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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)

The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 07:39 PM)SYZ Wrote: Read my lips: there is NO fucking "chance" for Trump.  

There is one chance. A coup attempt with certain republican states not voting according to the results of the election. With the GOP in it's current state, I wouldn't put that out of the range of possibilities.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 07:39 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 11:52 AM)Aractus Wrote: What we have at the moment is a contested election...

No.  "We" do not have a contested election.  It's been called.   Get over it mate; your hero lost.

Remember the "eat crow" you recommended to me?  How's that crow taste now wanker?  Tough?

Quote:Really it's an outside chance for Trump.

Fuck me... you're never gonna give up your crusade are you?  

Read my lips: there is NO fucking "chance" for Trump.  

—Well, except of course the likelihood of jail in the not-too-distant future.

Trumpleforskin does still have a path back to the White House, though it's a not a path ARat'sAss has considered, nor is it a path ever before trodden. Republican governors could send slates of faithless electors to the college to vote against the will of the people of their state, legally giving the Presidency back to the orange chuckle-fuck. Doing so would incite civil unrest and rioting to make the BLM protests look like friendly pub disagreements, and it would spell the end of democracy as it's understood in America, but it could be done.

The shit ARat'sAss is flinging at the wall in hopes that something sticks is honestly just fucking sad. While the guy in his video is correct, they will find fraudulent votes, they will not find enough to overturn the count, nor will they find evidence of widespread intentional fraud. What they'll find is ballots from the absent minded who voted early, forgot they voted, and voted again on election day or some such similar incidents. No one will be fined, no one will be jailed.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
That doesn't sound good as well.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...dent-trump

Quote:Secretary of State Michael Pompeo said Tuesday there will be a “smooth transition to a second Trump administration,” a remark which may have been in jest but throws fuel on the president’s unsubstantiated claims that the Nov. 3 election was fraudulent.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 08:01 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: Trumpleforskin does still have a path back to the White House, though it's a not a path ARat'sAss has considered, nor is it a path ever before trodden. Republican governors could send slates of faithless electors to the college to vote against the will of the people of their state, legally giving the Presidency back to the orange chuckle-fuck. Doing so would incite civil unrest and rioting to make the BLM protests look like friendly pub disagreements, and it would spell the end of democracy as it's understood in America, but it could be done.

The shit ARat'sAss is flinging at the wall in hopes that something sticks is honestly just fucking sad. While the guy in his video is correct, they will find fraudulent votes, they will not find enough to overturn the count, nor will they find evidence of widespread intentional fraud. What they'll find is ballots from the absent minded who voted early, forgot they voted, and voted again on election day or some such similar incidents. No one will be fined, no one will be jailed.

Sending slates of faithless electors would be the easiest way for these policiticans to make sure they never get reelected. 
I don't think they are that dumb ... and it's been discussed and eliminated in a few states already.
Test
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 09:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 08:01 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: Trumpleforskin does still have a path back to the White House, though it's a not a path ARat'sAss has considered, nor is it a path ever before trodden. Republican governors could send slates of faithless electors to the college to vote against the will of the people of their state, legally giving the Presidency back to the orange chuckle-fuck. Doing so would incite civil unrest and rioting to make the BLM protests look like friendly pub disagreements, and it would spell the end of democracy as it's understood in America, but it could be done.

The shit ARat'sAss is flinging at the wall in hopes that something sticks is honestly just fucking sad. While the guy in his video is correct, they will find fraudulent votes, they will not find enough to overturn the count, nor will they find evidence of widespread intentional fraud. What they'll find is ballots from the absent minded who voted early, forgot they voted, and voted again on election day or some such similar incidents. No one will be fined, no one will be jailed.

Sending slates of faithless electors would be the easiest way for these policiticans to make sure they never get reelected. 
I don't think they are that dumb ... and it's been discussed and eliminated in a few states already.

I never said it was likely. In fact, I said "it would spell the end of democracy as it's understood in America." But it is Trumpleforeskin's only legal path back to the White House following this election.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 05:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 03:08 PM)Dānu Wrote: Oh, go fuck yourself, Alan...

