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The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
#51

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
Yeah, when he got to sorcery I knew it would be the same ole BS.... Facepalm
R.I.P. Hannes
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#52

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-13-2020, 07:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: Yeah, when he got to sorcery I knew it would be the same ole BS....  Facepalm

When I saw it was Link i figured it would be more of the same old bullshit. Undecided
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#53

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
Eh, what the hell.  I'm a bit bored and starting to itch for some theologically-oriented discussion after focusing on US politics for so long.  So for the moment at least, I'll humor the potential troll.

(12-12-2020, 03:51 PM)Link Wrote: The Quran vividly and clearly supports Shiism over Sunnism, and even more so, is clear in the number of Successors to be twelve.    The different interpretations of Quran is due to the evil nature of humans and the sorcery upon the Quran.

I'd feel pretty confident betting that, if we brought in Sunni Muslim, he/she would say much the same about Shiites. Catholics think the Protestants are heretics, and many Protestants think the Pope is an agent of evil.  It's the same turd, just shaped like a crescent moon instead of a crucifix; just another assortment of self-proclaimed Scotsmen, each claiming that all the others are pretenders.

Here's my challenge to you.  Provide an objective rubric for determining which interpretation of the Quran is correct, by which even a committee of wholly dispassionate readers, with no dogs of their own in the fight, could definitively and unambiguously discredit Sunnism.  In other words, if I were to put you in a room with a Sunni Muslim, I firmly suspect that the two of you would just end up hurling passages and hermeneutics back and forth until you're both blue in the face, each making barely a dent in the other's convictions.  So tell me.  How do you propose to break the tie in any way that isn't fatally subjective?  

(12-12-2020, 03:51 PM)Link Wrote: In fact, I've repeated and will remind again, by normal language rules, the very fact that people interpret the Quran in the way they do and remove words away from their proper place, cannot be but be explained but by dark magic.

Dark magic?  Well, you heard it here first, people!  Some schmuck on the Internet just solved the whole Sunni/Shiite problem, and the answer was remarkably simple!  Apparently, the Sunnis all just failed Defense Against the Dark Arts at the Arabian counterpart to Hogwarts!  Forget all that babble from some other guy about the Sunnis rubbing the lamp of a red genie named Jafar and the Shiites rubbing the lamp of a blue genie named...just Genie, for some weird reason.  Anyway, no, all that genie stuff was just crazy!  But Link here is finally talking sense!  Someone get him a Nobel Peace Prize!

See, this is why you're suspected of trolling.  You can't say shit like that and expect to be taken seriously.  

(12-12-2020, 03:51 PM)Link Wrote: I've explained why bias is not sufficient, it plays a role, but is not sufficient to explain this many times.

Granting this just for a moment, the something extra beyond bias that you're claiming picks up the slack is "dark magic"?  Really?

(12-12-2020, 03:51 PM)Link Wrote: One soul benefiting sometimes happens, for example, there was a person who argued with me over 10 years over the Sunni Shia issue, about 5 months ago,  of course, posted a post that not only I was right but encouraged me to teach "them" a lesson like never before, and by "them" , he called who were all these years his comrades in arguing for sunnism against Shiism as Nawasib which means "haters", and particularly means they have hate towards Mohammad's (s) family.   He was not sarcastic and that was his final post on that anti-Shiite forum.

In other news, I'm a Hagionicolaist (Santa Claus believer), and I convinced a fellow Hagionicolaist who once denied Rudolphism that Rudolph is in fact real!  The Grinch shall deceive him no longer!

Jokes aside, no one cares about anecdotal conversion stories.  I believe you wanted to explain how the Quran accounts for God's current suspicious lack of interaction with humanity.  Or maybe you're more enthralled now with the whole Shia/Sunni tangent.  In neither case is your little success story going to count for much if anything.  It's the content of the belief that matters, not your personal persuasive success.

(12-12-2020, 03:51 PM)Link Wrote: I can disobey Quranic advice and commands sure, I can even declare myself non-Muslim as if I don't know Quran is from God but there isn't possibility of doubt anymore.

