Mafia Updates

[Aliza]

As of right now, game moderator has the ability to add and remove players from the game. Because the Mafia Game group looks exactly like the standard registered user group, I realized that the GM has no way of knowing if his or her commands to add and remove players from the group have taken effect. 

To fix this, I'll be adding a small word "mafia" to the profiles of registered users (and maybe staff, but our accounts may need more tweaking before we can make it work for us). I'd like for an even less obtrusive indicator of who is playing the game, but for at least this game, this is what I've got. 

These tags on the profile do not indicate game alignment in any way. They indicate players vs. non-players. All players in the game are the same; it's the password that gives you access to scum chat, not your user grouping.

[Joods]

Fun! Thanks for all the hard work you're doing!

[Aliza]

Fun! Thanks for all the hard work you're doing!

I like the mental challenge. I like figuring things out and getting them to work the way I want.

[Aliza]

So does anyone want to volunteer to write up some easy to read, not too detailed, very broad terms, setup structure, or other relevant information to use as a baseline for AD games?

I did not know what my role was, I didn't understand whether role claiming was permitted, I didn't know that scum know who each other is from the onset of the first PM. I don't know how the power roles work, and I'm sure there's a lot more out there that I have no idea about. 

Even if we're just starting out with a list of links and an explanation of why they're useful would be good.


Any takers? Volunteers?

[EvieTheAvocado]

I'll get to it at some point if someone else doesn't beat me to it

Not today though. Spending the night with an amazing friend.

[Assassin]

Regarding roles, I suggest that moderators hosting games are to link to or explain all roles that they intend to include in the game, in the games intro or sign up thread.

There are plenty of roles and roles can even be made up for the specific game being played. 

Wouldn't be viable to try and write up what "all" roles do/how they function.

[Aliza]

Regarding roles, I suggest that moderators hosting games are to link to or explain all roles that they intend to include in the game, in the games intro or sign up thread.

There are plenty of roles and roles can even be made up for the specific game being played. 

Wouldn't be viable to try and write up what "all" roles do/how they function.

No, but there are some common ones. The common ones should be explained, and game mods should explain roles that they're adding per game if they're not on our list.

[Assassin]

Regarding roles, I suggest that moderators hosting games are to link to or explain all roles that they intend to include in the game, in the games intro or sign up thread.

There are plenty of roles and roles can even be made up for the specific game being played. 

Wouldn't be viable to try and write up what "all" roles do/how they function.

No, but there are some common ones. The common ones should be explained, and game mods should explain roles that they're adding per game if they're not on our list.

True, I think Evie's game had a good base for the common roles. Maybe add a few more that you like.

[Joods]

The problem with game mods listing all the roles in any given game is that for some games, this ruins the fun of the roles. Not everyone is supposed to know all of the roles in a game. So, typically, what happens in those cases, in the rules, it will state something along the lines of "this is a role madness game". When they do this, they may or may not include part of the rules being that you cannot role claim. In addition, with bastard games, your role pm may not include all that your abilities entail. The GM might intentionally leave parts of things out.

Keep in mind, it is part of the game play to figure out some of these things. To request that all game mods have to start including certain things in their rule post, takes some of the element of figuring out the game, away, making it a moot point to play the game. If anyone is really interested in a list of typical and non-typical roles, you can go here for some heavy reading.

[Aliza]

The problem with game mods listing all the roles in any given game is that for some games, this ruins the fun of the roles. Not everyone is supposed to know all of the roles in a game. So, typically, what happens in those cases, in the rules, it will state something along the lines of "this is a role madness game". When they do this, they may or may not include part of the rules being that you cannot role claim. In addition, with bastard games, your role pm may not include all that your abilities entail. The GM might intentionally leave parts of things out.

Keep in mind, it is part of the game play to figure out some of these things. To request that all game mods have to start including certain things in their rule post, takes some of the element of figuring out the game, away, making it a moot point to play the game. If anyone is really interested in a list of typical and non-typical roles, you can go here for some heavy reading.

I would feel absolutely cheated if a game mod stated that it was a standard game (however we decide 'standard' is to be defined) and then switched the rules mid-game. If shifts are possible in the game, that should be stipulated at the beginning. I have to be able to trust the moderator.

[Joods]

The problem with game mods listing all the roles in any given game is that for some games, this ruins the fun of the roles. Not everyone is supposed to know all of the roles in a game. So, typically, what happens in those cases, in the rules, it will state something along the lines of "this is a role madness game". When they do this, they may or may not include part of the rules being that you cannot role claim. In addition, with bastard games, your role pm may not include all that your abilities entail. The GM might intentionally leave parts of things out.

Keep in mind, it is part of the game play to figure out some of these things. To request that all game mods have to start including certain things in their rule post, takes some of the element of figuring out the game, away, making it a moot point to play the game. If anyone is really interested in a list of typical and non-typical roles, you can go here for some heavy reading.