Is there any particular reason as to why you so frequently respond to people with open hostility?
I know you've done a similar sort of thing with some of my reposes to your posts—which doesn't
overly concern me—but Alan's comments are invariably thoughtful, well meaning, and nicely
articulated. And, particularly after he'd already apologised and tried to clarify his earlier comment,
there was no need for your foul-mouthed rejoinder.

It just makes you look silly, rather than it does Alan.      Dodgy

I respond to some of yours with contempt because you're not infrequently guilty of being dishonest and manipulative in your responses. I responded to Alan as I did for, after having tried to pass off a fluff opinion piece as factual support for his opinion, he then tried to poison the well against any criticism by labeling my request a "homework assignment." Apparently in TTA world, being asked to support your points is somehow inappropriate. No wonder Seth pulled the plug on it. Any other questions?
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 08:27 PM)abaris Wrote: That doesn't sound good as well.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...dent-trump

Quote:Secretary of State Michael Pompeo said Tuesday there will be a “smooth transition to a second Trump administration,” a remark which may have been in jest but throws fuel on the president’s unsubstantiated claims that the Nov. 3 election was fraudulent.

Aw fuck. Sorry, everyone.
Sorry about that asshole Pompeo. Yep. He's from Kansas. Fucking cunt.
Also just listened to that Twat Moran, talk about the election investigations - like, oooooh there's a thing he gets to tell people. Facepalm

I'm going to bet the next 4 years & beyond is going to follow the formula of batting down unsubstantiated, alternative facts. That should get nothing done. Dodgy
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 11:25 AM)Alan V Wrote: Trumpism is particularly vulnerable to dissolution because it depends so heavily on one aging, mercurial figure.  It's also incoherent and anti-democratic.

Trump was just the latest in the line of GoP candidates whom the nutcase conservatives follow. With each election for some generations now, we have seen the Republican president become progressively worse in how he treats the country, yet he continually maintains followers. The issue is not a single man so much as it is the Republican party. If not careful, there will come a time when the Republican party will be too large to be overcome by the Democrats, and I fear that time is fast approaching.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 02:09 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 11:25 AM)Alan V Wrote: Trumpism is particularly vulnerable to dissolution because it depends so heavily on one aging, mercurial figure.  It's also incoherent and anti-democratic.

Trump was just the latest in the line of GoP candidates whom the nutcase conservatives follow. With each election for some generations now, we have seen the Republican president become progressively worse in how he treats the country, yet he continually maintains followers. The issue is not a single man so much as it is the Republican party. If not careful, there will come a time when the Republican party will be too large to be overcome by the Democrats, and I fear that time is fast approaching.

Sucks to be woke, doesn't it?
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 03:19 AM)mordant Wrote: Sucks to be woke, doesn't it?

It just means I'll also be smart enough to leave the country and not be caught off guard like a Jew at the onset of WWII.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 03:22 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:19 AM)mordant Wrote: Sucks to be woke, doesn't it?

It just means I'll also be smart enough to leave the country and not be caught off guard like a Jew at the onset of WWII.

Yeah my wife is not liking the notion of leaving our perfect little house decorated just as she likes it but I keep reminding her of that story about (I think it was) Poland where you could get out for a couple weeks after the Nazis came in if you were willing to leave it all behind -- and that's not even what we're contemplating. A rented townhome rather than an owned private home, say, and downsizing possessions a bit ... in exchange for being as detached from US politics as we currently are from Canadian politics? In exchange for at least an adequate version of M4A rather than all the constant naysayers who insist it's utopian nonsense and it can't be done? It's starting to look like a fucking no-brainer to me.

The devil is, of course, in the details. Like the eensy detail that the Canadian border is closed right now and most of the rest of the planet also doesn't want Americans because Covid.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 03:36 AM)mordant Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:22 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:19 AM)mordant Wrote: Sucks to be woke, doesn't it?

It just means I'll also be smart enough to leave the country and not be caught off guard like a Jew at the onset of WWII.

