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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care

Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-17-2021, 03:29 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: The District Attorney in the Charles Keating case sent a letter to Mother Teresa asking for the return of the stolen money.  Here's his letter.   



Quote: Dear Mother Teresa


I am a Deputy District Attorney in Los Angeles County and one of the persons who worked on the prosecution of your benefactor, Charles H. Keating, Jr. I read your letter to Judge Ito, written on behalf of Mr. Keating, which includes your admission that you know nothing about Mr. Keating’s business or the criminal charges presented to Judge Ito. I am writing to you to provide a brief explanation of the crimes of which Mr. Keating has been convicted, to give you an understanding of the source of the money that Mr. Keating gave to you, and to suggest that you perform the moral and ethical act of returning the money to its rightful owners.
Mr. Keating was convicted of defrauding 17 individuals of more than $900,000. These 17 persons were representative of 17,000 individuals from whom Mr. Keating stole $252,000,000. Mr. Keating’s specific acts of fraud were that he was the source of a series of fraudulent representations made to persons who bought bonds from his company and he also was the repository of crucial information which he chose to withhold from bond purchasers, thereby luring his victims into believing they were making a safe, low-risk investment. In truth and in fact, their money was being used to fund Mr. Keating’s exorbitant and extravagant lifestyle.
The victims of Mr. Keating’s fraud come from a wide spectrum of society. Some were wealthy and well-educated. Most were people of modest means and unfamiliar with high finance. One was, indeed, a poor carpenter who did not speak English and had his life savings stolen by Mr. Keating’s fraud.


The biblical slogan of your organization is ‘As long as you did it to one of these My least brethren. You did it to Me’. The ‘least’ of the brethren are among those whom Mr. Keating fleeced without flinching. As you well know, divine forgiveness is available to all, but forgiveness must be preceded by admission of sin. Not only has Mr. Keating failed to admit his sins and his crimes, he persists in self-righteously blaming others for his own misdeeds. Your experience is, admirably, with the poor. My experience has been with the ‘con’ man and the perpetrator of the fraud. It is not uncommon for ‘con’ men to be generous with family, friends and charities.


Perhaps they believe that their generosity will purchase love, respect or forgiveness. However, the time when the purchase of ‘indulgences’ was an acceptable method of seeking forgiveness died with the Reformation. No church, no charity, no organization should allow itself to be used as a salve for the conscience of the criminal. We all are grateful that forgiveness is available but we all, also, must perform our duty. That includes the Judge and the Jury. I remind myself of the biblical admonition of the Prophet Micah: ‘O man, what is good and what does the Lord require of you. To do justice, love mercy and walk humbly.’
We are urged to love mercy but we must do justice.


You urge Judge Ito to look into his heart — as he sentences Charles Keating — and do what Jesus would do. I submit the same challenge to you. Ask yourself what Jesus would do if he were given the fruits of a crime; what Jesus would do if he were in possession of money that had been stolen; what Jesus would do if he were being exploited by a thief to ease his conscience?

I submit that Jesus would promptly and unhesitatingly return the stolen property to its rightful owners. You should do the same. You have been given money by Mr. Keating that he has been convicted of stealing by fraud. Do not permit him the ‘indulgence’ he desires Do not keep the money. Return it to those who worked for it and earned it!

If you contact me I will put you in direct contact with the rightful owners of the property now in your possession.

Sincerely,
Paul W. Turley

Here is the letter from Mother Teresa.

[Image: ZDWM1C4.jpeg]

The woman just doesn't get it.  She's got stolen money.  If you're a moral individual you return stolen money to the rightful owners.  She's was a class A selfish bitch not a saint.

If she wasn't a nun protected by religion, she might have been arrested. But who DARE arrest or harm a nun...?
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-17-2021, 11:59 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 10:48 AM)SYZ Wrote: —I'll await a response from Lion clarifying this.  

SYZ wrote: "Willfully inflammatory responses. Repeatedly confrontational attitude. Will not engage in meaningful, respectful dialogue. No value to forum."

...burns bridges then disingenuously now wants to 'chat'

I'll answer your post when you undo your neg rep.

