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Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
#1

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
It seems that the EU court has upheld a ban on all slaughter of animals without the animal being pre-stunned. This effectively makes halal and kosher slaughter method illegal as the animal must be "intact" before slaughter and stunning them is considered as "damaging" the animal. I personnaly think it's a reasonnable decision. Of course, I don't highl value religious ritual in food preperation and I do value more highly the idea of affording the most painless death reasonnably possible to the animals we have raised for slaughter. I don't think it strictly prevents the practice of those religion since eating meat isn't mandatory to those faith and not respecting scrupulously the requirements of halal and kosher practice doesn't make you less Jew or Muslim in my opinion. Not every one of them needs to be highly practicing to be considered as such. Of course, jewish and muslim organisation are deeply concerned and opposed to such a ban stating that it impeeds their freedom of religion and a clear sign of antisemitism and islamophobia.

What do you think?
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#2

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
Religious nuts can go fuck themselves - preferably with something sharp and unpleasant - for all I care. Animals suffering less is something far more important than tribal taboos and shitty mythology.
Man’s innate yearning for freedom can be suppressed but never destroyed. Totalitarianism cannot renounce violence. If it does, it perishes. Eternal, ceaseless violence, overt or covert, is the basis of totalitarianism. Man does not renounce freedom voluntarily.

Vasily Grossman
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#3

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
The EU is right. Humane slaughter trumps religious faith, as does civil law.
Freedom isn't free.
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#4

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
The religitards will be shrieking in outrage over this one.

How long until some moron likens it to the "holocaust?"
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#5

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
Every religious demand for exemption from the prevailing civil zeitgeist and lawfulness in the cause of religious "liberty" if granted stifles far more liberty than it enables because the "liberty" enabled has as its direct goal the disablement of the larger social liberty.  So, as Szuchow so eloquently says, Fuck 'em.
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#6

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
I will just focus on the fact that all parties are aiming for the animal to die as humanely as possible. That hasn't always been the goal for all groups of people.

The evidence to support one argument over another about how that is acheived isn't very compelling to me.
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#7

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-20-2020, 06:53 PM)epronovost Wrote: It seems that the EU court has upheld a ban on all slaughter of animals without the animal being pre-stunned. This effectively makes halal and kosher slaughter method illegal as the animal must be "intact" before slaughter and stunning them is considered as "damaging" the animal. I personnaly think it's a reasonnable decision. Of course, I don't highl value religious ritual in food preperation and I do value more highly the idea of affording the most painless death reasonnably possible to the animals we have raised for slaughter. I don't think it strictly prevents the practice of those religion since eating meat isn't mandatory to those faith and not respecting scrupulously the requirements of halal and kosher practice doesn't make you less Jew or Muslim in my opinion. Not every one of them needs to be highly practicing to be considered as such. Of course, jewish and muslim organisation are deeply concerned and opposed to such a ban stating that it impeeds their freedom of religion and a clear sign of antisemitism and islamophobia.

What do you think?

It is absolutely imperative to do it the way the ancient desert dwellers said how they did it. 
The creator of 600 sextillion stars gets *really* pissed off when they chop up the sheeps the wrong way.
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#8

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 02:28 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: It is absolutely imperative to do it the way the ancient desert dwellers said how they did it. 
The creator of 600 sextillion stars gets *really* pissed off when they chop up the sheeps the wrong way.

Don't choke the chicken!
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#9

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
Looking forward to the EU banning poly-blend clothing. I might even move, for that.
Freedom isn't free.
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#10

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
Justaminute   The whole point of having cake is to eat it! 
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#11

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 02:28 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: It is absolutely imperative to do it the way the ancient desert dwellers said how they did it. 
The creator of 600 sextillion stars gets *really* pissed off when they chop up the sheeps the wrong way.