Yeah my wife is not liking the notion of leaving our perfect little house decorated just as she likes it but I keep reminding her of that story about (I think it was) Poland where you could get out for a couple weeks after the Nazis came in if you were willing to leave it all behind -- and that's not even what we're contemplating. A rented townhome rather than an owned private home, say, and downsizing possessions a bit ... in exchange for being as detached from US politics as we currently are from Canadian politics? In exchange for at least an adequate version of M4A rather than all the constant naysayers who insist it's utopian nonsense and it can't be done? It's starting to look like a fucking no-brainer to me.

The devil is, of course, in the details. Like the eensy detail that the Canadian border is closed right now and most of the rest of the planet also doesn't want Americans because Covid.

As for the Canadian border being closed, per se, I'd imagine that they have a place where the potentially infected can be quarantined until they have been determined not to be unclean. Anyone from Canada know?
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 03:22 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:19 AM)mordant Wrote: Sucks to be woke, doesn't it?

It just means I'll also be smart enough to leave the country and not be caught off guard like a Jew at the onset of WWII.

Could everyone take a step back from the gas chambers?  It's not 70 million nazi white supremacist fascist republikkkunts.  It's 69.99 million people who are distrustful of change even though it may be in their own interest.  People who are wary of illegal immigration and any benefits illegal immigration holds for working class Americans.  People who, overall, have reasonable good experiences with cops (i.e. comply and don't wrestle with) and want the US to have a strong ass military (though they may have not thought in the least about the trade-offs that entails).  People whose parents are immigrants from countries with less opportunity and real experience and bad histories with the glory of socialism and communism.  People who flee Democratic run cities and states for safer and more prosperous and stable pastures.  These are your fellow Americans.  Chill the fuck out with the genocide bullshit, it's an insult to people around the globe who actually suffer real govt oppression.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-10-2020, 07:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 11:52 AM)Aractus Wrote: What we have at the moment is a contested election. bla bla bla

You actually have nothing, at the moment. The US election is not something you have. 
Americans have an election that is over, and it is not "contested". It is not possible for any state outcome to reverse with enough votes to change the Electoral College totals.
There are no serious legal questions before any court that question any state's vote outcome. 

The fact that a person of questionable mental ability and stability happens to have gotten into office, and now refuses to leave will take care of itself, shortly. Since Saturday morning, the US Secret Service has been functioning for the President-elect, and they will follow through, if need be. John Roberts is not going to swear anyone into office, other than Joseph Biden, on January 20th, regarless of what uninformed foreigner's opinions are.

"Your words in gods ear canal" as we say here.
I am still a bit worried about current events unfolding over there..... Dodgy
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 12:05 AM)Dānu Wrote: I responded to Alan as I did for, after having tried to pass off a fluff opinion piece as factual support for his opinion, he then tried to poison the well against any criticism by labeling my request a "homework assignment." 

That is your interpretation of what happened.  I don't agree.  I never asserted that my opinion was any more than an opinion.  You were the one who thought otherwise and said I should back it up with solid research when I had no idea whether there was any such research.  The information I posted was to offer the source of the opinion, not to claim that it was solid research.  In any case, as I also mentioned, such solid research is often lacking for such complex social interactions, and I wasn't about to do the homework to dig something up for you for a point which simply wasn't worth the effort.

You are a victim of your own inappropriate expectations.

Alan V Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 04:27 AM)Dānu Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 01:17 AM)Alan V Wrote: It's really a question of human psychology. Cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed.

Citation needed.

Far more cults disappear than become religions or permanent political movements, so what I wrote was a generalization I should have qualified.

The above is in fact my response to your asking for a citation, not the article I linked. In other words, I based my opinion on the shear number of cults which do not last long, not on any solid research. The qualification which was missing, and which is apparently why you thought I was making a stronger point than I intended, was that I should have said, "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed."

