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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."

"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."



The religiously insane should be pitied.  Feared, but pitied.
“Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. 
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
Man, I ain't watching nine-and-a-half minutes of bullshit.
On hiatus.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-09-2020, 01:35 PM)Fireball Wrote: Facepalm  Yup, Al Gore.

It is refreshing to see anyone admit an error.   Thumbs Up   And I am terrible with names sometimes myself.  It is worse when it is family.  At a Thanksgiving Dinner many years ago, there were 4 nieces* among the crowd, all of about the same age and dress (fashion rules among teens) and I hadn't seen any of them since their childhood years (we are a far-flung family).  Well, I could never get straight who was who.  I don't have great facial-recognition skills.

I couldn't really request that they stick labels on themselves, though that sure would have helped.  They took it in good spirits and I didn't mind the occasional teasing.  If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't have the right to laugh about others.  When it came time to make toasts, I mentioned I had 4 wonderful nieces, whichever one is which.  That got smiles and chuckles; my family knows my weaknesses.

* Speaking of names...  A joke:  A pregnant woman was in an accident and went into a coma.  A year later, she woke up.  Realizing she wasn't pregnant anymore more, she asked to doctor about it.  The doctor told her she had delivered 2 healthy babies, a boy and a girl.  But he advised her that for legal reasons, they had to be given names and they had asked her brother to do that.  

The woman was horrified.  "My brother is an idiot, she cried".  And asked what names they were given.  The girl was named "Denice" he said.  The woman decided that was a good name.  And my son, she asked?  "Denephew".   Tongue
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 04:27 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(11-09-2020, 01:35 PM)Fireball Wrote: Facepalm  Yup, Al Gore.

It is refreshing to see anyone admit an error.   Thumbs Up   And I am terrible with names sometimes myself.  It is worse when it is family.  At a Thanksgiving Dinner many years ago, there were 4 nieces* among the crowd, all of about the same age and dress (fashion rules among teens) and I hadn't seen any of them since their childhood years (we are a far-flung family).  Well, I could never get straight who was who.  I don't have great facial-recognition skills.

I couldn't really request that they stick labels on themselves, though that sure would have helped.  They took it in good spirits and I didn't mind the occasional teasing.  If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't have the right to laugh about others.  When it came time to make toasts, I mentioned I had 4 wonderful nieces, whichever one is which.  That got smiles and chuckles; my family knows my weaknesses.

* Speaking of names...  A joke:  A pregnant woman was in an accident and went into a coma.  A year later, she woke up.  Realizing she wasn't pregnant anymore more, she asked to doctor about it.  The doctor told her she had delivered 2 healthy babies, a boy and a girl.  But he advised her that for legal reasons, they had to be given names and they had asked her brother to do that.  

The woman was horrified.  "My brother is an idiot, she cried".  And asked what names they were given.  The girl was named "Denice" he said.  The woman decided that was a good name.  And my son, she asked?  "Denephew".   Tongue

ROFL2  I've heard that joke before, grandpa!  Big Grin  I'm open to when I've made a mistake, and to own it. I've stood in front of government investigators when shit went sideways, and have stated the simple truth. Lying gets you talked about in ways you won't enjoy, at the very least. One program I worked on, we had a test equipment problem. I immediately surfaced it with management, and the customer was brought in on it. We worked our way through it, and had resolution. One of the consultants (i.e., hatchet man) came to me later and told me that he thought that I had shot myself and my company in the foot by surfacing the problem. I explained that hiding the problem would have been a much bigger issue later. Consultants are there to make certain that the gov isn't wasting their money, and I appreciate that, because it's my money, too. I've always busted my ass (and my brain) to make certain that the US public got what they paid for.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-09-2020, 12:13 PM)abaris Wrote:
(11-09-2020, 07:24 AM)Cavebear Wrote: 2.  W was not up to the job.  But at least he wasn't mean.

Back when he was in office, I thought he was stupid and his advisors as mean as they get. Well, I hadn't seen the rise of the tea party or Trump back then, but I made the prediction, that one of the next times, the Reps would pick one of their next cadidates from a tree. Trump got as close as they come to that prediction.

Well, yes, in hindsight, Shrub seems like a moderate. And I doubt, he would get any nomination with today's rapublicans. An imperial wizard of the KKK seems more likely to win their hearts.

By "up a tree" I guess you mean either monkeys or squirrels. Both fit. Wink

When Reagan was elected, I thought he was close to the dumbest President ever. Then Bush Jr came along and I thought HE was (kind and civil, but dumb). I could not even conceive of "Trump". When he announced he was running for President I laughed. Who would possibly vote for such a (fill in the space here with the multiple pejoratives of your choice). When he was nominated, I figured the 2016 election would be a blowout of McGovern proportions.

