Sister asked me to be 'God father' to her son

[Bucky Ball]

It is interesting that those who were unforunate enough to have been forced to endure the bs of American Fundamentalism, can't "see past" that, (as one would expect.). It's so different in Europe and some other places. It's OK, ... one just grows out of it. Meh, who cares. But in a way, religion still controlls how they (raised in Fundamentalism) respond. They haven't yet, and maybe never will, shed everything that religion did to them, ... which is understandable.

[SYZ]

The thing is guys as a very passionate Atheist as well, I don't feel comfortable, putting it aside, because I don't believe it...

I guess at the end of the day, it's important for your own peace of mind  that you would  feel
comfortable with being the kid's godfather, as it's a kind of long-term thing, and there's a
slim chance it could come back to bite you in a year or a decade or more.

Some religionists regard god-parenting very seriously, and may have expectations for the task
way beyond those of the potential godparent.

As atheists of course, we regard god-parenting as a quaint, anachronistic practise of a bygone
religious era.  I suppose, in your case, you have to weigh up the presumed "responsibilities" with
the potential of causing a fracture in your relationship with your sister and/or family should you
refuse.

As I said earlier here, me and my former wife agreed to be godparents to one of our friend's kids
(although of course I was an atheist at the time).  That was nearly 50 years ago, and I haven't
even  seen the kid once in all that time—nor our former friends either, the kid's parents.

[Dancefortwo]

Instead of a "god father" can you be a "flying spaghetti monster father"?   Just a quick thought.

[Dancefortwo]

Fucking double post.

[Cavebear]

Hi everyone,

So my sister was telling me today, her and husband were thinking about wanting to have myself as a 'God father' to their son. My sister started by saying, so was going to ask you, but I don't know how you feel on the matter. I told her the basic firebrand stuff, as an Atheist, I said all that shit is a joke. She says, while then I guess we can't have you do it. I responded it shouldn't be about religion at all, so you have a party, put some blessed water on the babe and Jesus saves. I said that's just all bullshit, it won't change anything for her son. I told her teach him, how to rely on himself and not need religion as a crutch. My sister responded, while that's the 'tradition'. She shut down about it, because as you all know, she had no answers to my facts or questions. I told, yes the tradition should be, good without faith and God. My sister, is not super religious thankfully, but just is that 'traditional have to have faith, because we all learned that way kind of thinking'. We were talking about how everyone is dealing with the Pandemic. She states 'while COVID was in the Bible , right as plague? I said no, that's all made up stories, an epic in a way. I think my sister was really hoping, I would share the same views on faith, some reinsurance.

I told her at the end of the day, this is her decision, I won't be involved in anything religion related. I said why waste your time, enjoy your time with your family, not worrying about anything religion related. My family has always known I strongly dislike all aspects related to religion or faith. They don't debt me ever anymore, as I leave them with too many questions about their faith. Also, because they don't want to think about the very hard questions, we Atheists ask them. Do you agree I handled this good, by telling her I wouldn't do it? Do you every feel, your too tough on the believers in your family? As anything with religion, I just can't stand it. Also my passion about Atheism really comes up, when my family talks about anything with religion, so it makes me not even double think, when someone asks me something like the title. Godfather is referred to as in the Catholic faith.

My Godmother was really religious. She tried to do the Godmother job with considerable work, but I never paid any attention to it. When my family visited her when I was a child, she tried to get me into a church. I wouldn't. She was rich. She finally said "If you don't go along, I will 'forget you'. A clear signal I wouldn't inherit anything from her if I wasn't religious.

I didn't. Never bothered me in the slightest. She's dead, her wealth went elsewhere. I smile.

[Finite Monkeys]

For the little it's worth, my sister asked me to be godfather to her youngest daughter. I checked she realised I was an atheist whereupon she explained that she and her husband were also atheists and they only wanted a notional godfather to give comfort to brother-in-law's mum.

After the ceremony, where I did not have my fingers crossed behind my back (honest), chatting with the godmother I found she was also atheist and taking part only for the benefit of the older generation who may or may not have been believers.

This was at a Church of England, Anglican place. We had no pre-ceremony training/brainwashing, we just had to pretend we were going to bring up the child in the way of mumble mumble mumble and protect her from Santa and his evil ways. Or maybe it was the ways of satin.