Oh dear, we now have a crybaby in our midst.      Big Grin  

But note how Lion conveniently avoids addressing my comments by creating the misdirection
of a straw man.  It never ceases to amuse me that whenever theists are put on the spot, and
are asked a direct question, they'll do everything to avoid answering—like this guy just did.     
Well, actually it's not funny—it's pathetic.

God tells us that God owns everything?    How does that work?

So, c'mon mate... answer my question.  If you can.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
@Lion IRC
(05-16-2021, 10:14 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote:
(05-16-2021, 08:18 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-16-2021, 04:59 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: @Lion IRC 

Are you truly naive enough to believe all the money collected by churches finds it's way to charitable causes?!?

That depends on how you define charity.

You want to play the definition game? Ok. Let's go with Merriam-Webster:
Charity

1a : generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering also : aid given to those in need

 b : an institution engaged in relief of the poor

 c : public provision for the relief of the needy

2 : benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity

3a : a gift for public benevolent purposes
 b : an institution (such as a hospital)
 
4 : lenient judgment of others


Charitable

1 : full of love for and goodwill toward others

2a : liberal in benefactions to the needy

 b : of or relating to charity

3 : merciful or kind in judging others

How would you explain Joel Osteen's private residence given the above definitions? The Catholic Church's court ordered restitution to the victims of sexual predators? The luxury cars and aircraft of the mega-church pastors? Do you really believe all these things, payed for by the churches with money that is untaxed, are in any way charitable?

Ignoring this?!?
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-17-2021, 03:29 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: The District Attorney in the Charles Keating case sent a letter to Mother Teresa asking for the return of the stolen money.  Here's his letter.   



Quote: Dear Mother Teresa


I am a Deputy District Attorney in Los Angeles County and one of the persons who worked on the prosecution of your benefactor, Charles H. Keating, Jr. I read your letter to Judge Ito, written on behalf of Mr. Keating, which includes your admission that you know nothing about Mr. Keating’s business or the criminal charges presented to Judge Ito. I am writing to you to provide a brief explanation of the crimes of which Mr. Keating has been convicted, to give you an understanding of the source of the money that Mr. Keating gave to you, and to suggest that you perform the moral and ethical act of returning the money to its rightful owners.
Mr. Keating was convicted of defrauding 17 individuals of more than $900,000. These 17 persons were representative of 17,000 individuals from whom Mr. Keating stole $252,000,000. Mr. Keating’s specific acts of fraud were that he was the source of a series of fraudulent representations made to persons who bought bonds from his company and he also was the repository of crucial information which he chose to withhold from bond purchasers, thereby luring his victims into believing they were making a safe, low-risk investment. In truth and in fact, their money was being used to fund Mr. Keating’s exorbitant and extravagant lifestyle.
The victims of Mr. Keating’s fraud come from a wide spectrum of society. Some were wealthy and well-educated. Most were people of modest means and unfamiliar with high finance. One was, indeed, a poor carpenter who did not speak English and had his life savings stolen by Mr. Keating’s fraud.


The biblical slogan of your organization is ‘As long as you did it to one of these My least brethren. You did it to Me’. The ‘least’ of the brethren are among those whom Mr. Keating fleeced without flinching. As you well know, divine forgiveness is available to all, but forgiveness must be preceded by admission of sin. Not only has Mr. Keating failed to admit his sins and his crimes, he persists in self-righteously blaming others for his own misdeeds. Your experience is, admirably, with the poor. My experience has been with the ‘con’ man and the perpetrator of the fraud. It is not uncommon for ‘con’ men to be generous with family, friends and charities.


Perhaps they believe that their generosity will purchase love, respect or forgiveness. However, the time when the purchase of ‘indulgences’ was an acceptable method of seeking forgiveness died with the Reformation. No church, no charity, no organization should allow itself to be used as a salve for the conscience of the criminal. We all are grateful that forgiveness is available but we all, also, must perform our duty. That includes the Judge and the Jury. I remind myself of the biblical admonition of the Prophet Micah: ‘O man, what is good and what does the Lord require of you. To do justice, love mercy and walk humbly.’
We are urged to love mercy but we must do justice.


You urge Judge Ito to look into his heart — as he sentences Charles Keating — and do what Jesus would do. I submit the same challenge to you. Ask yourself what Jesus would do if he were given the fruits of a crime; what Jesus would do if he were in possession of money that had been stolen; what Jesus would do if he were being exploited by a thief to ease his conscience?