On top of all that, this kind of tedious and unnecessary exchange is only required because of the forum-wide tendency for people to jump all over others for minor confusions. It simply isn't worth posting here if that is the kind of behavior you and others regularly exhibit. It's unnecessary and exhausting, and exhibits bad faith in conversations.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 05:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Could everyone take a step back from the gas chambers?  It's not 70 million nazi white supremacist fascist republikkkunts.  It's 69.99 million people who are distrustful of change even though it may be in their own interest.  People who are wary of illegal immigration and any benefits illegal immigration holds for working class Americans.  People who, overall, have reasonable good experiences with  cops (i.e. comply and don't wrestle with) and want the US to have a strong ass military (though they may have not thought in the least about the trade-offs that entails).  People whose parents are immigrants from countries with less opportunity and real experience and bad histories with the glory of socialism and communism.  People who flee Democratic run cities and states for safer and more prosperous and stable pastures.  These are your fellow Americans.  Chill the fuck out with the genocide bullshit, it's an insult to people around the globe who actually suffer real govt oppression.

What's a bit creepy though is that love and obediance to authorities even when they are brutal and unfair, fear and demonization of an ''other'' (especially an other defined by ethnical characteristics), love of militarism, fear and demonization of communism and socialism are basically a bingo card for fascist. The only thing missing is jingoism and an admiration for a mythologised past and a sense that modern society is decaying. Add some machismo and a strong antifeminist and anti sexual minorities sentiment and you basically have the full recepe for someone who will love, adore and support any fascist leader.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 01:01 PM)epronovost Wrote: What's a bit creepy though is that love and obediance to authorities even when they are brutal and unfair, fear and demonization of an ''other'' (especially an other defined by ethnical characteristics), love of militarism, fear and demonization of communism and socialism are basically a bingo card for fascist.

The foundations for this have already been laid decades ago. My nephew attended high school in Atlanta for a couple of years, when my brother was there on work assignment. They had to swear an oath every morning. Now, I don't know if there are still oaths to be sworn by kids, but something like this is completely alien to most europeans and is viewed as a sign of at least overblown patriotism. Add to this the glorification of the military and you already have all the right ingredients for some wannabe dictator taking over.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 12:00 PM)Alan V Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 12:05 AM)Dānu Wrote: I responded to Alan as I did for, after having tried to pass off a fluff opinion piece as factual support for his opinion, he then tried to poison the well against any criticism by labeling my request a "homework assignment." 

That is your interpretation of what happened.  I don't agree.  I never asserted that my opinion was any more than an opinion.  You were the one who thought otherwise and said I should back it up with solid research when I had no idea whether there was any such research.  The information I posted was to offer the source of the opinion, not to claim that it was solid research.  In any case, as I also mentioned, such solid research is often lacking for such complex social interactions, and I wasn't about to do the homework to dig something up for you for a point which simply wasn't worth the effort.

You are a victim of your own inappropriate expectations.

Alan V Wrote:
(11-10-2020, 04:27 AM)Dānu Wrote: Citation needed.

Far more cults disappear than become religions or permanent political movements, so what I wrote was a generalization I should have qualified.

The above is in fact my response to your asking for a citation, not the article I linked.  In other words, I based my opinion on the shear number of cults which do not last long, not on any solid research.  The qualification which was missing, and which is apparently why you thought I was making a stronger point than I intended, was that I should have said, "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed."

On top of all that, this kind of tedious and unnecessary exchange is only required because of the forum-wide tendency for people to jump all over others for minor confusions.  It simply isn't worth posting here if that is the kind of behavior you and others regularly exhibit.  It's unnecessary and exhausting, and exhibits bad faith in conversations.