I got an "I'm a godfather" certificate which I think I have mislaid since. It's the taking part that counts.

[ghostexorcist]

My high school friend's daughter is my goddaughter, or at least she used to be. My friend is atheist but his (now ex) wife is Catholic. I was fine with the decision. During the ceremony, I replaced every verbal "God" or "Jesus" with "ball sack" in my head. Anyway, I'm no longer the god father on paper after my friend and his wife got a divorce. She "jokingly" suggested I was a pedophile because I wasn't dating much at the time. Real piece of work, her.

[Inkubus]

Regarding this 'godfather' advancing behaviour. Why not call it what it is?

Atheist or otherwise you're a willing percipient in the holy sacrament of baptism. Whereby the ju-ju man in his magic garb cites magic words over a small pond of magic water of a capacity not exceeding thirty gallons. Thirty, not forty. Fifty is right out.

Followed by tea and biscuits.

Was there ever a more farcical aquatic ceremony?



Christianity is comedy gold. The gift that keeps on giving.

Shire horses on speed couldn't drag me into a christening.

[Little Lunch]

Here's a scenario.
Sister doesn't want brother to feel left out.
She approaches him carefully because everyone in the family knows how intolerable and judgemental he becomes when anyone mentions religion.
But it's only about the honorary role of godfather and it's only a short ritual...maybe he'll respond positively.
Nope, she gets a full blown lecture/ putdown from him.
Not the first and probably not the last.
He knows he's much smarter than all of them because it's so simple and they just don't seem to get it, not matter how much he rants and raves.

The story is Tomato Shadow's but the character is me, twenty or so years ago, newly fledged atheist. :-)
And it was just a xtianing and I did eventually go, but I was a bit of an obnoxious fuckhead about it though.

[Tomatoshadow2]

@Finite Monkeys One thing I'm glad to see is the non-believer section in the US gets bigger and bigger, I can only dream of Atheism being so accepted as is in the UK. Do churches pay taxes there?

So update for everyone, first hope you are all well. So my mother was telling me a few weeks ago that my sister and brother in law held the baptism at a church, I asked 'so who did they pick?' My mother's response was two cousins of my brother in law, and I also asked, so how much does anyone in the group go to church? My mother's response was 'no one really, not to sure actually.' I just laughed so hard, so what was the big deal that I was an Atheist, I think to myself to 'because of a made up tradition.' It's the old saying everyone, 'the pot calling the kettle black.'

[mordant]

@Finite Monkeys One thing I'm glad to see is the non-believer section in the US gets bigger and bigger, I can only dream of Atheism being so accepted as is in the UK. Do churches pay taxes there?

So update for everyone, first hope you are all well. So my mother was telling me a few weeks ago that my sister and brother in law held the baptism at a church, I asked 'so who did they pick?' My mother's response was two cousins of my brother in law, and I also asked, so how much does anyone in the group go to church? My mother's response was 'no one really, not to sure actually.' I just laughed so hard, so what was the big deal that I was an Atheist, I think to myself to 'because of a made up tradition.' It's the old saying everyone, 'the pot calling the kettle black.'

It is generally true that people have far less malfunction with non-practicing theism than they do with outright atheism.

Even some liberal theists have bristled at my atheism. You don't get more liberal than Unitarian Universalist, and one of their pastors took great umbrage to me because although he takes in lapsed Hindus, Muslims, and Christians and many churches in his organization take in Atheists without blinking, that was a bridge too far for him (predictably, he was from the South). He took it very personally, as an insult, pretty much as any evangelical would.

More broadly, America seems particularly afflicted with the malady where you're not supposed to "rock the boat". "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it". Fragile, wounded egos abound. If anyone is uncomfortable because of something you said or failed to say / endorse / accede to, it MUST come from a desire to be rude, harsh, and an asshole. This is worst in the Midwest in my experience, but can be found all over.

[SYZ]

@Finite Monkeys One thing I'm glad to see is the non-believer section in the US gets bigger and bigger, I can only dream of Atheism being so accepted as is in the UK...

The US believers are still storming the bastions of 21st century scientific enlightenment...





In god we fucking trust indeed!      

[Aliza]

Regarding this 'godfather' advancing behaviour. Why not call it what it is?