I submit that Jesus would promptly and unhesitatingly return the stolen property to its rightful owners. You should do the same. You have been given money by Mr. Keating that he has been convicted of stealing by fraud. Do not permit him the ‘indulgence’ he desires Do not keep the money. Return it to those who worked for it and earned it!

If you contact me I will put you in direct contact with the rightful owners of the property now in your possession.

Sincerely,
Paul W. Turley

Here is the letter from Mother Teresa.

[Image: ZDWM1C4.jpeg]

The woman just doesn't get it.  She's got stolen money.  If you're a moral individual you return stolen money to the rightful owners.  She's was a class A selfish bitch not a saint.

You gotta be scum to have a lawyer lecturing you like that.
Freedom isn't free.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-17-2021, 08:43 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: @Lion IRC
(05-16-2021, 10:14 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote:
(05-16-2021, 08:18 PM)Lion IRC Wrote: That depends on how you define charity.

You want to play the definition game? Ok. Let's go with Merriam-Webster:
Charity

1a : generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering also : aid given to those in need

 b : an institution engaged in relief of the poor

 c : public provision for the relief of the needy

2 : benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity

3a : a gift for public benevolent purposes
 b : an institution (such as a hospital)
 
4 : lenient judgment of others


Charitable

1 : full of love for and goodwill toward others

2a : liberal in benefactions to the needy

 b : of or relating to charity

3 : merciful or kind in judging others

How would you explain Joel Osteen's private residence given the above definitions? The Catholic Church's court ordered restitution to the victims of sexual predators? The luxury cars and aircraft of the mega-church pastors? Do you really believe all these things, payed for by the churches with money that is untaxed, are in any way charitable?

Ignoring this?!?

1. I dont have to explain Joel Osteens camel/eye of a needle problem. And I already passed a judgement on him. Did you read what I wrote?

2. The church caring for victims of crime is a very worthy charity.

3. Show me the individual details of the mega-church pastors and we can inspect where their assets come from. 

4. "All these things" are in different categories and not all are paid out of untaxed charitable giving by parishioners.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 11:19 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 08:43 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: @Lion IRC
(05-16-2021, 10:14 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: You want to play the definition game? Ok. Let's go with Merriam-Webster:
Charity

1a : generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering also : aid given to those in need

 b : an institution engaged in relief of the poor

 c : public provision for the relief of the needy

2 : benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity

3a : a gift for public benevolent purposes
 b : an institution (such as a hospital)
 
4 : lenient judgment of others


Charitable

1 : full of love for and goodwill toward others

2a : liberal in benefactions to the needy

 b : of or relating to charity

3 : merciful or kind in judging others

How would you explain Joel Osteen's private residence given the above definitions? The Catholic Church's court ordered restitution to the victims of sexual predators? The luxury cars and aircraft of the mega-church pastors? Do you really believe all these things, payed for by the churches with money that is untaxed, are in any way charitable?

Ignoring this?!?

1. I dont have to explain Joel Osteens camel/eye of a needle problem. And I already passed a judgement on him. Did you read what I wrote?

2. The church caring for victims of crime is a very worthy charity.

3. Show me the individual details of the mega-church pastors and we can inspect where their assets come from. 

4. "All these things" are in different categories and not all are paid out of untaxed charitable giving by parishioners.

You "passed a judgement" on him ?
"Judge not, lest ye be judged" ... so you know better than your Jebus. Got it.

re #4. Tell us exactly what categories are taxed, at what rate, and what proportions are taxed and not taxed.
(You have not the first clue what you're on about). ALL church income is tax exempt. You're just making up shit.
You are SO fucking ill-informed about this, and every subject ole fella. Time to hang it up, and retire from this Apologetic Horseshit thing ... you're REALLY bad at it.
No one has to show the "individual details" of mega-church crooks. We know what assets they started out with, (none) and what they have now.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 11:19 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: 2. The church caring for victims of crime is a very worthy charity.

That isn't "charity." That is helping to repair the damage done to those victims during crimes, perpetrated by the leaders the church appointed to provide them guidance and help. That compensation is a moral, and now legal, duty, not charity.