You were asked for a specific type of response and you provided a snippet of an article in the correct form, albeit defective in particulars. You may want to backtrack and say that the sentence preceding was your response to me, not the snippet, but that's just a lie. The fact that you are now trying to cast my interpretation of what you posted, which itself is just another opionion FOLLOWED by a quote from an article as a fault of mine is completely inappropriate and basically dishonest. You posted a citation in response to a request for a citation, and now you're saying that I'm a bad person for interpreting that as what you had done. This is pure bullshit and blameshifting for attempting to make your opinion seem something more than an opinion and getting called on it. Everyone knows that a call for a citation is a call for a specific type of evidence. If you didn't have such evidence or didn't feel it necessary you should have said so instead of posting something that misleadingly looks like a citation. And you're still trying to blame me for innocently interpreting your posting a citation in response to a request for a citation as me doing something wrong. And when the defects of your citation were pointed out, you doubled down and tried to paint me as being unreasonable for asking for a citation and then criticizing the one you gave. You pulled some shit from your ass, you were called on it, then you posted some shit pulled from a Times editor's ass and were called on it, and now you're just backpedaling and trying to revise history and say that you only meant to post this other bullshit which you also pulled from your ass and you and everybody else is trying to fault me for simply expecting you to play straight and not post misleading quotes or label me as assigning "homework assignments" and now accusing me of acting in bad faith. The person who has acted in bad faith here is you, Alan, and you continue to do so.

Now, as to the heart of the matter, whether you're claiming that, "It's really a question of human psychology. Cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," or that "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," -- both are just crap that you pulled from your ass and for which we have no real reason to believe that either are true. Both run counter to my intuitions on the subject as someone with a longstanding interest in the psychology of belief and having engaged in discussions concerning cults in the past. There are a lot of interesting questions involved, but since you seem to be continuing to argue in bad faith, I really have no interest in engaging you further.

(11-11-2020, 12:00 PM)Alan V Wrote: You are a victim of your own inappropriate expectations.

What the fuck is wrong with you? I asked for a citation and you posted a citation. Nowhere did you qualify that what you were posting was something else. So, again, fuck you. Now you're just being a liar.

[Image: citation.png]

I should have known better than to ask you for support for your point.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 04:14 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:36 AM)mordant Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:22 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: It just means I'll also be smart enough to leave the country and not be caught off guard like a Jew at the onset of WWII.

Yeah my wife is not liking the notion of leaving our perfect little house decorated just as she likes it but I keep reminding her of that story about (I think it was) Poland where you could get out for a couple weeks after the Nazis came in if you were willing to leave it all behind -- and that's not even what we're contemplating. A rented townhome rather than an owned private home, say, and downsizing possessions a bit ... in exchange for being as detached from US politics as we currently are from Canadian politics? In exchange for at least an adequate version of M4A rather than all the constant naysayers who insist it's utopian nonsense and it can't be done? It's starting to look like a fucking no-brainer to me.

The devil is, of course, in the details. Like the eensy detail that the Canadian border is closed right now and most of the rest of the planet also doesn't want Americans because Covid.

As for the Canadian border being closed, per se, I'd imagine that they have a place where the potentially infected can be quarantined until they have been determined not to be unclean. Anyone from Canada know?

It is also possible that if you're invited to immigrate there may be a mechanism to get you over the border and quarantined. haven't sorted that yet.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 05:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Could everyone take a step back from the gas chambers?  It's not 70 million nazi white supremacist fascist republikkkunts.  It's 69.99 million people who are distrustful of change even though it may be in their own interest. 


It didn't start out with gas chambers. It ended with it. You have to compare what's happening now with how it started back then and the similarities are very real.

Also the Nazis were unusual for fascists. Fascism took hold in other countries as well and is taking hold now. Each form of fascism is also different according to which country it takes hold in.

Yes. The threat of fascism in the UK and US is very real.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 05:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:22 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:19 AM)mordant Wrote: Sucks to be woke, doesn't it?

It just means I'll also be smart enough to leave the country and not be caught off guard like a Jew at the onset of WWII.

Could everyone take a step back from the gas chambers?  It's not 70 million nazi white supremacist fascist republikkkunts.  It's 69.99 million people who are distrustful of change even though it may be in their own interest.  People who are wary of illegal immigration and any benefits illegal immigration holds for working class Americans.  People who, overall, have reasonable good experiences with  cops (i.e. comply and don't wrestle with) and want the US to have a strong ass military (though they may have not thought in the least about the trade-offs that entails).  People whose parents are immigrants from countries with less opportunity and real experience and bad histories with the glory of socialism and communism.  People who flee Democratic run cities and states for safer and more prosperous and stable pastures.  These are your fellow Americans.  Chill the fuck out with the genocide bullshit, it's an insult to people around the globe who actually suffer real govt oppression.

