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So... I Prayed Recently
#51

So... I Prayed Recently
I must admit that this thread and those liking it makes me feel very uncomfortable ...

But to those Christians clapping there hands over this thread, some of us don't choose to not believe in a deity ... we just don't.
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#52

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 04:27 AM)madog Wrote: I must admit that this thread and those liking it makes me feel very uncomfortable ...

Why?
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#53

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 05:13 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 04:27 AM)madog Wrote: I must admit that this thread and those liking it makes me feel very uncomfortable ...

Why?

Don't get me wrong, everyones beliefs are personal (until raised on a forum)

Belief in the supernatural is often just emotional ...

Many believers in any woo understand the evidence for their particular woo is ridiculous, but they still believe regardless of critical thinking and lack of evidence ...

I struggle with differentiating between an emotional believer that worships/prays regularly than those that only pray/worship when in a crisis ....
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#54

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 05:21 AM)madog Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 05:13 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 04:27 AM)madog Wrote: I must admit that this thread and those liking it makes me feel very uncomfortable ...

Why?

Don't get me wrong, everyones beliefs are personal (until raised on a forum)

Belief in the supernatural is often just emotional ...

Many believers in any woo understand the evidence for their particular woo is ridiculous, but they still believe regardless of critical thinking and lack of evidence ...

I struggle with differentiating between an emotional believer that worships/prays regularly than those that only pray/worship when in a crisis ....

But this thread doesn't really concern whether the supernatural exists or not. It's about what motivates people to believe certain things or engage in religious behavior. This is a relevant topic because (atheist, theist, or woo enthusiast) we all live in a world where large numbers of people have religious beliefs for some reason.
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#55

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 05:34 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 05:21 AM)madog Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 05:13 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: Why?

Don't get me wrong, everyones beliefs are personal (until raised on a forum)

Belief in the supernatural is often just emotional ...

Many believers in any woo understand the evidence for their particular woo is ridiculous, but they still believe regardless of critical thinking and lack of evidence ...

I struggle with differentiating between an emotional believer that worships/prays regularly than those that only pray/worship when in a crisis ....

But this thread doesn't really concern whether the supernatural exists or not. It's about what motivates people to believe certain things or engage in religious behavior. This is a relevant topic because (atheist, theist, or woo enthusiast) we all live in a world where large numbers of people have religious beliefs for some reason.

I never said it wasn't a relevant topic, I just have concerns at the way you portray yourself ... I really didn't want to get involved because of your situation, however as a minority group, it does effect us.

Many Christians when debating ... claim that atheists deep down believe in a God ... in fact many claimed that christopher hitchens would have a death bed conversion ....

To me death bed and crisis prayer/worship is merely weak theism.
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#56

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 05:49 AM)madog Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 05:34 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 05:21 AM)madog Wrote: Don't get me wrong, everyones beliefs are personal (until raised on a forum)

Belief in the supernatural is often just emotional ...

Many believers in any woo understand the evidence for their particular woo is ridiculous, but they still believe regardless of critical thinking and lack of evidence ...

I struggle with differentiating between an emotional believer that worships/prays regularly than those that only pray/worship when in a crisis ....

But this thread doesn't really concern whether the supernatural exists or not. It's about what motivates people to believe certain things or engage in religious behavior. This is a relevant topic because (atheist, theist, or woo enthusiast) we all live in a world where large numbers of people have religious beliefs for some reason.

I never said it wasn't a relevant topic, I just have concerns at the way you portray yourself ... I really didn't want to get involved because of your situation, however as a minority group, it does effect us.

Many Christians when debating ... claim that atheists deep down believe in a God ... in fact many claimed that christopher hitchens would have a death bed conversion ....

To me death bed and crisis prayer/worship is merely weak theism.

So, as I hear it, you think this thread is some kind of admission that "I deep down believe in God" and that this makes you and other atheists "look bad." Is that it?

I am pretty sure that you have several misunderstandings about me, the first being that I give any kind of fuck about how I make atheists look to theists. Another misunderstanding you might have about me is that I think I am doing atheists or anyone else a favor by making them comfortable with their beliefs. You need to be open to challenging your beliefs, no matter how reasonable or iron clad they are. In fact, that's all my reflection on my experience was, an opportunity for me to reflect on my own beliefs and challenge my/your current thinking. But let's say I did make an OP saying clearly that I deep down believe in God (which I didn't)... that shouldn't ruffle your feathers, man!

There is a reason I became an atheist, but it isn't because the forum communiques are so fun (which they are). The reason is because the atheistic worldview survives rational scrutiny better than most (if not all) other worldviews. As such, it ought to be our beloved pastime to subject our own sturdy worldview to rational scrutiny. Trust me. It can withstand it. We shouldn't be shaking our heads and saying "Oh shit! What will the theists think now?" --even if one of us goes "full creationist." As far as I can tell, the atheistic worldview can withstand whatever logical argument is thrown at it. The day that it can't withstand reasonable argument is the day I will cease to be an atheist. Isn't that your policy too?
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#57

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 06:17 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:  

So, as I hear it, you think this thread is some kind of admission that "I deep down believe in God" and that this makes you and other atheists "look bad." Is that it?

 

Titles mean little ... you either believe in a God or you don't ... I can't know what someone else thinks, but as a general rule of thumb I consider when someone Prays/worships a deity they have belief.