What reason did the desert dwellers provide for doing it that way?
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#12

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-20-2020, 06:53 PM)epronovost Wrote: It seems that the EU court has upheld a ban on all slaughter of animals without the animal being pre-stunned. This effectively makes halal and kosher slaughter method illegal as the animal must be "intact" before slaughter and stunning them is considered as "damaging" the animal. I personnaly think it's a reasonnable decision. Of course, I don't highl value religious ritual in food preperation and I do value more highly the idea of affording the most painless death reasonnably possible to the animals we have raised for slaughter. I don't think it strictly prevents the practice of those religion since eating meat isn't mandatory to those faith and not respecting scrupulously the requirements of halal and kosher practice doesn't make you less Jew or Muslim in my opinion. Not every one of them needs to be highly practicing to be considered as such. Of course, jewish and muslim organisation are deeply concerned and opposed to such a ban stating that it impeeds their freedom of religion and a clear sign of antisemitism and islamophobia.

What do you think?

The slaughtering method that simply involves slitting the throat of an animal I personally don't consider inhumane. However the rituals that are found in India and other places where the animal is intentionally made to suffer and, well, scream as loud as it can I do find disturbing - however that does not describe Kosher/Halal slaughter.

I would view such a ban as religious discrimination against allowing Jews and Muslims to practise their religions peacefully. Your comment about eating meat being option is ridiculous - by the vast overwhelming majority opinion of dieticians, qualified nutritionists, and doctors - meat is an essential part of the diet. Recently a relative of mine (well not directly related) who had been veterinarian for several years developed chronic pain in his 20's. He went and saw his doctor, his doctor told him one of them causes of his pain is his diet as protein repairs muscle damage, and meat is a better source of protein. He followed his doctor's advice, and now he eats a healthier diet.
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#13

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 05:25 AM)Aractus Wrote:
(12-20-2020, 06:53 PM)epronovost Wrote: It seems that the EU court has upheld a ban on all slaughter of animals without the animal being pre-stunned. This effectively makes halal and kosher slaughter method illegal as the animal must be "intact" before slaughter and stunning them is considered as "damaging" the animal. I personnaly think it's a reasonnable decision. Of course, I don't highl value religious ritual in food preperation and I do value more highly the idea of affording the most painless death reasonnably possible to the animals we have raised for slaughter. I don't think it strictly prevents the practice of those religion since eating meat isn't mandatory to those faith and not respecting scrupulously the requirements of halal and kosher practice doesn't make you less Jew or Muslim in my opinion. Not every one of them needs to be highly practicing to be considered as such. Of course, jewish and muslim organisation are deeply concerned and opposed to such a ban stating that it impeeds their freedom of religion and a clear sign of antisemitism and islamophobia.

What do you think?

The slaughtering method that simply involves slitting the throat of an animal I personally don't consider inhumane. However the rituals that are found in India and other places where the animal is intentionally made to suffer and, well, scream as loud as it can I do find disturbing - however that does not describe Kosher/Halal slaughter.

I would view such a ban as religious discrimination against allowing Jews and Muslims to practise their religions peacefully. Your comment about eating meat being option is ridiculous - by the vast overwhelming majority opinion of dieticians, qualified nutritionists, and doctors - meat is an essential part of the diet. Recently a relative of mine (well not directly related) who had been veterinarian for several years developed chronic pain in his 20's. He went and saw his doctor, his doctor told him one of them causes of his pain is his diet as protein repairs muscle damage, and meat is a better source of protein. He followed his doctor's advice, and now he eats a healthier diet.

I used to be a veteraniarian, but I found they were too dry, so I stopped eating them. 
There are ways of replacing meat protein without eating meat.
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#14

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 04:59 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(12-21-2020, 02:28 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: It is absolutely imperative to do it the way the ancient desert dwellers said how they did it. 
The creator of 600 sextillion stars gets *really* pissed off when they chop up the sheeps the wrong way.

What reason did the desert dwellers provide for doing it that way?

I'd have to look it up. 
The dietary practices were shared by the entire Near East. 
They got enshrined in a few religions. 
Religion sanctions culture, (not culture sanctions religion).
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#15

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 04:59 AM)Aliza Wrote: What reason did the desert dwellers provide for doing it that way?

Probably to make slaughtering more humane for the animals and making setting up a "best practice" standard. Of course, back in the days they had no such thing as safe and easy way to render an animal unconscious. Butchering practice in Europe basically involved a dog pinning the animal down while you slit its throat. It certainly was messy and probably not too fun to do to an animal you raised and care for.
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#16

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 05:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: There are ways of replacing meat protein without eating meat.

