainly right. But what's the alternative? Back on AF, I used to say, they were overregulating the regulations. Meaning that they introduced a new forum rule every other week and it was so hard to keep up with all of them that it wasn't fun anymore.

I'd rather have this space, where you are mostly free to express yourself, without carrying a rulebook with you. And, by the way, the insults may seem to be many, but it's mostly a couple of members being at each others throats for pages, which makes it seem to go viral, while you don't see the ones refraining to join in.

I understand your, the mods, and other members positions.  Anyway, I appreciate you all letting me voice my issues with not liking the insult thing. Back to the Spat Thread! Sorry for derailing a bit.  

[Dom]

I don't notice you doing the "off topic attack thing."  I think you're one of the nicer members here 

One needs to understand that since the November presidential election we had a president who was trying to overturn a legal election and subvert the basics of democracy itself and change the course of our history.  A tumultuous event like this and the man behind it is going to elicit a lot of very strong opinions.

I'm generally a good natured person and find humor in many aspects of life but this country means a lot to me, so those who excuse the insurrection and the last 4 years of presidential abuse on our democracy aren't going to be too well thought of by myself and several others forum members here.  Sorry, but I just can't make nice with one or two forum members who shrugged off Jan 6, 2021.

I wasn't saying that I think you have to "make nice" with anybody or not voice your opinions vehemently.  That's not what I was saying at all.  I was talking specifically about people insulting others by calling them cunts, etc. etc. when they disagree.  I just didn't understand the need to add insults on at the end when someone disagrees.  It actually makes the person not agreeing with you disagree with you even more because they dig their heels into their position even more and then the topic gets off topic and goes into full on insult territory.

For some people it's normal to talk in this fashion. The military and police I have been around used all kinds of words with each other. 

If you look at it as a part of normal vocabulary, as these groups did, it doesn't appear so hostile anymore. It's just words that fit the sentiment.

Others however, when using such words, do mean to insult and provoke.

How is anyone going to fairly pluck that apart?

[abaris]

Sorry for derailing a bit.  

It's there to prevent other threads from being derailed, so, by all means, keep derailing.

[Aliza]

But as I say, everyone has a different tolerance level for things.  I think you'll attract to the forum the people who are cool with that and lose members who are not. But that's the same with anything.  Not everything is for every person, not every forum is for every person.  I just know that type of environment is not for me.  And that's okay.   I wish you all well and hope you enjoy your time on the forum

You're certainly right. But what's the alternative? Back on AF, I used to say, they were overregulating the regulations. Meaning that they introduced a new forum rule every other week and it was so hard to keep up with all of them that it wasn't fun anymore.

I'd rather have this space, where you are mostly free to express yourself, without carrying a rulebook with you. And, by the way, the insults may seem to be many, but it's mostly a couple of members being at each others throats for pages, which makes it seem to go viral, while you don't see the ones refraining to join in.

Good point with the rulebook thing. The last thing we want to do is add a new rule every time someone does something we didn't anticipate. Everyone needs to "read the room" and use common sense when posting so we can maintain an environment where we're comfortable to be ourselves.

[Bcat]

One needs to understand that since the November presidential election we had a president who was trying to overturn a legal election and subvert the basics of democracy itself and change the course of our history.  A tumultuous event like this and the man behind it is going to elicit a lot of very strong opinions.

I'm generally a good natured person and find humor in many aspects of life but this country means a lot to me, so those who excuse the insurrection and the last 4 years of presidential abuse on our democracy aren't going to be too well thought of by myself and several others forum members here.  Sorry, but I just can't make nice with one or two forum members who shrugged off Jan 6, 2021.

I wasn't saying that I think you have to "make nice" with anybody or not voice your opinions vehemently.  That's not what I was saying at all.  I was talking specifically about people insulting others by calling them cunts, etc. etc. when they disagree.  I just didn't understand the need to add insults on at the end when someone disagrees.  It actually makes the person not agreeing with you disagree with you even more because they dig their heels into their position even more and then the topic gets off topic and goes into full on insult territory.

For some people it's normal to talk in this fashion. The military and police I have been around used all kinds of words with each other. 

If you look at it as a part of normal vocabulary, as these groups did, it doesn't appear so hostile anymore. It's just words that fit the sentiment.

Others however, when using such words, do mean to insult and provoke.

How is anyone going to fairly pluck that apart?

This is true, however tone can often be hard to determine on the Internet because there's only typed words and no facial expressions or voice intonation to go with it.  Additionally, since the posts that involve the insults are usually heated, imo, it's hard to assume they're simply someone's vocabulary and not a direct insult since it's usually hurled with such vitriol.  Anyway, as I say this is just my opinion.  If everyone else is okay with this type of environment, then I say keep on keepin' on   I just know it's not for me and so I'll just look for another place to spend my time that is a better fit for me.  So hugs to all, bye! 

[SYZ]

I've noted on several lengthy and on-topic threads of late that there are a handful
of members who—in the middle of the thread—derail it by starting a back and forth
put-down of each other.  Neither participant it seems is prepared to cease and desist,
and allow the flow of the thread to continue unabated.     Put simply, it's puerile.



We could possibly make more use of this emoji...        

[Mad Hatter]

I've noted on several lengthy and on-topic threads of late that there are a handful
of members who—in the middle of the thread—derail it by starting a back and forth
put-down of each other.  Neither participant it seems is prepared to cease and desist,
and allow the flow of the thread to continue unabated.     Put simply, it's puerile.



We could possibly make more use of this emoji...        

Hence this spat thread.