My concern is only very indirectly and uncertainly about "gas chambers". It's more about this:

[Image: OpinionizationQuadrant.png]

I call it "the death of reason" or more exactly, of critical thinking. I feel that the US has crossed the Rubicon and then burned the boat so it's impossible to go back. This will eventually lead to very bad things, but I'm not interested in experiencing the slow march in that direction, either. And yes, it COULD go more quickly than one would imagine. Chaotic situations are like that.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 01:32 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 12:00 PM)Alan V Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 12:05 AM)Dānu Wrote: I responded to Alan as I did for, after having tried to pass off a fluff opinion piece as factual support for his opinion, he then tried to poison the well against any criticism by labeling my request a "homework assignment." 

That is your interpretation of what happened.  I don't agree.  I never asserted that my opinion was any more than an opinion.  You were the one who thought otherwise and said I should back it up with solid research when I had no idea whether there was any such research.  The information I posted was to offer the source of the opinion, not to claim that it was solid research.  In any case, as I also mentioned, such solid research is often lacking for such complex social interactions, and I wasn't about to do the homework to dig something up for you for a point which simply wasn't worth the effort.

You are a victim of your own inappropriate expectations.

Alan V Wrote:Far more cults disappear than become religions or permanent political movements, so what I wrote was a generalization I should have qualified.

The above is in fact my response to your asking for a citation, not the article I linked.  In other words, I based my opinion on the shear number of cults which do not last long, not on any solid research.  The qualification which was missing, and which is apparently why you thought I was making a stronger point than I intended, was that I should have said, "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed."

On top of all that, this kind of tedious and unnecessary exchange is only required because of the forum-wide tendency for people to jump all over others for minor confusions.  It simply isn't worth posting here if that is the kind of behavior you and others regularly exhibit.  It's unnecessary and exhausting, and exhibits bad faith in conversations.

You were asked for a specific type of response and you provided a snippet of an article in the correct form, albeit defective in particulars.  You may want to backtrack and say that the sentence preceding was your response to me, not the snippet, but that's just a lie.  The fact that you are now trying to cast my interpretation of what you posted, which itself is just another opionion FOLLOWED by a quote from an article as a fault of mine is completely inappropriate and basically dishonest.  You posted a citation in response to a request for a citation, and now you're saying that I'm a bad person for interpreting that as what you had done.  This is pure bullshit and blameshifting for attempting to make your opinion seem something more than an opinion and getting called on it.  Everyone knows that a call for a citation is a call for a specific type of evidence.  If you didn't have such evidence or didn't feel it necessary you should have said so instead of posting something that misleadingly looks like a citation.  And you're still trying to blame me for innocently interpreting your posting a citation in response to a request for a citation as me doing something wrong.  And when the defects of your citation were pointed out, you doubled down and tried to paint me as being unreasonable for asking for a citation and then criticizing the one you gave.  You pulled some shit from your ass, you were called on it, then you posted some shit pulled from a Times editor's ass and were called on it, and now you're just backpedaling and trying to revise history and say that you only meant to post this other bullshit which you also pulled from your ass and you and everybody else is trying to fault me for simply expecting you to play straight and not post misleading quotes or label me as assigning "homework assignments" and now accusing me of acting in bad faith.  The person who has acted in bad faith here is you, Alan, and you continue to do so.

Now, as to the heart of the matter, whether you're claiming that, "It's really a question of human psychology. Cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," or that "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," -- both are just crap that you pulled from your ass and for which we have no real reason to believe that either are true.  Both run counter to my intuitions on the subject as someone with a longstanding interest in the psychology of belief and having engaged in discussions concerning cults in the past.  There are a lot of interesting questions involved, but since you seem to be continuing to argue in bad faith, I really have no interest in engaging you further.

