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Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
#26

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
@Joods

Would you mind creating or joining a wagon before you turn in?
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#27

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 03:19 AM)Joods Wrote: I'm here. Trying to understand the rules and everything. Evidently, our results go to another player of our choosing and we can only hope that person is honest about their results.  Panic

This is very confusing to me. I say we need to just focus on some good old fashioned scum hunting because that's far less redundant.  hobo
 
Also, in the rules it is stated that every town role is an investigative role and there are no vanilla townies. Doesn't it seem sort of redundant to know who targeted who and what action they took? I mean, all the town roles are investigative. That's the action so it doesn't matter what the results are because we already know. Investigating who investigated who is just pointless because we're all just investigating each other. Unless we can come up with a plan to thwart scum, I don't see how investigating each other is in any way helpful. If we try to come up with a plan to have each one of us state in the game thread, who we are targeting, doesn't it seem sort of redundant because we're already going to know who's going to investigate who. 

I'm clearly over thinking this whole thing entirely. Anyone else have any other bright ideas?

I agree that scum hunting is our best bet until we have a better understanding of the mechanics.

That said, having a town plan for using our PRs seems important to me. If we coordinate who is doing what then we stand a better chance of getting something useful done. If we can make a plan to use our PRs on Day 1 then scum will be outted by the fact that whoever makes the NK can't perform an investigation. If Day 2 dawns and nobody has a result from mt night action then either I NKed somebody, or my result was sent to the NK victim. That only works if everybody follows the plan though.
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#28

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 03:44 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: @Joods

Would you mind creating or joining a wagon before you turn in?

Well - since Guley expects it, I guess this will be no surprise. 

Vote Guley

Not really satisfied with your wagon on someone who isn't here so I'm not going to jump on that one.
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
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#29

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 03:47 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: I agree that scum hunting is our best bet until we have a better understanding of the mechanics.

That said, having a town plan for using our PRs seems important to me. If we coordinate who is doing what then we stand a better chance of getting something useful done. If we can make a plan to use our PRs on Day 1 then scum will be outted by the fact that whoever makes the NK can't perform an investigation. If Day 2 dawns and nobody has a result from mt night action then either I NKed somebody, or my result was sent to the NK victim. That only works if everybody follows the plan though.

The problem with the PR's is that all of the actions are the same. They are investigative. They don't do anything other than investigate someone. None of the roles heal a player, block a player or kill a player, etc. Townies only kill abilities are with a lynch. The fact that scum can easily lie makes it harder. 10 players = 2 scum, as mentioned in the rules. We have 10 players. 2 scum and 8 town. There are a total of 5 townie roles, which means three of those roles will get duplicated. 

Even if we tried to coordinate who was going to target who and who was going to get sent the results, the best we're going to get is someone else's name, which we will already have acquired when everything is coordinated. 

I'm not sure what I'm saying is coming out clear enough, but I hope you can understand why I find it difficult to even bother with the PRs. I'd say, by all means, use the chat feature of the game, but that might be difficult too, considering time zones and all. I mean, seriously, how many people have yet to check in now because the game started at night for some folks? And I was supposed to try and get some sleep half an hour ago, but here I sit, up at midnight, knowing I have personal stuff to do Monday. 

I'd rather focus on scum hunting and trying to snuff out scum that way. I just don't see how the game mechanics will help us out here.
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
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#30

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Suggested Town Plan

This is the player list from the OP. Remove anybody who has been eliminated and then:

1. Paleophyte
2. Tartarus Sauce
3. LastPoet
4. Joods
5. TheGulegon
6. Losty
7. mlmooney89
8. vulcanlogician
9. no one
10. Aroura

(1) Target the person immediately above you on the list with your night action.
(2) Have the results sent to the person two steps above you.
(3) Invite the person immediately below you to night chat.

So I would target Aroura, the results would go to no one, and I'd invite Tarty to my night chat.

This should produce a predictable pattern of results and who the results are delivered to. Whoever makes the NK won't be able to do that and will be revealed as scum. Please note that this only works if everybody follows the plan.

Thoughts?
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#31

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 04:03 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Thoughts?

No. You are showing scum our hand. Let us all agree that we WILL use our night abilities on someone if we are town. We should aim our abilities at the person we think will perform the NK. If our result comes back null, we have reason to believe that our target performed the NK. Chances are, we won't hit that person. But if we do... BUSTED!
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#32

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 04:03 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Suggested Town Plan

This is the player list from the OP. Remove anybody who has been eliminated and then:

1. Paleophyte
2. Tartarus Sauce
3. LastPoet
4. Joods
5. TheGulegon
6. Losty
7. mlmooney89
8. vulcanlogician
9. no one
10. Aroura

(1) Target the person immediately above you on the list with your night action.
(2) Have the results sent to the person two steps above you.
(3) Invite the person immediately below you to night chat.