Never say never!  Many atheists would've once claimed the same level of certainty about Jesus.  Though I must admit, in your case, you do sound like you might be too far gone to ever be reached.  If so, it's a pity.  At the very least, you could dispense with the pointless guilt over perfectly natural urges.  In any case, would you care to elaborate on what exactly has fostered such overwhelming confidence?
The only sacred truth in science is that there are no sacred truths. - Carl Sagan
Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν τῇ φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστὶν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις. - Κᾱ́ρολος Σήγανος


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#54

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-12-2020, 09:28 PM)Finite Monkeys Wrote:
(12-12-2020, 02:46 PM)Link Wrote: Okay before I go on, is anyone interested in the Quranic response to this? I won't bother if no one says yes.

Abso-fucking-lutely fucking not. 

Seeing you had returned and posted yet more of your same old bullshit made me shake my head and wonder just how ill you are. 

Fuck off. We're not fucking interested. This is my last fucking reply to you. Fucking *plonk*.

I agree totally with your comments about this Islamic arsehole.  It would seem he's so fucking
brainwashed that he can't even think straight and/or comprehend that nobody on this forum
wants to put up with his lunatic rantings and ravings any more.

Link is a Muslim of the worst kind: arrogant, belligerent, radicalised, intolerant, bigoted, and
totally unprepared to even listen to other peoples' differing points of view.

In my opinion, his type of over-zealous, religious fanaticism is a stain on humanity.   

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I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#55

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-12-2020, 07:22 PM)Inkubus Wrote: This post just screams troll.

I agree. I've reported Link twice and requested his banning... for good.

There's really no point in anyone here attempting to have any logical
dialogue with the bloke; he's definitely gone off the deep end. I'm
actually of the opinion that he's mentally deranged, and seriously needs
some form of psychotherapeutic intervention.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#56

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
He wasn't always that bad.
Four or five years ago he was really innocent, friendly, wanting to meet a girl and fall in love.
Humans are smart. They know when somethings not right and they look for answers.
The two main things I see people with mental disorders gravitate towards is drugs and religion.
I'm the type to gravitate towards drugs where as Mystic Knight took the other route.
And we watched it grow inside him over the years. It was quite fascinating.
He's not listening to anyone giving him advice but that's fairly normal.

This probably sounds horrible and I'm not making any accusations, but if I was a recruitment person for a muslim terrorist organisation, I would find Link to be the perfect candidate to nurture.
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#57

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-12-2020, 03:51 PM)Link Wrote: And Sunnism has no place with Quran and Quran condemns it through and through.

Religions have always been an excuse to warmongering.
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#58

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-13-2020, 09:14 AM)SYZ Wrote:
(12-12-2020, 07:22 PM)Inkubus Wrote: This post just screams troll.

I agree.  I've reported Link twice and requested his banning... for good.

There's really no point in anyone here attempting to have any logical
dialogue with the bloke; he's definitely gone off the deep end.  I'm
actually of the opinion that he's mentally deranged, and seriously needs
some form of psychotherapeutic intervention.

I'd say he's definitely become unwell again, it's following exactly the same path as it did last time only markedly quicker.
Justaminute   The whole point of having cake is to eat it! 
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#59

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-12-2020, 03:51 PM)Link Wrote: And Sunnism has no place with Quran and Quran condemns it through and through.
Every single Sunni begs to differ Facepalm
R.I.P. Hannes
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#60

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-13-2020, 11:14 AM)Little Lunch Wrote: The two main things I see people with mental disorders gravitate towards is drugs and religion...

Which I guess are very similar things, in that the human brain is dulled or confused,
and so-affected people lose their powers of logic, lucidity and reason.  They also
become vulnerable to inappropriate suggestions, beliefs, hallucinations, and untoward
actions—too often to their own detriment.

Link is an obvious example: a dulled brain, a lack of acumen, tunnel vision, oblivious
to logic, and unquestioningly accepting fantastical notions as the absolute truth. He's
unwilling or unable to debate things from a middle-ground perspective, and simply and
repeatedly attempts to superimpose his dogged beliefs on those of everybody else.

There's really no point in attempting to reply to his ultimately senseless posts, as you
may as well be talking to a paling fence LOL.


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I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#61

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-13-2020, 11:14 AM)Little Lunch Wrote: He wasn't always that bad.
Four or five years ago he was really innocent, friendly, wanting to meet a girl and fall in love.