You are mistaken. And I think we can safely say we've seen very clear evidence of this now. Plants come with lectins, all plants have them. We still do not know very much about most lectins, but what we do know is they have negative effects - and sometimes more so in certain people compared to others. The negative effects I'm talking range from leaching out nutrients, that is making them non-bioavailable, to causing death as a deadly poison. Ricin for example is a lectin that causes death as popularised in Breaking Bad. So almost all plant food, if not all, has lectins in it that bind to certain nutrients that we need and make them unavailable for the human body to absorb. In the best-case scenario they are neutral - but even a “neutral lectin” can be negative for certain people if they lack the enzyme that removes it from a nutrient they need. This is what we'd expect I might add from evolution - we've evolved to get protein and other essential nutrients through animal foods, not through plants. On the other hand we've also evolved to get certain nutrients from plants - which means that biologically you'd expect to see at the molecular level there are enzymes that break apart the lectins that bind to the plant nutrients we want, like say Vitamin C. But as for essential amino acids, all the evidence would suggest that most of them at least we have a much harder time absorbing from plants, and it is without question that certain people do lack the enzymes to get certain nutrients that “most people” can get from a plant-based food, or for that matter as is the case with lactase enzyme, the enzymes needed to digest and absorb animal-based nutrients.
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#17

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 07:02 AM)Aractus Wrote:
(12-21-2020, 05:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: There are ways of replacing meat protein without eating meat.

You are mistaken. And I think we can safely say we've seen very clear evidence of this now. Plants come with lectins, all plants have them. We still do not know very much about most lectins, but what we do know is they have negative effects - and sometimes more so in certain people compared to others. The negative effects I'm talking range from leaching out nutrients, that is making them non-bioavailable, to causing death as a deadly poison. Ricin for example is a lectin that causes death as popularised in Breaking Bad. So almost all plant food, if not all, has lectins in it that bind to certain nutrients that we need and make them unavailable for the human body to absorb. In the best-case scenario they are neutral - but even a “neutral lectin” can be negative for certain people if they lack the enzyme that removes it from a nutrient they need. This is what we'd expect I might add from evolution - we've evolved to get protein and other essential nutrients through animal foods, not through plants. On the other hand we've also evolved to get certain nutrients from plants - which means that biologically you'd expect to see at the molecular level there are enzymes that break apart the lectins that bind to the plant nutrients we want, like say Vitamin C. But as for essential amino acids, all the evidence would suggest that most of them at least we have a much harder time absorbing from plants, and it is without question that certain people do lack the enzymes to get certain nutrients that “most people” can get from a plant-based food, or for that matter as is the case with lactase enzyme, the enzymes needed to digest and absorb animal-based nutrients.

bla bla bla, and no references. Oh wait, you did have a reference. You saw a movie once, called "Breaking bad".
Ah yes, yet another subject you think you are an expert on. 
Post your references or STFU ... or maybe how about, both.
Your examples are shit, and once again, you have no clue what you're talking about.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/ess...and-intake
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discu...ting-them/
Ubnfortunately for you, The Mayo Cliinic says you're full of crap.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifes...t-20046446
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#18

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 09:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(12-21-2020, 07:02 AM)Aractus Wrote:
(12-21-2020, 05:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: There are ways of replacing meat protein without eating meat.

You are mistaken. And I think we can safely say we've seen very clear evidence of this now. Plants come with lectins, all plants have them. We still do not know very much about most lectins, but what we do know is they have negative effects - and sometimes more so in certain people compared to others. The negative effects I'm talking range from leaching out nutrients, that is making them non-bioavailable, to causing death as a deadly poison. Ricin for example is a lectin that causes death as popularised in Breaking Bad. So almost all plant food, if not all, has lectins in it that bind to certain nutrients that we need and make them unavailable for the human body to absorb. In the best-case scenario they are neutral - but even a “neutral lectin” can be negative for certain people if they lack the enzyme that removes it from a nutrient they need. This is what we'd expect I might add from evolution - we've evolved to get protein and other essential nutrients through animal foods, not through plants. On the other hand we've also evolved to get certain nutrients from plants - which means that biologically you'd expect to see at the molecular level there are enzymes that break apart the lectins that bind to the plant nutrients we want, like say Vitamin C. But as for essential amino acids, all the evidence would suggest that most of them at least we have a much harder time absorbing from plants, and it is without question that certain people do lack the enzymes to get certain nutrients that “most people” can get from a plant-based food, or for that matter as is the case with lactase enzyme, the enzymes needed to digest and absorb animal-based nutrients.