So I would target Aroura, the results would go to no one, and I'd invite Tarty to my night chat.

This should produce a predictable pattern of results and who the results are delivered to. Whoever makes the NK won't be able to do that and will be revealed as scum. Please note that this only works if everybody follows the plan.

Thoughts?

The only problem I see is we must let Mathilda know who we plan on inviting to our chat, during the day phase, if we haven't sent her a PM of who we want to chat with, by the time the day phase is over, we don't get to night chat. If the person one of us invites, gets lynched, then that means one of us won't have access to a night chat and that's not fair. 

If you can find a work around to that, I'm open to hearing it.
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
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#33

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 04:08 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-17-2019, 04:03 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Thoughts?

No. You are showing scum our hand. Let us all agree that we WILL use our night abilities on someone if we are town. We should aim our abilities at the person we think will perform the NK. If our result comes back null, we have reason to believe that our target performed the NK. Chances are, we won't hit that person. But if we do... BUSTED!

And what if more than one person targets the same person or what if scum isn't targeted at all? We'd have to trust that people are being honest with their results.
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
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#34

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 03:59 AM)Joods Wrote: The problem with the PR's is that all of the actions are the same. They are investigative. They don't do anything other than investigate someone.

Not quite true. There are different investigative roles that target people in different ways. That isn't all that important though. What matters is the information flow. Our investigative roles produces data that is sent to somebody else. If there's a regular and predictable pattern of how that data is produced and reported then you can track that. Whoever makes the NK will show up as a silence. If Day 2 dawns and nobody has a report for Joods' night action then we know that either:

(1) You're town but didn't take a night action for some reason. You have some explaining to do.
(2) You're dead. Sorry to hear that you caught a bad case of nightkill but at least you have a good and obvious reason for missing role call.
(3) The person your result was sent to was NKed. They similarly have a good and obvious reason for not reporting.
(4) The person your result was sent to is lying scum. They'll have a fun time explaining their lack of result.
(5) You're scum and NKed some poor bugger. You horrible, horrible person.
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#35

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
This is a lot to digest. I don't do confusion well and I'd like others to give their input on this too.
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
Reply
#36

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 04:08 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-17-2019, 04:03 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Thoughts?

No. You are showing scum our hand. Let us all agree that we WILL use our night abilities on someone if we are town. We should aim our abilities at the person we think will perform the NK. If our result comes back null, we have reason to believe that our target performed the NK. Chances are, we won't hit that person. But if we do... BUSTED!

Showing scum our hand only matters if there's something that they can do about it. I can see a few options for scum in this case but they're pretty limited and all rely on producing yet more faulty data. We can track that and lynch them. Without a consistent pattern of target and report anybody can claim that "I sent my results to Paleo but he got NKed. So sad that."

IMO it's more important for town to know the plan so that it can be properly executed than it is to conceal it from scum that have limited options to counter it.
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#37

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 04:12 AM)Joods Wrote: And what if more than one person targets the same person or what if scum isn't targeted at all? We'd have to trust that people are being honest with their results.

If someone is being dishonest with their results, we lynch them.
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#38

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Vote count 1.1:

#4 vulcanlogcian votes Mooney
#21 Paleophyte votes vulcanlogian
#28 Joods votes Guley


Mooney (1): vulcanlogician
vulcanlogician (1): Paleophyte
Guley (1): Joods
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#39

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Fuck I am so sorry, I got distracted with Tropico 5. I'm just not used to playing mafia anymore. Let me try now.
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#40

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Ok it being early on and not everyone checking in it's easy to say I like the interaction from Paleo and Vulcan. Both are making points I could follow. I get why Vulcan says no but we do need SOME kind of plan. I will need to be on a computer to feel one out though. Sorry again but I've got to get ready and go to work.
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#41

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Alright I am at work now. So I don't know how I lean on Vulcan and Paleo right now but I will be willing to say I don't want them going down today since they are trying so much. I'd say Paleo was being anti town by discussing a mass claim already but I think we all realize that is his shtick and NAI.

I think we do need a plan in certain parts but maybe not for all. I think saying who we will speak to at night would be good to discuss. It seems to be first come first serve and I think night talking will be helpful since that is the time I discovered who was on my team in the DC/Marvel game. It produces more info, at least for me it does. I don't think we should say who we target or who gets the answer because I think we can catch lies in it.
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#42

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Reads: 

1. Paleophyte       - Good contributions so far. I like the dialogue between him and Vulcan. 
2. Tartarus Sauce - Hasn't checked in yet. 
3. LastPoet          - Hasn't checked in yet. 
4. Joods              - Me obviously. 
5. TheGulegon     - Made a few posts but nothing noteworthy. 
6. Losty               - Hasn't checked in yet. 
7. mlmooney89    - Null - nothing really but hopefully she'll read at work. 
8. vulcanlogician   - Nice contributions. Seems willing to try and agree to some sort of a plan. 
9. no one             - Hasn't checked in yet. 
10. Aroura           - Hasn't checked in yet. 