This probably sounds horrible and I'm not making any accusations, but if I was a recruitment person for a muslim terrorist organisation, I would find Link to be the perfect candidate to nurture.

If I'm not mistaken some of his previous comments about women had a definite incel-ish feel to them.


Funny thing, (some) men, when unable to get the girls,"love", sex, whatever it is they think they're owed, turn to aggression and abject hatred. Most women in a similar situation seem to just end up reading the kind of trash I'm translating at the moment. Dunno
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#62

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
You nailed it, Gloss.

Quote:I'd feel pretty confident betting that, if we brought in Sunni Muslim, he/she would say much the same about Shiites. Catholics think the Protestants are heretics, and many Protestants think the Pope is an agent of evil.  It's the same turd, just shaped like a crescent moon instead of a crucifix; just another assortment of self-proclaimed Scotsmen, each claiming that all the others are pretenders.


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Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#63

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-11-2020, 06:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(12-11-2020, 02:41 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:
(12-10-2020, 02:30 PM)Dānu Wrote: I can't speak officially, as I'm not a member of staff, but I have no objection.  That being said, I don't tend to participate in discussions of this type much, so might not be very involved.  That, and I'm not knowledgable about the divine hiddenness argument in general like I am about some other common theological arguments.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-hiddenness/

However, “divine hiddenness” refers to something else in recent philosophical literature, especially since the publication of J.L. Schellenberg’s landmark book, Divine Hiddenness and Human Reason (1993). In this context, it refers to alleged facts about the absence of belief of God, .....

Basically, this is about Schellenberg's argument for atheism.

Ezekiel 36:26-8
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within
you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will
give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my
statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye
shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Isaiah 59:20-21
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit
that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not
depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the
mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
 
See also:
Ezekiel 36:26-8, Isaiah 59:20-21, Jeremiah 24:6-7,
Jeremiah 31:33-34, Ezekiel 11:19, 1 Samuel 10:9,
2 Corinthians 1:21-22

God seems to be laying down on the job.  Or to not exist at all.

The Schellenberg arguments are simply an expansion on a pre-existing concept, and what had already been written. 
They presuppose the necessity to argue about the idea of a god, (without even defining it).  
I stand by what I said. 

From the link :
"Divine hiddenness”, as the phrase suggests, refers, most fundamentally, to the hiddenness of God, i.e., the alleged fact that God is hidden, absent, silent.
In religious literature, there is a long history of expressions of annoyance, anxiety, and despair over divine hiddenness, so understood.

So the link agrees with me.

"However, divine hiddenness refers to something else in recent philosophical literature, especially since the publication of J.L. Schellenberg’s landmark book, "Divine Hiddenness and Human Reason" (1993). In this context, it refers to alleged facts about the absence of belief of God, on the basis of which one might think there is no God.

The Quran and the traditions of belief do not refer to the "hiddenness problem" based on the absence of belief. You actually think Link knows about Schellenberger ? LOL

Anselm of Canterbury, in his Prosiogion, said : "I have never seen thee, O Lord my God; I do not know thy form. What, O most high Lord, shall this man do, an exile far from thee? What shall thy servant do, anxious in his love of thee, and cast out afar from thy face? He pants to see thee, and thy face is too far from him. He longs to come to thee, and thy dwelling place is inaccessible. He is eager to find thee, and knows not thy place. He desires to seek thee, and does not know thy face. Lord, thou art my God, and thou art my Lord, yet never have I seen thee. It is thou that hast made me, and hast made me anew, and hast bestowed upon me all the blessings I enjoy; and not yet do I know thee. Finally, I was created to see thee and not yet have I done that for which I was made."

Exodus 24
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


There are lots of OT examples of God coming down to Earth and being seen and interacting with us mere humans.  But now, nada, zip, zilch.  If God existed and cared, God could do so.  Now if indeed these tales of grand appearances, leading the Israelite as a pillar of smoke by day, as a pillar of fire by night, are outright lies, we can see why this non-existent God makes no appearance.  If we claim God exists, his absence makes little sense.
I am a sovereign citizen of the Multiverse, and I vote!