Hillary Clinton was experienced as First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State and smart as a whip. Trump was a failed real estate agent and reality show host. A walk-over for sure. Hardly worth bothering to stand in line to vote ( I did).

Shows you what *I* know! I nearly went into shock when Trump won. There are large groups of people here in the US I didn't really understand. Angry White Guys, Religious Fanatics, Suburbanites fearing "invasion" domestically and from abroad. They were wrapped up in their little world and I didn't see their world.

I am in my own little world too (I now realize). I read newspapers and informational magazines. I watch certain cable channels. I visit certain internet sites. I hobnob with fellow atheists at some sites and liberals/progressives at others. I visit gardening forums, not gun forums.

I got out of touch with "the others".

It is a relief that Joe Biden is President-elect (pending the official Electoral College vote). But Trump got 70 million votes (Biden 74 million). That isn't a lot of difference. I think I better start reading around a bit more. I hardly expect it will change my mind on anything, but you don't have to comment at a site to understand what people think there. For example, I knew an atheist gun-toting fanatic on a site years ago and I just dismissed him from my mind. Maybe I should have paid more attention to why he thought that way. He certainly voted for Trump both times.

We agreed about atheism. Maybe we would have agreed on some few other things if I had asked. Not everything, obviously, but some.

Maybe it is time that we pull both parties toward the center a bit. Farmers in the Red States grow crops and need to profit. I gotta eat at a cost I can afford in my Blue State. My car runs on gas and it doesn't come from a well in my backyard so it has to come from "somewhere" where people pump oil up and refine it. I don't eat much meat, but I eat some; cows aren't jumping into butcher shops themselves last I checked. Someone is raising them.

We need to find some agreements instead of just fighting for one side or the other. Food and fuel are not winner-take-all decisions; they are rational let's-make-things-work decisions.
Never try to catch a dropped kitchen knife!
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
I agree with you but it takes two to tango.

I don't see any dance partners on the far right.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 04:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Man, I ain't watching nine-and-a-half minutes of bullshit.

You only need the first nine seconds. Dodgy
“Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. 
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 05:03 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 04:27 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(11-09-2020, 01:35 PM)Fireball Wrote: Facepalm  Yup, Al Gore.

It is refreshing to see anyone admit an error.   Thumbs Up   And I am terrible with names sometimes myself.  It is worse when it is family.  At a Thanksgiving Dinner many years ago, there were 4 nieces* among the crowd, all of about the same age and dress (fashion rules among teens) and I hadn't seen any of them since their childhood years (we are a far-flung family).  Well, I could never get straight who was who.  I don't have great facial-recognition skills.

I couldn't really request that they stick labels on themselves, though that sure would have helped.  They took it in good spirits and I didn't mind the occasional teasing.  If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't have the right to laugh about others.  When it came time to make toasts, I mentioned I had 4 wonderful nieces, whichever one is which.  That got smiles and chuckles; my family knows my weaknesses.

* Speaking of names...  A joke:  A pregnant woman was in an accident and went into a coma.  A year later, she woke up.  Realizing she wasn't pregnant anymore more, she asked to doctor about it.  The doctor told her she had delivered 2 healthy babies, a boy and a girl.  But he advised her that for legal reasons, they had to be given names and they had asked her brother to do that.  

The woman was horrified.  "My brother is an idiot, she cried".  And asked what names they were given.  The girl was named "Denice" he said.  The woman decided that was a good name.  And my son, she asked?  "Denephew".   Tongue

ROFL2  I've heard that joke before, grandpa!  Big Grin  I'm open to when I've made a mistake, and to own it. I've stood in front of government investigators when shit went sideways, and have stated the simple truth. Lying gets you talked about in ways you won't enjoy, at the very least. One program I worked on, we had a test equipment problem. I immediately surfaced it with management, and the customer was brought in on it. We worked our way through it, and had resolution. One of the consultants (i.e., hatchet man) came to me later and told me that he thought that I had shot myself and my company in the foot by surfacing the problem. I explained that hiding the problem would have been a much bigger issue later. Consultants are there to make certain that the gov isn't wasting their money, and I appreciate that, because it's my money, too. I've always busted my ass (and my brain) to make certain that the US public got what they paid for.

Glad to hear about your efforts. I had my own fights with Management too. They can be career-killers, but I slept well at night and enjoyed my job. I routinely saved the Federal Govt about a million per year and they paid me a tenth. Which was more than I ever expected when I managed a 1/4 of a department store at 10 cents per hour over minimum wage before then. LOL!
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 05:27 AM)Chas Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 04:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Man, I ain't watching nine-and-a-half minutes of bullshit.

You only need the first nine seconds. Dodgy

Not your first rodeo Smile
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 05:27 AM)Chas Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 04:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Man, I ain't watching nine-and-a-half minutes of bullshit.

