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Origin of Life Research
#51

Origin of Life Research
(10-17-2020, 12:04 PM)Cavebear Wrote: ... I meant what triggered The Big Bang.  We may know what happened a millionth of a millionth of a millionth (however many) of a second after, we don't know what caused it ...

My understanding is that this is the wrong conceptual approach, as it imposes a temporal dimension (namely, what preceded the BB).  Our measly 3 pounds of neurons may not be adequate to comprehend the universe's origin beyond its mere mechanics, kinda like being able to comprehend the way a phonograph record encodes sound in its groove (yes, singular groove, there's only the one) but having no conception whatsoever of any meaning in the sound produced.
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#52

Origin of Life Research
Well I'm late to this party, and no great loss, and Ardent hasn't been arsed to discuss his/her baseless assertions, so it's truly another drive-by.

But I did want to mention that the theory of evolution does not address the origin of life, so the whole "life form slithering out of a primordial soup to deceive us" thing is silly. What evolution explains is how life evolves once it exists, not how non living things became living.

The answer to that last question is, at present, like a lot of things, "we have some hypotheses, even some scientifically testable ones, but at present, we're not sure". And there's nothing wrong with that. That we don't have an explanation for x doesn't invalidate the explanations we do have for other things. That, say, religion has an "explanation" for x doesn't validate the "explanations" it has for other things.
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#53

Origin of Life Research
(10-17-2020, 11:38 AM)trdsf Wrote: We are creatures of agency, and it's why people invented gods in the first place: if we do things for a reason, then things must happen for a reason and zoom down the slippery slope you go.

I very much agree in general but the wording makes it seem as if the invention was a deliberate strategy when more likely people just saw what they expected to see at an unconscious level.  What you say doesn't specifically support that interpretation but it doesn't rule that confusion out either.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#54

Origin of Life Research
(10-18-2020, 03:15 PM)Mark Wrote:
(10-17-2020, 11:38 AM)trdsf Wrote: We are creatures of agency, and it's why people invented gods in the first place: if we do things for a reason, then things must happen for a reason and zoom down the slippery slope you go.
I very much agree in general but the wording makes it seem as if the invention was a deliberate strategy when more likely people just saw what they expected to see at an unconscious level.  What you say doesn't specifically support that interpretation but it doesn't rule that confusion out either.
I don't think gods were deliberately invented so much as just assumed: 'something more powerful than me made that river flood', 'something more powerful than me threw lightning at that tree'.  But even if the specific concept of a god per se wasn't in mind, that's the kind of thinking that leads there.

We still do the same thing, in a more sophisticated way: if you hear a thump in your house, you want to know what caused it, but your likely first guesses are going to be 'maybe the cat knocked something over' or 'was that a branch falling on the roof', not 'a spirit is trying to get my attention'.

I don't think for a second someone sat down over a sheet of papyrus and thought, "Yeah, and I'll call him Yahweh and he can do all these magical things!"  That said, I do defend the use of 'invented' because it was an act of creation—more likely the convergence of several local traditions that became homogenized over time—whether or not it was deliberate.

And it's not impossible that in some cases, it was a deliberate action, by someone who realized that if they claimed to be able to communicate with the spirits and could do a couple tricks to make it look good, that would raise their power and status within their social group.  I'm speculating of course, but I don't think I'm speculating anything unreasonable.
"Aliens?  Us?  Is this one of your Earth jokes?"  -- Kro-Bar, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
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#55

Origin of Life Research
We need some net-Ninjas on staff to hunt down the copypasta people and take a shinobigatana  to their computers.
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#56

Origin of Life Research
I used to detest drive-bys, but as the conversation above shows, they can actually provoke some good discussion ... so long as the OP stays away. Smile
On hiatus.
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#57

Origin of Life Research
(10-18-2020, 01:58 PM)mordant Wrote: Well I'm late to this party, and no great loss, and Ardent hasn't been arsed to discuss his/her baseless assertions, so it's truly another drive-by.

But I did want to mention that the theory of evolution does not address the origin of life, so the whole "life form slithering out of a primordial soup to deceive us" thing is silly. What evolution explains is how life evolves once it exists, not how non living things became living.

The answer to that last question is, at present, like a lot of things, "we have some hypotheses, even some scientifically testable ones, but at present, we're not sure". And there's nothing wrong with that. That we don't have an explanation for x doesn't invalidate the explanations we do have for other things. That, say, religion has an "explanation" for x doesn't validate the "explanations" it has for other things.


Did you know that Darwin was a creatard, Mord?  And add in that he knew nothing about genes.  It's amazing that he got as close as he did!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#58

Origin of Life Research
(10-18-2020, 10:43 PM)Astreja Wrote: We need some net-Ninjas on staff to hunt down the copypasta people and take a shinobigatana  to their computers.
That was one of the losses from the other place. A familiar copy pasta would show up, and you could search out a well reasoned reltzik or GWG refutation, and copy pasta right back atcha !
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#59

Origin of Life Research
You can smell copy-pasta anyway, even if you've never seen it before. Posters have voices, whether we know it or not.
On hiatus.
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#60

Origin of Life Research
(10-19-2020, 12:44 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You can smell copy-pasta anyway, even if you've never seen it before. Posters have voices, whether we know it or not.

Yep. It's why I'm convinced Grim is still here and posting.
[Image: Bastard-Signature.jpg]
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