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#64

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-13-2020, 10:25 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:
(12-11-2020, 06:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(12-11-2020, 02:41 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-hiddenness/

However, “divine hiddenness” refers to something else in recent philosophical literature, especially since the publication of J.L. Schellenberg’s landmark book, Divine Hiddenness and Human Reason (1993). In this context, it refers to alleged facts about the absence of belief of God, .....

Basically, this is about Schellenberg's argument for atheism.

Ezekiel 36:26-8
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within
you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will
give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my
statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye
shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Isaiah 59:20-21
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit
that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not
depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the
mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
 
See also:
Ezekiel 36:26-8, Isaiah 59:20-21, Jeremiah 24:6-7,
Jeremiah 31:33-34, Ezekiel 11:19, 1 Samuel 10:9,
2 Corinthians 1:21-22

God seems to be laying down on the job.  Or to not exist at all.

The Schellenberg arguments are simply an expansion on a pre-existing concept, and what had already been written. 
They presuppose the necessity to argue about the idea of a god, (without even defining it).  
I stand by what I said. 

From the link :
"Divine hiddenness”, as the phrase suggests, refers, most fundamentally, to the hiddenness of God, i.e., the alleged fact that God is hidden, absent, silent.
In religious literature, there is a long history of expressions of annoyance, anxiety, and despair over divine hiddenness, so understood.

So the link agrees with me.

"However, divine hiddenness refers to something else in recent philosophical literature, especially since the publication of J.L. Schellenberg’s landmark book, "Divine Hiddenness and Human Reason" (1993). In this context, it refers to alleged facts about the absence of belief of God, on the basis of which one might think there is no God.

The Quran and the traditions of belief do not refer to the "hiddenness problem" based on the absence of belief. You actually think Link knows about Schellenberger ? LOL

Anselm of Canterbury, in his Prosiogion, said : "I have never seen thee, O Lord my God; I do not know thy form. What, O most high Lord, shall this man do, an exile far from thee? What shall thy servant do, anxious in his love of thee, and cast out afar from thy face? He pants to see thee, and thy face is too far from him. He longs to come to thee, and thy dwelling place is inaccessible. He is eager to find thee, and knows not thy place. He desires to seek thee, and does not know thy face. Lord, thou art my God, and thou art my Lord, yet never have I seen thee. It is thou that hast made me, and hast made me anew, and hast bestowed upon me all the blessings I enjoy; and not yet do I know thee. Finally, I was created to see thee and not yet have I done that for which I was made."

Exodus 24
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


There are lots of OT examples of God coming down to Earth and being seen and interacting with us mere humans.  But now, nada, zip, zilch.  If God existed and cared, God could do so.  Now if indeed these tales of grand appearances, leading the Israelite as a pillar of smoke by day, as a pillar of fire by night, are outright lies, we can see why this non-existent God makes no appearance.  If we claim God exists, his absence makes little sense.

Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered.”
Exodus 33:11 Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. When Moses turned again into the camp, his assistant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.
Exodus 33:20 "But he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

Depends ... on how much you've been drinking, I guess.
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#65

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
My problem with the Quran is that it is self contradictory and incoherent. Every Sura begins with the proclamation that God is merciful and compassionate. But I counted 27 such verses in the Quran that tell us we have no free will. The Quran repeatedly tells us we have no free will. Qadar. "Allah leads who he will lead and leads astray who he will lead astray." So if Abdul is lead astray by Allah and burns in hell forever, this is neither merciful, nor compassionate. At this point, I no longer care about the Quran, Allah, or Islam. I know this is not a revelation from Allah. Sura 4 tells us we can know the Quran is true because it contains no inconsistencies. Obviously, it does, so is not a revelation by the Quran's own measure. By the Quran's own criteria of truthfulness.
Why Allah remains hidden to mankind is obvious. God is a fantasy, a myth, non-existent. Self contradictory, incoherent, God makes no sense at all.
I am a sovereign citizen of the Multiverse, and I vote!


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#66

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
The Quran holds zero authority with me.  None.  None at all.  It's just one of a huge pile of books that to me are indistinguishable from fiction, and it's not even good fiction.  What it claims about this "Allah" character is therefore of no consequence.