You only need the first nine seconds. Dodgy

I struggled to get through that much.
On hiatus.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 06:07 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 05:27 AM)Chas Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 04:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Man, I ain't watching nine-and-a-half minutes of bullshit.

You only need the first nine seconds. Dodgy

I struggled to get through that much.

I hadn't clicked on the video previously, but recent comments made me curious. So I went back and clicked... Yeah, about 9 seconds was all I could stand.

How do some people become THAT crazy? I want to think that they are charlatans, but I'm not sure anyone can keep up a "fake" like that, that long. They really must believe that stuff. People like them scare the crap out of me sometimes! They are usually parents. They vote. AACK!
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 05:12 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I could not even conceive of "Trump".  When he announced he was running for President I laughed.  Who would possibly vote for such a (fill in the space here with the multiple pejoratives of your choice).  When he was nominated, I figured the 2016 election would be a blowout of McGovern proportions.

I even posted a thread called "Another idiot enters the Republican race" over at the Atheist forums when he announced. In my wildest dreams I couldn't imagine him winning the primaries, let alone the election.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 10:41 AM)abaris Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 05:12 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I could not even conceive of "Trump".  When he announced he was running for President I laughed.  Who would possibly vote for such a (fill in the space here with the multiple pejoratives of your choice).  When he was nominated, I figured the 2016 election would be a blowout of McGovern proportions.

I even posted a thread called "Another idiot enters the Republican race" over at the Atheist forums when he announced. In my wildest dreams I couldn't imagine him winning the primaries, let alone the election.

It isn't Trump who worries me. He is essentially gone now. It is the trumpists who remain. The crazies are still there looking for the next Leader. I expect Cruz, but who knows where some new rock will be turned over.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 11:43 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I expect Cruz, but who knows where some new rock will be turned over.

Cruz? We're really talking about Ted Cruz here?

I'm not an expert on American politics, but Ted Cruz seems to be the most miserable turncoat and suckup on the scene. Disliked even by a solid proportion of his own party. Him a leader?
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 11:57 AM)abaris Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 11:43 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I expect Cruz, but who knows where some new rock will be turned over.

Cruz? We're really talking about Ted Cruz here?

I'm not an expert on American politics, but Ted Cruz seems to be the most miserable turncoat and suckup on the scene. Disliked even by a solid proportion of his own party. Him a leader?

Solid reasons for him being the next "Trump". He is a complete ass, utterly firm in his beliefs in public, and willing to say and do almost anything to advance his career.
Never try to catch a dropped kitchen knife!
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 12:05 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Solid reasons for him being the next "Trump".  He is a complete ass, utterly firm in his beliefs in public, and willing to say and do almost anything to advance his career.

When Trump insulted his wife on a most vulgar level, he had a moment of outrage and was next seen working the phones for the Trump campaign. This man's a follower, a sucker of the first order. That's not a leader to incite the rabble as Trump has done.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 12:10 PM)abaris Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 12:05 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Solid reasons for him being the next "Trump".  He is a complete ass, utterly firm in his beliefs in public, and willing to say and do almost anything to advance his career.

When Trump insulted his wife on a most vulgar level, he had a moment of outrage and was next seen working the phones for the Trump campaign. This man's a follower, a sucker of the first order. That's not a leader to incite the rabble as Trump has done.

I assume you mean Cruz's wife. Trump has insulted his own wife (wives? - I forget). But I think the trumpists will take the best they can get and Cruz is clearly angling for the job. My current bet for 2024 Republican presidential candidate is Chris Christie but MD Gov Larry Hogan is a player.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
Fox News pulls plug on Trump spokeswoman making baseless claims of fraud

Moments into a Trump campaign press conference on Monday afternoon at which White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany charged that Democrats were “welcoming fraud” and “illegal voting,” Fox News host Neil Cavuto had heard enough.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa, I just think we have to be very clear. She’s charging the other side is welcoming fraud and welcoming illegal voting,” Cavuto said, interrupting the video feed of the briefing, which McEnany said she was conducting in her “personal capacity” rather than in her official White House role. “Unless she has more details to back that up I can’t in good countenance continue showing you this. I want to make sure that maybe they do have something to back that up, but that’s an explosive charge to make — that the other side is effectively rigging and cheating.”

https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-pulls-pl..._test=2_04
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 01:00 PM)Dom Wrote: Fox News pulls plug on Trump spokeswoman making baseless claims of fraud

Moments into a Trump campaign press conference on Monday afternoon at which White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany charged that Democrats were “welcoming fraud” and “illegal voting,” Fox News host Neil Cavuto had heard enough.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa, I just think we have to be very clear. She’s charging the other side is welcoming fraud and welcoming illegal voting,” Cavuto said, interrupting the video feed of the briefing, which McEnany said she was conducting in her “personal capacity” rather than in her official White House role. “Unless she has more details to back that up I can’t in good countenance continue showing you this. I want to make sure that maybe they do have something to back that up, but that’s an explosive charge to make — that the other side is effectively rigging and cheating.”