If a thief gets caught stealing, and part of his sentence is financial restitution to his victims for the things he stole and sold, is that charity? This is your logic.

Tell us again how we need your god to have proper moral sensibilities.

Restitution is now charity! <snort>
Freedom isn't free.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 11:19 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: 3. Show me the individual details of the mega-church pastors and we can inspect where their assets come from... 

Hillsong Church Australia, and it's founder/pastor Brian Houston.

Last year, the megachurch "earned" tax-free $80 million in Australia,
and $100 million overseas, also tax-free.

Houston recently urged people to donate a tenth of their income (which the church
calls 'tithing') to Hillsong—even if they're 'struggling with bills or debt'. This was
apparently to offset the fallout from the church's cheating New York head pastor
Carl Lentz, who was kicked out of the church over his affair with fashion designer
Ranim Karim. She's spilled details of their sordid affair, drunken nights together and
how he told her that she was the best sex he'd ever had.

Hillsong also produced a video showing people step-by-step how to pay online, with
the example of a $100 donation each week!  Pastor Robert Morris from the Gateway
Church in Dallas said giving 10% of income to the church was 'the most important
principle' because that was 'putting God first in every area of life'.

Morris then told the story of a used-car dealer who earned only $640 in a difficult week.
After donating $64 to the church, the very next day he got a refund cheque for an
overpaid water bill, 'You'll never convince me in a million years that is a coincidence,'
he said.

And, finally, according to Forbes, Brian Houston’s personal wealth was $70 million
in 2019-2020, although due to Houston and Hillsong's secrecy, plus ATO (Australian
Taxation Office) privacy laws, this figure could be somewhat unreliable—but certainly
very close one way or the other.

—As a footnote, Houston is homophobic, pro-life, opposes same-sex marriage, and sex
   before marriage.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 01:06 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2021, 11:19 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: 2. The church caring for victims of crime is a very worthy charity.

That isn't "charity." That is helping to repair the damage done to those victims during crimes, perpetrated by the leaders the church appointed to provide them guidance and help. That compensation is a moral, and now legal, duty, not charity...

Exactly. 

According to the nonprofit organization Bishop Accountability, the Catholic church has paid out more
than $3 billion in major settlements and awards in the United States. Some groups believe this number
underestimates by nearly $1 billion—the actual cost to the US church for covering up clergy abuse for
nearly a half-century.

Here in Australia, The Catholic Church has just made what is believed to be its highest ever payout to
a victim of sexual abuse after church lawyers forced a 52-year-old man to give harrowing evidence in
court about his rape—by priest Bertram Adderley—in the 1970s, when he was 10-12 years old. The
victim will receive A$2.45 million.

Tithing to the Catholic church in Australia is extremely common (maybe to pay out victims of priestly
sexual abuse?) and THIS is typical of the "pledge" form distributed to its congregations.  This one is
for a large suburban parish in Sydney whose population is 68% South-East Asian born, and who are up
to 97% or 86% Roman Catholic EG: from Timor-Leste or the Philippines respectively.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 11:19 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 08:43 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: @Lion IRC
(05-16-2021, 10:14 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: You want to play the definition game? Ok. Let's go with Merriam-Webster:
Charity

1a : generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering also : aid given to those in need

 b : an institution engaged in relief of the poor

 c : public provision for the relief of the needy

2 : benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity

3a : a gift for public benevolent purposes
 b : an institution (such as a hospital)
 
4 : lenient judgment of others


Charitable

1 : full of love for and goodwill toward others

2a : liberal in benefactions to the needy

 b : of or relating to charity

3 : merciful or kind in judging others

How would you explain Joel Osteen's private residence given the above definitions? The Catholic Church's court ordered restitution to the victims of sexual predators? The luxury cars and aircraft of the mega-church pastors? Do you really believe all these things, payed for by the churches with money that is untaxed, are in any way charitable?

Ignoring this?!?

1. I dont have to explain Joel Osteens camel/eye of a needle problem. And I already passed a judgement on him. Did you read what I wrote?

2. The church caring for victims of crime is a very worthy charity.

3. Show me the individual details of the mega-church pastors and we can inspect where their assets come from. 

4. "All these things" are in different categories and not all are paid out of untaxed charitable giving by parishioners.