If one is going to worship a deity from a fantasy novel, there are better ones to choose from -- and they have actual personalities.  Thumbs Up
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#67

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
Duplicate, deleted.
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#68

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-13-2020, 03:27 PM)Vera Wrote:
(12-13-2020, 11:14 AM)Little Lunch Wrote: He wasn't always that bad.
Four or five years ago he was really innocent, friendly, wanting to meet a girl and fall in love.


This probably sounds horrible and I'm not making any accusations, but if I was a recruitment person for a muslim terrorist organisation, I would find Link to be the perfect candidate to nurture.

If I'm not mistaken some of his previous comments about women had a definite incel-ish feel to them.


Funny thing, (some) men, when unable to get the  girls,"love", sex, whatever it is they think they're owed, turn to aggression and abject hatred. Most women in a similar situation seem to just end up reading the kind of trash I'm translating at the moment.   Dunno

My romantic aspect of life has nothing to do with this. But just for your information of how far off you are,  I may or may not be deluded in who I am in love with. I will explain. Three hot women I've cancelled dats on the day of the date, and five over all my city (very hot women) wanted to meet me and probably still do and I can still meet them or go on a date.

The reason I don't, is very weird. Because of series of dreams starting from when I was grade 3 and in the past 8 months 46 dreams about this women, when my whole life I dreamt of the Prophet (s) 3 times, of Ali (a) 3 times, and my parents only twice, and other family members only twice each, and even the person I almost married when I was 21 I only had 3 dreams about her, but with this woman, these dreams are not normal for me at all, they are of a different nature, and because of these dreams,  and to you I know I will seem deluded, but they helped me unlock memories of the world before we came to this world where we took a covenant with God.

I can't prove it to anyone but I do believe deep inside we are soulmates. This doesn't mean we are going to get married,  for example Ali (a) and Fatima (a) or Abraham (a) and Sarah (a) they are soulmates before coming to this world and they were destined to married. 

What I believe happened is that the person I love, she had a lot of love for humanity and was scared for their sake they won't pass the test, and I also cared a lot, but she also lacked confidence in herself to be guided and to pass the trial, and we were beside each other there and I promised I would do everything I can to protect and guide her.

And I believe us two, we can become game changers in the fight of good and evil, but it's not that we are destined to choose good over evil. In fact, the probability we take the side of passion and blindness is probably more.

What am I writing here is rooted in Quran and Sunnah and has evidence. If anything in my life is delusional is me rejecting hot women over and over again this year, just out of belief that I promised I would do everything I can to help and support and guide this person.

And I know my love for her is such that, if God did allow (which he doesn't) a person to burden a burden of another,  and it was so that I entered paradise and she entered hell and I was allowed to exchange places and this be permanent and forever, I Would do it for her in a heartbeat.

Now this madness and I know it, and I can't help my feeling for this person.  I am distressed for her sake more then myself, and I care about her entering paradise and being honorable place with God more then myself.

But I seldom mention God and religion to her, once in a bloom moon. She pretty has through her standards immunized herself from guidance and there is little chance of her being guided at this point.

God knows I would take a bullet for her in a heartbeat and the reason why I love her, is that I know, she loves the weakest, strangest, weirdest and most outcast people, and loves people in general and has not even a taint of envy towards successful people as well. As far as love goes in the positive sense, she has it a lot. But it's her weakness and way of Satan having misguided her too.

She is allergic to Mohammad (s) and the truth he came with, she is allergic to the true living God and Lord of all things, because she is too much on the side of forbearing and love.  She needs to become judgmental and she hates judgmental people and I am probably the most judgmental and harsh in this regard that anyone she ever meant or will meet.

I know her, and I know she hates judgment not due to the reason in the bible of disbelievers hating Jesus (a), that they are afraid the light judge them, she is not selfish in this regard.  She wants everyone to enter paradise except maybe the most vile oppressive evil people.   

Her love of humans is too much, I've chosen to choose God, even if means almost all humans in this century and through out history are condemned to hell.  I love God more, but this is only because I have proof and upon clear knowledge and God has allowed me to gaze upon his light through out most of my life.

In fact, even Prophets (a) almost fell into this over-loving forbearing stance, for example, when Abraham (a) began to argue with God about whether God should destroy Lot's (a) people or not.