I would feel absolutely cheated if a game mod stated that it was a standard game (however we decide 'standard' is to be defined) and then switched the rules mid-game. If shifts are possible in the game, that should be stipulated at the beginning. I have to be able to trust the moderator.

In a bastard game, the game mod normally indicates in the rules, that it's a bastard game and that your entire role will be revealed upon your flip (or the end of the game if you survive). That's just general courtesy to the people playing the game. However, understand that with that knowledge, you go into the game knowing that you won't know absolutely everything about your role while you are playing.

[Aliza]

The problem with game mods listing all the roles in any given game is that for some games, this ruins the fun of the roles. Not everyone is supposed to know all of the roles in a game. So, typically, what happens in those cases, in the rules, it will state something along the lines of "this is a role madness game". When they do this, they may or may not include part of the rules being that you cannot role claim. In addition, with bastard games, your role pm may not include all that your abilities entail. The GM might intentionally leave parts of things out.

Keep in mind, it is part of the game play to figure out some of these things. To request that all game mods have to start including certain things in their rule post, takes some of the element of figuring out the game, away, making it a moot point to play the game. If anyone is really interested in a list of typical and non-typical roles, you can go here for some heavy reading.

I would feel absolutely cheated if a game mod stated that it was a standard game (however we decide 'standard' is to be defined) and then switched the rules mid-game. If shifts are possible in the game, that should be stipulated at the beginning. I have to be able to trust the moderator.

In a bastard game, the game mod normally indicates in the rules, that it's a bastard game and that your entire role will be revealed upon your flip (or the end of the game if you survive). That's just general courtesy to the people playing the game. However, understand that with that knowledge, you go into the game knowing that you won't know absolutely everything about your role.

Why would you not know everything about your role?

See, this is why we need easily accessible terms that we can rely on. The player not knowing their own role seems weird. 

If you told me that I'm a vanilla townie, and that it was a "bastard" game, and then half-way through the game you switched my role on me, I'd be confused to say the least.

[Assassin]

I avoid bastard mechanics at all costs. Also, I can't see the point of a role if it cannot be used or claimed or claimed to be used.

But I guess different people have different preferences on what they would want in a game of mafia.

[Aliza]

I would feel absolutely cheated if a game mod stated that it was a standard game (however we decide 'standard' is to be defined) and then switched the rules mid-game. If shifts are possible in the game, that should be stipulated at the beginning. I have to be able to trust the moderator.

In a bastard game, the game mod normally indicates in the rules, that it's a bastard game and that your entire role will be revealed upon your flip (or the end of the game if you survive). That's just general courtesy to the people playing the game. However, understand that with that knowledge, you go into the game knowing that you won't know absolutely everything about your role.

Why would you not know everything about your role?

See, this is why we need easily accessible terms that we can rely on. The player not knowing their own role seems weird. 

If you told me that I'm a vanilla townie, and that it was a "bastard" game, and then half-way through the game you switched my role on me, I'd be confused to say the least.

Yeah, I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around this. That's like going in to take a test in history and being presented with questions from next semester's math class. Once you've gone beyond the zone of proximal development, the task is no longer challenging and instructive. Considering that it's a game, it wouldn't be fun any more either... at least not for me.

[Joods]

I would feel absolutely cheated if a game mod stated that it was a standard game (however we decide 'standard' is to be defined) and then switched the rules mid-game. If shifts are possible in the game, that should be stipulated at the beginning. I have to be able to trust the moderator.

In a bastard game, the game mod normally indicates in the rules, that it's a bastard game and that your entire role will be revealed upon your flip (or the end of the game if you survive). That's just general courtesy to the people playing the game. However, understand that with that knowledge, you go into the game knowing that you won't know absolutely everything about your role.

Why would you not know everything about your role?

See, this is why we need easily accessible terms that we can rely on. The player not knowing their own role seems weird. 

If you told me that I'm a vanilla townie, and that it was a "bastard" game, and then half-way through the game you switched my role on me, I'd be confused to say the least.

No, it's not like that..... in a bastard game, you might get a role of a cop, however what you might not know is that you role calls for your cop to have amnesia. So you might end up getting false results, or investigating another player entirely, but you won't necessarily know that you have amnesia. 

It's all part of the fun of a bastard game.

[Joods]

@Aroura maybe you could chime in here on the fun and mechanics of bastard games and role madness games?

[Escape Artist]

Aliza, maybe this would help? https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Main_Page I think this was the site that Rev linked me to way back when I was first playing Mafia. I'm looking it over again now. Watching the chocolate mafia game made me want to play again!

[Mathilda]

Yeah I was wanting to post this page but was already dead when I realised that it wasn't available.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit...:All_Roles

[Aliza]

Yeah I was wanting to post this page but was already dead when I realised that it wasn't available.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit...:All_Roles

We'll have some improvements for the future games.