bla bla bla, and no references. Oh wait, you did have a reference. You saw a movie once, called "Breaking bad".
Ah yes, yet another subject you think you are an expert on. 
Post your references or STFU ... or maybe how about, both.
Your examples are shit, and once again, you have no clue what you're talking about.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/ess...and-intake
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discu...ting-them/
Ubnfortunately for you, The Mayo Cliinic says you're full of crap.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifes...t-20046446

This is really not the place for this conversation, it has nothing to do with humane slaughtering. I am on a low carb diet and thrive health wise since I switched to it. I eat mostly non-processed meat and fresh vegetables, and my blood sugar is normal now and no more hypertension, two life savers. I also enjoy the flavors of natural food a lot more. Been eating like that for a couple of years now and am so much the better for it. There are many food theories, but high carb diets are definitely not what they have been cracked up to be for decades. We find out new cause and effect for food related issues all the time.

Now back to our programming. I am all for making death pleasant and peaceful for animals (and people). Having your throat slit is not peaceful. Pain and adrenalin shoot through the body, and apart from the humane factor, I have never thought ingesting animal adrenalin was a good idea. Stunning works. What else works is one good shot close up with a well placed gun. The latter may be acceptable for kosher and halal, as it doesn't interfere with the animal's "integrity".
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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#19

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
Aractus Wrote:You are mistaken. And I think we can safely say we've seen very clear evidence of this now. Plants come with lectins, all plants have them...

[major snip]

...it is without question that certain people do lack the enzymes to get certain nutrients that “most people” can get from a plant-based food, or for that matter as is the case with lactase enzyme, the enzymes needed to digest and absorb animal-based nutrients.

And yet another wall of totally off-topic, copy-pasta rambling by Dopey Aractus, our resident know-it-all.

Apparently he's now an acknowledged expert on human nutrition?         Facepalm
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#20

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
Okay... as we know, Halal food laws are based on interpretation of the Quran, the Muslim scripture.

We also know that the Quran is simply an anachronistic, unevidenced collection of fantasy and fables,
superstitions, half-truths, and blatant lies, dating back some 1,400 years, and cobbled together by a
disparate, ill-educated group of scribes over a 23-year period—as Muhammad wasn't educated enough
in order to write it himself.

So... we can safely dismiss anything claimed in the Quran as having zero relevance in an enlightened
21st century, particularly with reference to the painful and unnecessary killing of sentient animals.

Halal slaughter in overseas abattoirs often does not include pre-slaughter stunning, which is the key
difference here in Australia and many other countries. The vast majority of halal slaughter in Australia
(including at export abattoirs) complies with standard slaughter practice where all animals are stunned
prior to slaughter. The only difference with halal slaughter is that a reversible stunning method is used,
while conventional humane slaughter may use the favoured irreversible stunning method.

As of 2020 there are 9 abattoirs here in Australia which have approval to conduct slaughter without
prior stunning, in three different states: New South Wales—2 abattoirs; South Australia—3 abattoirs;    
Victoria—4 abattoirs.  As far as I'm concerned, that's nine too many, and nine that need shutting down.

Slaughtering an animal while fully conscious requires additional handling and restraint and means that
the animal will experience pain associated with the throat cut and subsequent bleeding out. Exacerbating
this is the fact that cattle have duplicate blood supplies to the brain, with one at the back of the neck,
and running along the vertebrae.

And of course we mustn't ignore this barbaric practice carried out also for Kosher meats either.  It's just
as inhumane and just as unnecessary in any humanitarian society.  That we in Australia still allow both
of these religious killing rituals to be performed is a black mark against all of us.  But then we all know
that practising Muslims and Jews don't really give two fucks.