She loves people too much.  But like Yonus (a) blaming himself, her reason for deviance and not being guided is the saddest reason for me.   

Ultimately, hell is the hardest thing to accept in Quran but it's also what Quran has presented the most proofs for and in the form of many angles, of why it is so, it's severity and forever nature, have not only been emphasized but the reasons why proven.

She hasn't read the Quran at all nor the Bible.   But she believes in a Creator and prayers, etc.

I know her religion though she won't talk about it, I know she has deep knowledge in spiritual matters, but her spiritual knowledge to me is layered in deceptions of lies from the wrong sources and she relies on people who should not be relied in this regard.

We don't worship the same God, we aren't of the same path, and we have some things in common, but are mostly complete opposites. 

If I was sane and reasonable and cared about myself, I would abandon her, move on, or have gone on the dates I cancelled this year.

Two of these women - if you saw their face and bodies, you would literally tell me I'm insane just on that basis of having not followed through and gone on the date with them.  But every time the date time approached, I found myself thinking of the person I love and it distressed me the possibility of me giving up on her, even though I know my chances of getting married to her are very low, probably under 5%.

And their personalities (the women I could've gone on a date with but cancelled), are cool, it's not just looks, they have great personality.

You guys didn't know this about me, but if anything makes me insane, is my love for this woman that I can't even date others.   And of course while I compliment her all day,  I've heard the meanest words about me and most insulting behavior and most degrading words and behavior words towards me, from her to me, then anyone else in the world.

No one has severely insulted me as she does, mocked me to the degree she does, and even the insults on these forums, they are no where near what she said to me and about me.

And in a weird twisted way, she has said the opposite of every one of those insults to me.  She has complimented me with words that are not just negations of those insults, but the exact opposite.

And this is the nature, she is choosing and battling regarding me.   She hasn't decided yet but most days she is on the side of being disgusted by me these days.

None of my love for her is rational, none of it, and of course, the 45 dreams and my belief we had some sort of connection before we were created in this world, to you guys, because you don't believe in spiritual world or psychic connection or magic or souls or anything in that regard, of course, if anything, this makes me insane.

What I'm posting to you guys about God and magic, most of the world believes now and historically, this the stance of most humans. Most humans believe in magic and God through out history and in fact, this is the majority stance of "non-religious" people too, most people without religion in the west actually believe in God and magic and all that stuff, they just don't have an organized religion.

My topic although strange in your little closed bubble, about Quran and magic, this is something most humans would not find strange at all.

But since we are talking about romance and my madness, here is some content you can use to insult me.  If you want to know what makes me irrational, it's not the proofs of God I've reminded you guys of and the reminders of reality that should remind you of God's existence without doubt.

It's what I just explained.  This is my most irrational way of thinking and acting in my life.

But I can't even begin to prove the connection I have with her, because you guys, will assess, tell me it's infatuation and probably mix in conjecture about mental illness in that, and tell me I'm obsessed and have deluded myself.

Yet I know - why - I love her and I know what I know, and care less, what everyone including my parents think of me being in love with this person.  My family thinks I'm a disgrace now due to my love for this person.

And while others might want her to for her coolness or cuteness in the way she talks or maybe her pretty face or body or whatever, and want to live with her in this world then die,  my plans because I am certain of the next world, are beyond all that.  I want to be with her forever, but if we won't be, and her fate is the evil place - I want her to realize then, yeah the reason why I didn't choose to drink alcohol smoke weed etc and any other thing she wants me to do for her sake, and I know 100% if I did, I would be with her in this world, she will know then I sacrificed all that for a reason.

I know why she hates me more then she loves me, and I could've hid all this, said nothing ever to her, and just flirted, gave up religion and drank and smoked weed, but I've chosen to sacrifice that, and it hurts me, but she will know it's an act of love one day.

Today I'm that judgmental foolish idiot, I'm the fool like Jacob appeared to his sons, I'm the guy everyone wants gone like the brothers of Joseph wanted him out of the picture, and I am the notorious knight no one wants to hear.

Of course, it's easy for me to say to people what they want to hear only.  And I know when I remind of God I am very well aware of how Iblis and the dark magic makes me appear in intention and motive in all that.