(11-11-2020, 12:00 PM)Alan V Wrote: You are a victim of your own inappropriate expectations.

What the fuck is wrong with you?  I asked for a citation and you posted a citation.  Nowhere did you qualify that what you were posting was something else.  So, again, fuck you.  Now you're just being a liar.

[Image: citation.png]

I should have known better than to ask you for support for your point.

Look at the fuss you are making and the damage you are potentially doing here.  Is it really worth it for such an inconsequential point?

You are like a cat who thinks she has jumped on a mouse, but who has really grabbed the tail of an increasingly impatient dog. It's not worth it.
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 03:00 PM)Alan V Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 01:32 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 12:00 PM)Alan V Wrote: That is your interpretation of what happened.  I don't agree.  I never asserted that my opinion was any more than an opinion.  You were the one who thought otherwise and said I should back it up with solid research when I had no idea whether there was any such research.  The information I posted was to offer the source of the opinion, not to claim that it was solid research.  In any case, as I also mentioned, such solid research is often lacking for such complex social interactions, and I wasn't about to do the homework to dig something up for you for a point which simply wasn't worth the effort.

You are a victim of your own inappropriate expectations.


The above is in fact my response to your asking for a citation, not the article I linked.  In other words, I based my opinion on the shear number of cults which do not last long, not on any solid research.  The qualification which was missing, and which is apparently why you thought I was making a stronger point than I intended, was that I should have said, "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed."

On top of all that, this kind of tedious and unnecessary exchange is only required because of the forum-wide tendency for people to jump all over others for minor confusions.  It simply isn't worth posting here if that is the kind of behavior you and others regularly exhibit.  It's unnecessary and exhausting, and exhibits bad faith in conversations.

You were asked for a specific type of response and you provided a snippet of an article in the correct form, albeit defective in particulars.  You may want to backtrack and say that the sentence preceding was your response to me, not the snippet, but that's just a lie.  The fact that you are now trying to cast my interpretation of what you posted, which itself is just another opionion FOLLOWED by a quote from an article as a fault of mine is completely inappropriate and basically dishonest.  You posted a citation in response to a request for a citation, and now you're saying that I'm a bad person for interpreting that as what you had done.  This is pure bullshit and blameshifting for attempting to make your opinion seem something more than an opinion and getting called on it.  Everyone knows that a call for a citation is a call for a specific type of evidence.  If you didn't have such evidence or didn't feel it necessary you should have said so instead of posting something that misleadingly looks like a citation.  And you're still trying to blame me for innocently interpreting your posting a citation in response to a request for a citation as me doing something wrong.  And when the defects of your citation were pointed out, you doubled down and tried to paint me as being unreasonable for asking for a citation and then criticizing the one you gave.  You pulled some shit from your ass, you were called on it, then you posted some shit pulled from a Times editor's ass and were called on it, and now you're just backpedaling and trying to revise history and say that you only meant to post this other bullshit which you also pulled from your ass and you and everybody else is trying to fault me for simply expecting you to play straight and not post misleading quotes or label me as assigning "homework assignments" and now accusing me of acting in bad faith.  The person who has acted in bad faith here is you, Alan, and you continue to do so.

Now, as to the heart of the matter, whether you're claiming that, "It's really a question of human psychology. Cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," or that "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," -- both are just crap that you pulled from your ass and for which we have no real reason to believe that either are true.  Both run counter to my intuitions on the subject as someone with a longstanding interest in the psychology of belief and having engaged in discussions concerning cults in the past.  There are a lot of interesting questions involved, but since you seem to be continuing to argue in bad faith, I really have no interest in engaging you further.

(11-11-2020, 12:00 PM)Alan V Wrote: You are a victim of your own inappropriate expectations.

What the fuck is wrong with you?  I asked for a citation and you posted a citation.  Nowhere did you qualify that what you were posting was something else.  So, again, fuck you.  Now you're just being a liar.

[Image: citation.png]

I should have known better than to ask you for support for your point.

Look at the fuss you are making and the damage you are potentially doing here.  Is it really worth it for such an inconsequential point?