Atheist or otherwise you're a willing percipient in the holy sacrament of baptism. Whereby the ju-ju man in his magic garb cites magic words over a small pond of magic water of a capacity not exceeding thirty gallons. Thirty, not forty. Fifty is right out.

Followed by tea and biscuits.

Was there ever a more farcical aquatic ceremony?



Christianity is comedy gold. The gift that keeps on giving.

Shire horses on speed couldn't drag me into a christening.

Okay, but I think branding is done with a searing hot iron and baptism is just words and water. -And apparently tea and biscuits.

[Inkubus]

Regarding this 'godfather' advancing behaviour. Why not call it what it is?

Atheist or otherwise you're a willing percipient in the holy sacrament of baptism. Whereby the ju-ju man in his magic garb cites magic words over a small pond of magic water of a capacity not exceeding thirty gallons. Thirty, not forty. Fifty is right out.

Followed by tea and biscuits.

Was there ever a more farcical aquatic ceremony?



Christianity is comedy gold. The gift that keeps on giving.

Shire horses on speed couldn't drag me into a christening.

Okay, but I think branding is done with a searing hot iron and baptism is just words and water. -And apparently tea and biscuits.

Most Christian churches see baptism as a once-in-a-lifetime event that can be neither repeated nor undone. They hold that those who have been baptized remain baptized, even if they renounce the Christian faith by adopting a non-Christian religion or by rejecting religion entirely. But some other organizations and individuals are practicing debaptism.

Wiki

Sounds pretty permanent to me.

[Aliza]

Okay, but I think branding is done with a searing hot iron and baptism is just words and water. -And apparently tea and biscuits.

Most Christian churches see baptism as a once-in-a-lifetime event that can be neither repeated nor undone. They hold that those who have been baptized remain baptized, even if they renounce the Christian faith by adopting a non-Christian religion or by rejecting religion entirely. But some other organizations and individuals are practicing debaptism.

Wiki

Sounds pretty permanent to me.

Okay, but it's water and words. Who gives a shit what they think? They're literally just thoughts.


And debatizing is just as pretend as baptizing. 

... It's not real! None of it is real!

[mordant]

Okay, but I think branding is done with a searing hot iron and baptism is just words and water. -And apparently tea and biscuits.

Most Christian churches see baptism as a once-in-a-lifetime event that can be neither repeated nor undone. They hold that those who have been baptized remain baptized, even if they renounce the Christian faith by adopting a non-Christian religion or by rejecting religion entirely. But some other organizations and individuals are practicing debaptism.

Wiki

Sounds pretty permanent to me.

Okay, but it's water and words. Who gives a shit what they think? They're literally just thoughts.


And debatizing is just as pretend as baptizing. 

... It's not real! None of it is real!

I totally agree, but beliefs and rituals are powerful influences. I mean, the belief that the election was fraudulent and that Trump is some kind of savior figure is just thoughts but nevertheless those thoughts are manifest in actions, as we saw last week.

I can understand someone not wanting to participate in thoughts or rituals that perpetuate ignorance, suffering or exploitation, and doubly so if they were personally harmed by same in the past.

While I agree that in the general case, being asked to be a godparent or similar can be an innocuous / pleasant experience if you choose to make it so, not everyone can so choose. The flip side of that is that no one should be even subtly coerced into it by social pressure. if you can't freely choose to do it without discomfort, then you probably shouldn't.

[Aliza]

Wiki

Sounds pretty permanent to me.

Okay, but it's water and words. Who gives a shit what they think? They're literally just thoughts.


And debatizing is just as pretend as baptizing. 

... It's not real! None of it is real!

I totally agree, but beliefs and rituals are powerful influences. I mean, the belief that the election was fraudulent and that Trump is some kind of savior figure is just thoughts but nevertheless those thoughts are manifest in actions, as we saw last week.

I can understand someone not wanting to participate in thoughts or rituals that perpetuate ignorance, suffering or exploitation, and doubly so if they were personally harmed by same in the past.

While I agree that in the general case, being asked to be a godparent or similar can be an innocuous / pleasant experience if you choose to make it so, not everyone can so choose. The flip side of that is that no one should be even subtly coerced into it by social pressure. if you can't freely choose to do it without discomfort, then you probably shouldn't.

Your point is well taken about beliefs being strong social influencers. It just seems to me that if you make the decision to not believe in Christianity, then you should feel comfortable saying that baptism is bullshit and none of it was real. Otherwise, you still believe in it... right? (Sorry if that's offensive to anyone. I just don't understand.)