Satan has and will continue to not have mercy on me this regard, people will always assume the worse about me, paint me with worse intentions, never recognize a single praise and attribute in me and they will always magnify my mistakes and belittle any good traits I have.

This includes my family including my parents, let alone others. 

But in all that,  I don't care, I just want God to see me sincere when I prostrate myself to him and that is good enough. If he sees me loving him/her/it above all else, it's good enough. But I hate myself because I have never been sincere to God despite all the call towards him, I think maybe in my life if you add all the moments of brief sincerity, you won't get more then 10 hours.

Despite certainty in his vision and my soul and the relationship and how it exists and how I have value whether of negative or positive, I show no shame to God's vision and show more shame to people I know don't see anything in truth nor care for it.

I've been God's friend in the outward while his enemy in the inward. 

And this is my pathetic nature, neither God nor the world, I get none of both,  neither temporary happiness by getting drunk and lit and getting high with the woman I love, and neither I have made myself sincere to God that I have God's pleasure.

But these days, I am finally moving towards sincerity. There is some kind of inner fighting going on and I am battling Satan a lot harder these days then ever before.
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#69

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
 ^  ^  ^

Do we really need to see this wall of rambling, absolute bullshit posted here?

Is anybody with even half a functioning brain gonna even read it?

It's obviously been written by someone with an unsound mind.      Panic
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#70

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-11-2020, 09:12 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(12-11-2020, 08:21 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: That's why it's so popular for theists to place their god "outside of space and time" these days. It's an imaginary place they know is "un-findable". Their god used to hand out rules and regulations from mountain tops or he lived up in the clouds or on the other side of the moon but with space exploration and no god ever turning up they've had to push their god to far away from earth that he's now "outside of space and time".  It's the perfect answer to their god dilemma.  The trouble is there's as much evidence that an Invisible Donut or a Magical Unicorn live outside of space and time as there is for Allah, Yahweh or Lord Vishnu.

This is also the reason why the religious are so enamoured with the concept of a multiverse. They now have an infinite number of bolt holes for their godman to hide in.

Seems to me that hanging one's hopes on the multiverse is very nearly admitting 'natural but very advanced entity from another universe'.  Unfortunately for that perspective, Clarke's Law is as applicable to apparent divine powers as it is to apparent magic.
"Aliens?  Us?  Is this one of your Earth jokes?"  -- Kro-Bar, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
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#71

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
I'm sorry for your difficulties, Link. Love makes fools of us all.

[Image: afo-sig-009%20copy.jpg]
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#72

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-14-2020, 02:28 PM)SYZ Wrote:  ^  ^  ^

Do we really need to see this wall of rambling, absolute bullshit posted here?

Is anybody with even half a functioning brain gonna even read it?

It's obviously been written by someone with an unsound mind.      Panic

^ ^ ^ 

Or as Shakespeare once wrote:  "Brevity is the soul of wit."
                                                         T4618
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#73

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-14-2020, 03:33 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: Or as Shakespeare once wrote:  "Brevity is the soul of wit."

And, while we're all soulless, some are also witless Deadpan Coffee Drinker
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#74

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
(12-14-2020, 02:04 PM)Link Wrote: I can't prove it to anyone but I do believe deep inside we are soulmates.

That is a hideous myth that puts unjustifiable pressure on the other "soulmate."  Cut it out.  Now!

Quote:What am I writing here is rooted in Quran and Sunnah and has evidence.

And we reject your so-called "evidence."  It's worthless tosh.

Quote:Ultimately, hell is the hardest thing to accept in Quran but it's also what Quran has presented the most proofs for...

There is no proof whatsoever in the Quran.  It's all unsupported mythological assertions, especially the silly "hell" myth.  It's quite obviously a cheap, manipulative trick to scare vulnerable people into submission, and the best way to free yourself from the myth is to confront it directly and laugh at it.
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#75

The God's hiddenness argument and Quran.
Quote:My romantic aspect of life has nothing to do with this. But just for your information of how far off you are,  I may or may not be deluded in who I am in love with. I will explain. Three hot women I've cancelled dats on the day of the date, and five over all my city (very hot women) wanted to meet me and probably still do and I can still meet them or go on a date...

Troll it is.
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