https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-pulls-pl..._test=2_04

I saw a replay of that. Imagine Fox bailing on a Trump spokesperson! Brings to mind rats leaving a sinking ship.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
I woke up this morning and turned on the news. For a few minutes I thought I was in Romania.
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
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And about 1000% more likely to think that you're greatest country in the world and everybody else envies your greatness  Deadpan Coffee Drinker
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-05-2020, 09:31 PM)Aegon Wrote: Any EU folks here have a good suggestion on where to move, assuming coronavirus doesn't kill me first? I'm going to get my Irish citizenship sometime in the next year so I figure that will make it easier to move around.

I'm a far-left stoner with communications and government relations experience. I know a little bit of Spanish from high school. Let me know if you're hiring.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/

Join the civil or public service.  The pay is decent, the hours are pretty good.  The flexibility and pension are both great.
Factio Republicanus delenda est!
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-06-2020, 12:26 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:58 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 08:44 PM)jerryg Wrote: Jesus Christ. You call them nazi's left and right, try to remove their freedom of speech, and try to get them fired, and boycott them, and there's a pretty strong undercurrent of wanting to see them hurt and die.

Then you play the victim card? Holy guacamole.

I don't tell anybody in real life I voted for Trump. I don't know anybody who voted for Trump. Because we keep our heads down, because you fuckers are out of your minds.

(i'm sure this is different if you live in east buttfuck, mississippi, but I live in a very purple state, and I see almost no signs of Trump support)


Yeah, we know.  You nazis HATE being called nazis.  It's your own fault, asshole.

Minimalist, has it ever occurred to you that you make this situation worse every time you post something like this?

He's not. The fuckheads are going to be fuckheads no matter how you approach them.  At least by calling them out as fuckheads you're letting them know you know what they are.

One of the reasons fascism and nazism held on to power so long is that otherwise reasonable people tried to treat them normally in the hopes that they'd magically become normal.  If there'd been a concerted effort to push them back earlier we wouldn't have had the gas chambers.  And a big part of the not pushing them back was according them a respect they didn't deserve.

We're back doing the same with the far right now that what our ancestors did in the early 30's.
Factio Republicanus delenda est!
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-06-2020, 04:44 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote:
(11-06-2020, 04:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(11-06-2020, 03:54 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: People! We've had one civil war in the US in 244 years. I don't think we'll have another one any time soon. Remember, the presidential election of 1864 was held during the "War of the Rebellion". The English thought we were nuts for even trying to that.

I truly hope you're right, brotha.

The biggest inhibitor to a civil war is geographical. Despite the look of the electoral maps, it's not a north vs. south or east vs. west ideological split, but an urban vs. rural ideological split. It's hard enough to fight a war with two fronts (just ask Herr Hitler), but to fight a war with multiple fronts in every state would be impossible.

I could see ambush warfare using terrorist tactics and a long, long, smoldering campaign where no-one really knows who or where the enemies are instead of a conventional style war. I think it would also be more devastating than a conventional war.

We as a nation are more deeply divided than we have been since the Civil War, possibly more so now than then. While I think a new Civil War is not likely, I don't think it would take much agitation by a wannabe militia group or two to spark one. The time between now and Jan. 20th frightens me more than any other time in my life. We have an absolute rogue in the White House who is furious at being tossed out like a week old sandwich. There's no telling what kind of shit he'll stir if he ever shifts focus from fighting the election results.

That's actually the way most civil wars are fought.  The US one was a massive exception to the general trend.
Factio Republicanus delenda est!
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"No matter who wins this election, America is already weaker for it."
(11-10-2020, 04:34 PM)Brian Shanahan Wrote:
(11-06-2020, 12:26 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(11-05-2020, 10:58 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Yeah, we know.  You nazis HATE being called nazis.  It's your own fault, asshole.

Minimalist, has it ever occurred to you that you make this situation worse every time you post something like this?

He's not. The fuckheads are going to be fuckheads no matter how you approach them.  At least by calling them out as fuckheads you're letting them know you know what they are.

One of the reasons fascism and nazism held on to power so long is that otherwise reasonable people tried to treat them normally in the hopes that they'd magically become normal.  If there'd been a concerted effort to push them back earlier we wouldn't have had the gas chambers.  And a big part of the not pushing them back was according them a respect they didn't deserve.

We're back doing the same with the far right now that what our ancestors did in the early 30's.

By all means, Minimalist should call a spade a spade.  I'm just challenging his over-generalizations.  His kind of talk is just too easy and exciting to be accurate.
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