[Mad Hatter]

I wasn't saying that I think you have to "make nice" with anybody or not voice your opinions vehemently.  That's not what I was saying at all.  I was talking specifically about people insulting others by calling them cunts, etc. etc. when they disagree.  I just didn't understand the need to add insults on at the end when someone disagrees.  It actually makes the person not agreeing with you disagree with you even more because they dig their heels into their position even more and then the topic gets off topic and goes into full on insult territory.

For some people it's normal to talk in this fashion. The military and police I have been around used all kinds of words with each other. 

If you look at it as a part of normal vocabulary, as these groups did, it doesn't appear so hostile anymore. It's just words that fit the sentiment.

Others however, when using such words, do mean to insult and provoke.

How is anyone going to fairly pluck that apart?

This is true, however tone can often be hard to determine on the Internet because there's only typed words and no facial expressions or voice intonation to go with it.  Additionally, since the posts that involve the insults are usually heated, imo, it's hard to assume they're simply someone's vocabulary and not a direct insult since it's usually hurled with such vitriol.  Anyway, as I say this is just my opinion.   If everyone else is okay with this type of environment, then I say keep on keepin' on   I just know it's not for me and so I'll just look for another place to spend my time that is a better fit for me.  So hugs to all, bye! 

There's other threads on this site where the environment is much more relaxed and casual. Members who you've seen go at each other on the political threads seem to get along well with each other on some of the more relaxed threads that don't spark heated discussions. Try the 'Post a pic' thread, or the Hobby thread. The History threads can be pretty relaxed too.

[Dom]

I've noted on several lengthy and on-topic threads of late that there are a handful
of members who—in the middle of the thread—derail it by starting a back and forth
put-down of each other.  Neither participant it seems is prepared to cease and desist,
and allow the flow of the thread to continue unabated.     Put simply, it's puerile.



We could possibly make more use of this emoji...        

We have a new emoji for that:



The issue is not a couple of posts off the rail, it's not letting go...

[jerry mcmasters]

Not sure the horse isn't enjoying that treatment tho...

[Dom]

For some people it's normal to talk in this fashion. The military and police I have been around used all kinds of words with each other. 

If you look at it as a part of normal vocabulary, as these groups did, it doesn't appear so hostile anymore. It's just words that fit the sentiment.

Others however, when using such words, do mean to insult and provoke.

How is anyone going to fairly pluck that apart?

This is true, however tone can often be hard to determine on the Internet because there's only typed words and no facial expressions or voice intonation to go with it.  Additionally, since the posts that involve the insults are usually heated, imo, it's hard to assume they're simply someone's vocabulary and not a direct insult since it's usually hurled with such vitriol.  Anyway, as I say this is just my opinion.   If everyone else is okay with this type of environment, then I say keep on keepin' on   I just know it's not for me and so I'll just look for another place to spend my time that is a better fit for me.  So hugs to all, bye! 

There's other threads on this site where the environment is much more relaxed and casual. Members who you've seen go at each other on the political threads seem to get along well with each other on some of the more relaxed threads that don't spark heated discussions. Try the 'Post a pic' thread, or the Hobby thread. The History threads can be pretty relaxed too.

And when one of us meets misfortune, we are all there for support. Regardless of other interactions.

I once ran a professional message board that strictly forbid any ad hominems. "You called Bobby an asshole? Hit the road, Jack!". and the hammer came down.

The environment was more pleasant, but I noticed that no real bonds were formed either. There were a number of cliques. And a lot of passive aggressive stuff.  

It didn't actually change the dynamics, only the outer looks. 

I do like this format better, despite disliking ad hominems. It is more of a reflection of the real world, and it makes for better relationships when the chips fall. As much as some people yell at each other, they respect and care about each other, too. 

Probably everyone knows couples that fight constantly and yet have a deep bond with each other. Personally, I have never understood that, but it's a thing.

[Dancefortwo]

I don't notice you doing the "off topic attack thing."  I think you're one of the nicer members here 

One needs to understand that since the November presidential election we had a president who was trying to overturn a legal election and subvert the basics of democracy itself and change the course of our history.  A tumultuous event like this and the man behind it is going to elicit a lot of very strong opinions.

I'm generally a good natured person and find humor in many aspects of life but this country means a lot to me, so those who excuse the insurrection and the last 4 years of presidential abuse on our democracy aren't going to be too well thought of by myself and several others forum members here.  Sorry, but I just can't make nice with one or two forum members who shrugged off Jan 6, 2021.

I wasn't saying that I think you have to "make nice" with anybody or not voice your opinions vehemently.  That's not what I was saying at all.  I was talking specifically about people insulting others by calling them cunts, etc. etc. when they disagree.  I just didn't understand the need to add insults on at the end when someone disagrees.  It actually makes the person not agreeing with you disagree with you even more because they dig their heels into their position even more and then the topic gets off topic and goes into full on insult territory.

I was talking specifically about people insulting others by calling them cunts, etc. etc. when they disagree.  I just didn't understand the need to add insults on at the end when someone disagrees.

Well, when the very foundation of democracy is at stake and an argument has been presented infinite times, backed by links, quotes and detailed history and the opponant continually ignores this apporach, then yeah,  it finally comes down to a few choice expletives.  Although, I don't think I've ever used the word "cunt" but I plead guilty to recently calling someone a "prick".

I'm not going to call someone a "prick" if we're discussing almost any other subject, even religion, and the word doesn't come easily to me.  But I'm highly insensed by someone who has an almost supercilious, cavaliar attitude towards a leader who set out to undermine the foundation of democracy and attacked the govenrnment itself - and then that person dismisses every argument you present.  Sorry, but after many months of posts, it finally comes down to them being a "prick".

[Aliza]

I once ran a professional message board that strictly forbid any ad hominems. "You called Bobby an asshole? Hit the road, Jack!". and the hammer came down.

Good grief is that stifling. Bunch of namby pambies. 

[Dānu]