You are like a cat who thinks she has jumped on a mouse, but who has really grabbed the tail of an increasingly impatient dog.  It's not worth it.

Who exactly are you analogizing as an increasingly impatient dog here? You? Don't make me laugh. So we've gone from bad faith and lies to threats. I can't say that I'm surprised.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 03:17 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:00 PM)Alan V Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 01:32 PM)Dānu Wrote: You were asked for a specific type of response and you provided a snippet of an article in the correct form, albeit defective in particulars.  You may want to backtrack and say that the sentence preceding was your response to me, not the snippet, but that's just a lie.  The fact that you are now trying to cast my interpretation of what you posted, which itself is just another opionion FOLLOWED by a quote from an article as a fault of mine is completely inappropriate and basically dishonest.  You posted a citation in response to a request for a citation, and now you're saying that I'm a bad person for interpreting that as what you had done.  This is pure bullshit and blameshifting for attempting to make your opinion seem something more than an opinion and getting called on it.  Everyone knows that a call for a citation is a call for a specific type of evidence.  If you didn't have such evidence or didn't feel it necessary you should have said so instead of posting something that misleadingly looks like a citation.  And you're still trying to blame me for innocently interpreting your posting a citation in response to a request for a citation as me doing something wrong.  And when the defects of your citation were pointed out, you doubled down and tried to paint me as being unreasonable for asking for a citation and then criticizing the one you gave.  You pulled some shit from your ass, you were called on it, then you posted some shit pulled from a Times editor's ass and were called on it, and now you're just backpedaling and trying to revise history and say that you only meant to post this other bullshit which you also pulled from your ass and you and everybody else is trying to fault me for simply expecting you to play straight and not post misleading quotes or label me as assigning "homework assignments" and now accusing me of acting in bad faith.  The person who has acted in bad faith here is you, Alan, and you continue to do so.

Now, as to the heart of the matter, whether you're claiming that, "It's really a question of human psychology. Cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," or that "Many cults don't last once their corruption is fully exposed," -- both are just crap that you pulled from your ass and for which we have no real reason to believe that either are true.  Both run counter to my intuitions on the subject as someone with a longstanding interest in the psychology of belief and having engaged in discussions concerning cults in the past.  There are a lot of interesting questions involved, but since you seem to be continuing to argue in bad faith, I really have no interest in engaging you further.


What the fuck is wrong with you?  I asked for a citation and you posted a citation.  Nowhere did you qualify that what you were posting was something else.  So, again, fuck you.  Now you're just being a liar.

[Image: citation.png]

I should have known better than to ask you for support for your point.

Look at the fuss you are making and the damage you are potentially doing here.  Is it really worth it for such an inconsequential point?

You are like a cat who thinks she has jumped on a mouse, but who has really grabbed the tail of an increasingly impatient dog.  It's not worth it.

Who exactly are you analogizing as an increasingly impatient dog here?  You?  Don't make me laugh.  So we've gone from bad faith and lies to threats.  I can't say that I'm surprised.

Can we put this to rest? It's tiresome.
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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The U.S. Presidential Election (topical thread)
(11-11-2020, 03:54 PM)Dom Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:17 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 03:00 PM)Alan V Wrote: Look at the fuss you are making and the damage you are potentially doing here.  Is it really worth it for such an inconsequential point?

You are like a cat who thinks she has jumped on a mouse, but who has really grabbed the tail of an increasingly impatient dog.  It's not worth it.

Who exactly are you analogizing as an increasingly impatient dog here?  You?  Don't make me laugh.  So we've gone from bad faith and lies to threats.  I can't say that I'm surprised.

Can we put this to rest? It's tiresome.

Yeah. I apologized in the Random Thoughts thread and I'll do so here. I overreacted. I misread and got triggered by his "homework" comment and went overboard. He was right and I was wrong. I'm sorry for all the hostility. I've got a temper and I knew better than to continue responding and did so anyway, and just dug my hole deeper and deeper. I'm sorry for my behavior. Alan, I'm sorry for my accusations. You were correct.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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