—And for any other Aussies here, you can present
your concerns to the Federal Minister for Agriculture,
David Littleproud MP:

PO Box 6022
House of Representatives
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600

Phone: (02) 6277 7190, or Email: Minister.Littleproud@agriculture.gov.au
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#21

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
There's something funny going on there.
When I was a chef, all the meat was halal certified.
I think there must be a certification that only involves prayer.
I even worked at one of the abattoirs that I later dealt with and all the animals there were getting killed with a metal rod to the brain, some sort of pressurised gun.
Unless they changed the rules after I left.
Down the road I was working in a piggery where they gassed the animals and then cut their throats.
I was on the kill room floor and I saw a few animals wake up before their throats were cut and it wasn't pretty.
For starters, they're hanging by a metal hook that seems to be going through the achilles tendon... not nice to wake up to.
But some would escape before they were hooked up and would be chased down by boners with knives.
You could hear them screaming in terror and then in pain.
And then you get used to it.
I've worked in places with more inhumane practices...like for-profit nursing homes.
Ok, I'm just waffling on now. :-)
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#22

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 02:23 PM)Little Lunch Wrote: I even worked at one of the abattoirs that I later dealt with and all the animals there were getting killed with a metal rod to the brain, some sort of pressurised gun...

Probably a pneumatic captive bolt device...

[Image: 4044005-IMG-300x300.jpg]
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#23

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-21-2020, 04:57 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(12-21-2020, 02:23 PM)Little Lunch Wrote: I even worked at one of the abattoirs that I later dealt with and all the animals there were getting killed with a metal rod to the brain, some sort of pressurised gun...

Probably a pneumatic captive bolt device...

[Image: 4044005-IMG-300x300.jpg]
That reminds me of Javier Bardem as the serial killer in No Country for Old Men. He used one of those devices connected to a tank of compressed air, to kill a random victim. Because it was an unfamiliar device, and Bardem's character was posing as a policeman, the person meekly submitted to getting a rod driven into his brain between his eyes during what he thought was a traffic stop.
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#24

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
(12-22-2020, 12:21 AM)mordant Wrote:
(12-21-2020, 04:57 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(12-21-2020, 02:23 PM)Little Lunch Wrote: I even worked at one of the abattoirs that I later dealt with and all the animals there were getting killed with a metal rod to the brain, some sort of pressurised gun...

Probably a pneumatic captive bolt device...

[Image: 4044005-IMG-300x300.jpg]
That reminds me of Javier Bardem as the serial killer in No Country for Old Men. He used one of those devices connected to a tank of compressed air, to kill a random victim. Because it was an unfamiliar device, and Bardem's character was posing as a policeman, the person meekly submitted to getting a rod driven into his brain between his eyes during what he thought was a traffic stop.

Javier Bardem? I'll raise you a Patrick McCabe.

Quote:Francie returns home and resumes his job at the butchers. One day, while on his rounds, he calls at the Nugents' house. Mrs. Nugent answers and Francie forces his way in. He attacks her and shoots her in the head with the butcher's bolt gun. He cuts her open and writes the word 'PIG' over the walls in an upstairs room with her blood. He puts her into the cart in which he transports the offal and meat-waste, covering her body with the detritus. He casually resumes his rounds and makes his way back to the abattoir...

But when it comes to real dysfunctional families; look no further than the Cauldhame's.

Quote:Two years after I killed Blyth I murdered my young brother Paul, for quite different reasons than I'd disposed of Blyth, and then a year after that I did for my young cousin Esmerelda, more or less on a whim. That's my score to date. I haven't killed anybody for years, and don't intend to ever again. It was just a stage I was going through.

Edit. Completely off topic but just before I closed the Amazon tab on Patrick McCabe I noticed the Kindle version (a ~300mb file that can transmitted a billion times) costs a fiver but the the hardback tree version costs three quid?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
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#25

Kosher and Halal slaughtering method banned in the EU
The best cruelty-free food is vegan.

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Just saying.
[Image: 8a487e2d72e959c458857f1b72271166.gif]
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