I know many people that consider themselves Christian, that don't go to church, read the bible and only pray/worship when they have a crisis  ...

You can get angry that I question that you have God beliefs ... being allowed to raise a reasonable arguement goes both ways ....
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#58

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 06:35 AM)madog Wrote: Titles mean little ... you either believe in a God or you don't ... I can't know what someone else thinks, but as a general rule of thumb I consider when someone Prays/worships a deity they have belief.

I know many people that consider themselves Christian, that don't go to church, read the bible and only pray/worship when they have a crisis  ...

You can get angry that I question that you have God beliefs ... being allowed to raise a reasonable arguement goes both ways ....

But I haven't gotten angry. I'm puzzled. Didn't you say you are uncomfortable with something? What are you uncomfortable with?
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#59

So... I Prayed Recently
Prayer, as useful as a third nipple.
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#60

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:02 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: But I haven't gotten angry. I'm puzzled. Didn't you say you are uncomfortable with something? What are you uncomfortable with?

It felt you were, which doesn't mean you were  Winking

Quote:But let's say I did make an OP saying clearly that I deep down believe in God (which I didn't)... that shouldn't ruffle your feathers, man! 

Had you admitted deep down you believed in God wouldn't have made me uncomfortable, the way you hid the fact did .... but that aside ...

So what is the difference between a Christian and an Atheist that only pray/worship when they have a crisis?

I believe your true inner beliefs come out in a crisis ....
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#61

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:12 AM)madog Wrote: Had you admitted deep down you believed in God wouldn't have made me uncomfortable, the way you hid the fact did .... but that aside ...

Wait a minute. Do you think I purposefully hid some subversive theistic belief in my OP? If so, just come out and say it.

Or do you think I unconsciously hid some theistic beliefs in the OP? If that's the case, then I'd better say up front, I don't put much credence in psychoanalytic theories, Mr Freud.

Which is it?
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#62

So... I Prayed Recently
Does freethinking bother you?
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#63

So... I Prayed Recently
Don't become so lost in free thought that your mind cannot discern fantasy from reality.
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#64

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:28 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Don't become so lost in free thought that your mind cannot discern fantasy from reality.

Oh please, then, thou who hast figured out the best way to think, please instruct me how not to become lost in free thought. Please instruct me in your wise ways.
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#65

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:32 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 07:28 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Don't become so lost in free thought that your mind cannot discern fantasy from reality.

Oh please, then, thou who hast figured out the best way to think, please instruct me how not to become lost in free thought. Please instruct me in your wise ways.

All I'm stating is that an open mind can be as dangerous as a closed one, for you may forget yourself in thought and become open to anything.
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#66

So... I Prayed Recently
Wrong. The best thing to do is be receptive to every idea but subject each idea to critical examination.
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#67

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:24 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(06-08-2019, 07:12 AM)madog Wrote: Had you admitted deep down you believed in God wouldn't have made me uncomfortable, the way you hid the fact did .... but that aside ...

Wait a minute. Do you think I purposefully hid some subversive theistic belief in my OP? 

I asked a question above which you ignored  ... but from your high horse consider your own statement ...

Quote:About a month ago, I actually prayed to God.

I Think you are educated enough to understand a belief in the Deity would be required?
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#68

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:36 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: Wrong. The best thing to do is be receptive to every idea but subject each idea to critical examination.

I was momentarily receptive to your above opinion, and then critical examination informed me that you are at least entitled to your opinion.
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#69

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:37 AM)madog Wrote: I Think you are educated enough to understand a belief in the Deity would be required?

No. It isn't. A person could be raised to habitually pray and come to accept (by his own rational conclusions) that God does not exist, yet the habit of religious practice is still not broken.

That is not my case but it is one possible case that disproves your assertion in principle.

My case is that I experienced so much desperation that my emotional state circumvented my rational faculties. As a result, I prayed despite my beliefs. My thesis was this: predicament influences one to engage in religious behavior. For us to make the case that atheism is logically sound is insufficient if we want to counteract religions influence.
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#70

So... I Prayed Recently
In more plain terms: I am a free thinker first and an atheist second.

Or otherwise stated: I'm an atheist because I'm a freethinker... not a freethinker because I'm an atheist.
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#71

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:48 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: In more plain terms: I am a free thinker first and an atheist second.
 

What ever you are I can ask you how you can show you "prayed to God"

Quote:About a month ago, I actually prayed to God.
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#72

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:12 AM)madog Wrote:  

So what is the difference between a Christian and an Atheist that only pray/worship when they have a crisis?
 

I'll ask again in case you missed it ...
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#73

So... I Prayed Recently
You guys are the ones with the epistemological nickel lodged in your ass cheeks, not me. Try chilling out and having a bowl.
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#74

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:58 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: You guys are the ones with the epistemological nickel lodged in your ass cheeks, not me. Try chilling out and having a bowl.

They bounce off my ass cheeks. Winking They don't get stuck.
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#75

So... I Prayed Recently
(06-08-2019, 07:58 AM)vulcanlogician Wrote: You guys are the ones with the epistemological nickel lodged in your ass cheeks, not me. Try chilling out and having a bowl.

You never answer questions  .... I have never attacked your beliefs, just the fact you are smuggling them in  Dodgy
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