[Inkubus]

Okay, but it's water and words. Who gives a shit what they think? They're literally just thoughts.


And debatizing is just as pretend as baptizing. 

... It's not real! None of it is real!

Of course we know it's not real. But the Vatican has had sixteen hundred years to perfect its business model and many millions of silly twats have bought it, they are assimilated.

Sixteen centuries of fucking up perfectly decent minds.

[Gwaithmir]

Okay, but it's water and words. Who gives a shit what they think? They're literally just thoughts.


And debatizing is just as pretend as baptizing. 

... It's not real! None of it is real!
[/quote Wrote:Of course we know it's not real. But the Vatican has had sixteen hundred years to perfect its business model and many millions of silly twats have bought it, they are assimilated.

Sixteen centuries of fucking up perfectly decent minds.

I have a Certificate of De-Baptism from American Atheists. 

[mordant]

Okay, but it's water and words. Who gives a shit what they think? They're literally just thoughts.


And debatizing is just as pretend as baptizing. 

... It's not real! None of it is real!

I totally agree, but beliefs and rituals are powerful influences. I mean, the belief that the election was fraudulent and that Trump is some kind of savior figure is just thoughts but nevertheless those thoughts are manifest in actions, as we saw last week.

I can understand someone not wanting to participate in thoughts or rituals that perpetuate ignorance, suffering or exploitation, and doubly so if they were personally harmed by same in the past.

While I agree that in the general case, being asked to be a godparent or similar can be an innocuous / pleasant experience if you choose to make it so, not everyone can so choose. The flip side of that is that no one should be even subtly coerced into it by social pressure. if you can't freely choose to do it without discomfort, then you probably shouldn't.

Your point is well taken about beliefs being strong social influencers. It just seems to me that if you make the decision to not believe in Christianity, then you should feel comfortable saying that baptism is bullshit and none of it was real. Otherwise, you still believe in it... right? (Sorry if that's offensive to anyone. I just don't understand.)

I think the aversion of the OP is to participating. That can be residual belief, but I'd imagine it's mostly aversion to the beliefs of others. You can find a belief revolting or harmful while not believing it yourself.

I just finished watching a documentary about the 1980s "night stalker" serial killer in California. From what I could gather he was not a Satanist but liked to act like one as a provocation, which played particularly well to generate terror in the Hispanic community he was part of, which was more superstitious around such things than average. Satanism (or a belief in Satan as the embodiment of evil) is just a belief with no more real evidentiary basis than theism. But he used it to his advantage. There were people who feared him because they believed in Satan[ism] themselves, and there were people who feared and/or hated him because HE either believed in or promoted Satan[ism]. There were even fans who loved him for the same reasons.

I don't know that anyone here is uncomfortable saying baptism is bullshit, but rather are uncomfortable with the concretely demonstrable hold baptism has on people's thinking and actions and therefore their subculture. Such a hold is amplified and enabled by active or tacit assent / lack of pushback. Speaking only for myself, there are a lot of battles I could fight and this just isn't one that I choose, probably in part because infant baptism / god parenting is not part of my religion of origin anyway. But I understand why some don't want to give credence to it and want to actively oppose it -- and why they understand it has power, even if only because of what people allow to happen in between their own ears.

[Tomatoshadow2]

@mordant I can see your observation. It's also the issue that in this time period in our lives, that religion is still even a thing. Also, I just can't stand the fact that my sister would influence her kids with such stupid bullshit. I imagine most of you would agree, not many religious people use critical thinking, when it comes to anything about religion.

[Inkubus]

Dude. You need a hobby, or a shag, or something.

[Tomatoshadow2]

@Inkubus Speaking here with you is a hobby, I just get very passionate when it comes to things involving my Atheism and how it affects people around me. It's not cool for me to always have to battle others on it.

[SYZ]

@Inkubus Speaking here with you is a hobby, I just get very passionate when it comes to things involving my Atheism and how it affects people around me. It's not cool for me to always have to battle others on it.

I note that you say you have to battle religious zealotry.  Why exactly?  What about live
and let live?  I can't really see how you and your sister's discord is helping in any positive
way as far as your ongoing family relationships are concerned.

—Discretion is the better part of valour.