I was going to answer point by point, but two things:
1. Others have already done so.
2. You are obviously completely ignorant of how tax exemptions work for churches and and how the churches abuse those exemptions.

I really don't care enough to spend the time to correct your ignorance, so I'll leave that up to you. The information's out there if you really want it.
[Image: Bastard-Signature.jpg]
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 05:17 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: I really don't care enough to spend the time to correct your ignorance...


Well, in that case you'll have to forgive me for sticking with my fact claims.

Just so long as you concede that your post wasn't deliberately ignored.
You asked me to respond. I did. 
If you want to leave it at that, great. Smile
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 01:06 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2021, 11:19 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: 2. The church caring for victims of crime is a very worthy charity.

That isn't "charity." That is helping to repair the damage done to those victims during crimes, perpetrated by the leaders the church appointed to provide them guidance and help. That compensation is a moral, and now legal, duty, not charity.

If a thief gets caught stealing, and part of his sentence is financial restitution to his victims for the things he stole and sold, is that charity? This is your logic.

Now howsabout a reply to this? I understand you're busy, I just didn't want this point lost in the shuffle.

How is compensation "charity"?
Freedom isn't free.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-20-2021, 01:26 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-18-2021, 05:17 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: I really don't care enough to spend the time to correct your ignorance...


Well, in that case you'll have to forgive me for sticking with my fact claims.

Just so long as you concede that your post wasn't deliberately ignored.
You asked me to respond. I did. 
If you want to leave it at that, great. Smile

You don't have fact claims. You have naivety and willful ignorance. [Image: Eye_Roll.gif]
[Image: Bastard-Signature.jpg]
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-20-2021, 01:26 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: Just so long as you concede that your post wasn't deliberately ignored...

Uh... you mean like you ignored mine?

Lion Wrote:3. Show me the individual details of the mega-church pastors and we can inspect where their assets come from.

And I posted THIS.

I also posted this;  "God tells us that God owns everything? How does that work?"    And
which you also chose to ignore.

I've noted now that you usually fail to address any of our "too-hard-basket" comments, and
those you do respond to are nothing more than word salads which don't actually answer the
question in any meaningful way.

PS:  You said earlier that "I don't have to explain Joel Osteen's camel/eye of a needle problem.
And I already passed a judgement on him".

But...

I couldn't locate your explanation of how Osteen takes in an estimated $43 million a year in
collections at his church, according to the Orlando Sentinel,  or, as a church pastor can
afford to live in a $10.5 million home.   Link please.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-20-2021, 04:24 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(05-20-2021, 01:26 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: Just so long as you concede that your [TheGentlemanBastard's] post wasn't deliberately ignored...

Uh... you mean like you ignored mine?

You said...willfully inflammatory responses. 
You said...repeatedly confrontational attitude. 
You said... No value to forum.

Now you're disingenuously feigning interest in "respectful dialog" ???
Make up your mind. Reset the gutless coward punch negative rep you dolled out.
Then we can talk.

Quote:And I posted THIS.

I also posted this;  "God tells us that God owns everything? How does that work?"    And
which you also chose to ignore.

I've noted now that you usually fail to address any of our "too-hard-basket" comments, and
those you do respond to are nothing more than word salads which don't actually answer the
question in any meaningful way.[quote]

Whistling

Quote:PS:  You said earlier that "I don't have to explain Joel Osteen's camel/eye of a needle problem.
And I already passed a judgement on him".

But...

I couldn't locate your explanation of how Osteen takes in an estimated $43 million a year in
collections at his church, according to the Orlando Sentinel,  or, as a church pastor can
afford to live in a $10.5 million home.   Link please.

I don't have to explain Joel Osteen's camel/eye of a needle problem.
OH WAIT! I already said that.
Whistling
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 12:24 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: I don't have to explain Joel Osteen's camel/eye of a needle problem.
OH WAIT! I already said that.
Whistling

What you've completely failed at, is showing how Osteen's life style should remain tax exempt, or shown how it's an example of charity.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 03:57 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote:
(05-23-2021, 12:24 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: I don't have to explain Joel Osteen's camel/eye of a needle problem.
OH WAIT! I already said that.
Whistling

What you've completely failed at, is showing how Osteen's life style should remain tax exempt, or shown how it's an example of charity.