I got little sleep because apparently I now have the flu. It's hard getting reads on anyone other than Paleo and Vulcan. They are the only two who have really been engaging. And I'm not sure if we need to be focusing on the game mechanics more than we need to be focusing on scum hunting. Honestly, if we don't get everyone else to check in here, any plan we do come up with is going to fail because the day will have ended with not everyone checking in. 

@Tartarus Sauce @LastPoet @Losty @no one @Aroura

We need you all to get in here and post something please.
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
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#43

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Bah! Ninjad by Mooney.

I can get on board with saying who we would night chat with. This would eliminate the possibility of the same person getting picked twice. Remember, you can't change your mind with who you pick so yeah - this would be a great way to gain information too.
      Christianity: 
God meddles in the affairs of humans in a small part the Earth for 1500 years, giving one tribal society rules to live by.
He stops all direct contact for the next 2,000 years, leaving us with a metaphorical set of instructions.
Reply
#44

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 03:48 AM)Joods Wrote:
(06-17-2019, 03:44 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: @Joods

Would you mind creating or joining a wagon before you turn in?

Well - since Guley expects it, I guess this will be no surprise. 

Vote Guley

Not really satisfied with your wagon on someone who isn't here so I'm not going to jump on that one.

That'a girl!

If I make it, me & you gon chat! Winking
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#45

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 04:03 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Suggested Town Plan

This is the player list from the OP. Remove anybody who has been eliminated and then:

1. Paleophyte
2. Tartarus Sauce
3. LastPoet
4. Joods
5. TheGulegon
6. Losty
7. mlmooney89
8. vulcanlogician
9. no one
10. Aroura

(1) Target the person immediately above you on the list with your night action.
(2) Have the results sent to the person two steps above you.
(3) Invite the person immediately below you to night chat.

So I would target Aroura, the results would go to no one, and I'd invite Tarty to my night chat.

This should produce a predictable pattern of results and who the results are delivered to. Whoever makes the NK won't be able to do that and will be revealed as scum. Please note that this only works if everybody follows the plan.

Thoughts?

No one likes a good plan like me, but idk if we'd convince everybody to follow along. I'd almost say wait till everyone has checked in at least once before we follow a night action plan, but everyone inviting the person below them is something I can get on board with, from night 1 to the end. I want every one of us engaging one another in these chats.

If I see a bunch of people saying "yeah sure", obviously, I'll follow the listed instructions agreed upon, without having to be here to witness the end of day phase.
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#46

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-16-2019, 10:09 PM)vulcanlogician Wrote: Also... just in case ppl don't know the game started:

@Tartarus Sauce

@mlmooney89

@LastPoet

@Joods

@TheGulegon

@Losty

@Aroura

I appreciate that lol. I tried to look to see when the game was starting but couldn’t find anything.
Thanks to Free Thought for my lovely avatar!
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#47

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-16-2019, 09:01 PM)Paleophyte Wrote: What is everybody's feeling on a massclaim?

My feeling is: no
Thanks to Free Thought for my lovely avatar!
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#48

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
(06-17-2019, 04:03 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Suggested Town Plan

This is the player list from the OP. Remove anybody who has been eliminated and then:

1. Paleophyte
2. Tartarus Sauce
3. LastPoet
4. Joods
5. TheGulegon
6. Losty
7. mlmooney89
8. vulcanlogician
9. no one
10. Aroura

(1) Target the person immediately above you on the list with your night action.
(2) Have the results sent to the person two steps above you.
(3) Invite the person immediately below you to night chat.

So I would target Aroura, the results would go to no one, and I'd invite Tarty to my night chat.

This should produce a predictable pattern of results and who the results are delivered to. Whoever makes the NK won't be able to do that and will be revealed as scum. Please note that this only works if everybody follows the plan.

Thoughts?

Don’t really like the plan

Also, plans that require everyone to follow along never work
Thanks to Free Thought for my lovely avatar!
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#49

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
Sup bitches
[Image: giphy.gif]
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#50

Mafia game #10: The Surveillance State
So if one of us targets the person that committed the night kill, that means we get a null result? So we would be 100% certain they performed the night kill then? Doesn’t seem very ninja-like to me.
[Image: giphy.gif]
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