This is a straw argument.
Its not tax exemption for Mr Osteens lifestyle I'm defending.
It's tax exemption for charitable giving I'm defending because its unquestionably economically rational for the State to encourage private charity.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 04:08 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-23-2021, 03:57 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote:
(05-23-2021, 12:24 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: I don't have to explain Joel Osteen's camel/eye of a needle problem.
OH WAIT! I already said that.
Whistling

What you've completely failed at, is showing how Osteen's life style should remain tax exempt, or shown how it's an example of charity.

This is a straw argument.
Its not tax exemption for Mr Osteens lifestyle I'm defending.
It's tax exemption for charitable giving I'm defending because its unquestionably economically rational for the State to encourage private charity.

But he takes every single dime of his wealth from the church. All of it tax exempt, and none of it going to charity. If you believe otherwise, you're either incredible naive, incredibly ignorant, or both.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
Are there some people who fraudulently exploit tax exemptions for charities? Yes.
Does this mean all charities should be taxed? No.

Im not sure why you think im obliged to defend the former when its the latter which I'm addressing.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-18-2021, 11:51 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(05-18-2021, 11:19 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 08:43 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: @Lion IRC

Ignoring this?!?

1. I dont have to explain Joel Osteens camel/eye of a needle problem. And I already passed a judgement on him. Did you read what I wrote?

2. The church caring for victims of crime is a very worthy charity.

3. Show me the individual details of the mega-church pastors and we can inspect where their assets come from. 

4. "All these things" are in different categories and not all are paid out of untaxed charitable giving by parishioners.

You "passed a judgement" on him ?
"Judge not, lest ye be judged" ... so you know better than your Jebus. Got it.

re #4. Tell us exactly what categories are taxed, at what rate, and what proportions are taxed and not taxed.
(You have not the first clue what you're on about). ALL church income is tax exempt. You're just making up shit.
You are SO fucking ill-informed about this, and every subject ole fella. Time to hang it up, and retire from this Apologetic Horseshit thing ... you're REALLY bad at it.
No one has to show the "individual details" of mega-church crooks. We know what assets they started out with, (none) and what they have now.

bump ... waithing for exact answers. Oh, never mind. Maybe they worked extra jobs. That must be it.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 04:21 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: Are there some people who fraudulently exploit tax exemptions for charities? Yes.
Does this mean all charities should be taxed? No.

Im not sure why you think im obliged to defend the former when its the latter which I'm addressing.

For fuck's sake. Your just plain fucking clueless.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 12:24 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-20-2021, 04:24 PM)SYZ Wrote: Uh... you mean like you ignored mine?
Now you're disingenuously feigning interest in "respectful dialog" ???
Make up your mind. Reset the gutless coward punch negative rep you dolled out.
Then we can talk.

Fuck me...Percie's Jesus-cock-sucking mate has now spat the dummy too LOL.

What a couple of fucking cry babies!       Big Grin
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 04:08 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: It's tax exemption for charitable giving I'm defending because its unquestionably economically rational for the State to encourage private charity.

Even when that charity goes to support a lavish lifestyle rather than helping the truly needy? How is that in the state's interest?
Freedom isn't free.
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 10:13 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-23-2021, 04:08 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: It's tax exemption for charitable giving I'm defending because its unquestionably economically rational for the State to encourage private charity.

Even when that charity goes to support a lavish lifestyle rather than helping the truly needy? How is that in the state's interest?

And somehow it's bad if a poor person on welfare decides to spend a little on a luxury.
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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Tithes to churches or Universal Health Care
(05-23-2021, 11:05 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(05-23-2021, 10:13 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-23-2021, 04:08 AM)Lion IRC Wrote: It's tax exemption for charitable giving I'm defending because its unquestionably economically rational for the State to encourage private charity.

Even when that charity goes to support a lavish lifestyle rather than helping the truly needy? How is that in the state's interest?

And somehow it's bad if a poor person on welfare decides to spend a little on a luxury.

What if they take that welfare money and donate some to a church?

resim
Freedom isn't free.
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