[EvieTheAvocado]

The problem with game mods listing all the roles in any given game is that for some games, this ruins the fun of the roles. Not everyone is supposed to know all of the roles in a game. So, typically, what happens in those cases, in the rules, it will state something along the lines of "this is a role madness game". When they do this, they may or may not include part of the rules being that you cannot role claim. In addition, with bastard games, your role pm may not include all that your abilities entail. The GM might intentionally leave parts of things out.

Keep in mind, it is part of the game play to figure out some of these things. To request that all game mods have to start including certain things in their rule post, takes some of the element of figuring out the game, away, making it a moot point to play the game. If anyone is really interested in a list of typical and non-typical roles, you can go here for some heavy reading.

I would feel absolutely cheated if a game mod stated that it was a standard game (however we decide 'standard' is to be defined) and then switched the rules mid-game. If shifts are possible in the game, that should be stipulated at the beginning. I have to be able to trust the moderator.

Yes. This is why I was so stubborn about not revealing more about the roles later on in the game.

In hindsight I should have provided the definition of the roles that I used right from the beginning.

My next game will be the exact same setup—a different theme purely for flavor—except for the following changes:

• I will give definitions for all the possible roles in the OP.
  
• I will say how many power roles there are in the game per side (I'll only do this when I know how many players are in the game).
  
• I will say how many scum there are in the game (again, I'll only do this when I know how many players are in the game).
  
• We probably wouldn't—but if we ended up with a great many players like 12-14 then I will mention if there's more than 1 scum team. But as it's a standard game and not role madness or bastard there would only be two scum teams in a very large game.
  

Personally, I only like the first change but there's nothing wrong with making the setup more open like that. Although it probably does make things a little easier for Town and a little more difficult for Scum. Still, the game would still be very balanced.

I still want my game to be semi-open which is why there will be many possible roles but only a few rolled. But it will be a little more open in future.

Basically:

I think it's more fun with more mystery for experienced players but less newbie friendly and therefore a lot less fun for the newbs. And I want my next game to be more newbie friendly.

I might work on it sometime soon and add my next game to the end of the Mafia list. I really really enjoyed hosting that game and it was a lot easier than I expected! Despite the problems! I was really quite terrified and worried about messing up but if I wasn't ready then then I never would have been ... so glad I went for it and that it all worked out. And, despite being terrified, I was a lot more confident about it than in the past.

@Aliza Did you talk to Mathilda about the issues we had with scum chat for moderators?

[Aliza]

The problem with game mods listing all the roles in any given game is that for some games, this ruins the fun of the roles. Not everyone is supposed to know all of the roles in a game. So, typically, what happens in those cases, in the rules, it will state something along the lines of "this is a role madness game". When they do this, they may or may not include part of the rules being that you cannot role claim. In addition, with bastard games, your role pm may not include all that your abilities entail. The GM might intentionally leave parts of things out.

Keep in mind, it is part of the game play to figure out some of these things. To request that all game mods have to start including certain things in their rule post, takes some of the element of figuring out the game, away, making it a moot point to play the game. If anyone is really interested in a list of typical and non-typical roles, you can go here for some heavy reading.

I would feel absolutely cheated if a game mod stated that it was a standard game (however we decide 'standard' is to be defined) and then switched the rules mid-game. If shifts are possible in the game, that should be stipulated at the beginning. I have to be able to trust the moderator.

Yes. This is why I was so stubborn about not revealing more about the roles later on in the game.

In hindsight I should have provided the definition of the roles that I used right from the beginning.

My next game will be the exact same setup—a different theme purely for flavor—except for the following changes:

• I will give definitions for all the possible roles in the OP.
  
• I will say how many power roles there are in the game per side (I'll only do this when I know how many players are in the game).
  
• I will say how many scum there are in the game (again, I'll only do this when I know how many players are in the game).
  
• We probably wouldn't—but if we ended up with a great many players like 12-14 then I will mention if there's more than 1 scum team. But as it's a standard game and not role madness or bastard there would only be two scum teams in a very large game.
  

Personally, I only like the first change but there's nothing wrong with making the setup more open like that. Although it probably does make things a little easier for Town and a little more difficult for Scum. Still, the game would still be very balanced.

I still want my game to be semi-open which is why there will be many possible roles but only a few rolled. But it will be a little more open in future.

Basically:

I think it's more fun with more mystery for experienced players but less newbie friendly and therefore a lot less fun for the newbs. And I want my next game to be more newbie friendly.

I might work on it sometime soon and add my next game to the end of the Mafia list. I really really enjoyed hosting that game and it was a lot easier than I expected! Despite the problems! I was really quite terrified and worried about messing up but if I wasn't ready then then I never would have been ... so glad I went for it and that it all worked out. And, despite being terrified, I was a lot more confident about it than in the past.

@Aliza Did you talk to Mathilda about the issues we had with scum chat for moderators?

I fixed scum chat for moderators. We're working on policies for scum chat that will at least be in effect for the next game.

And I forgot to thank you for hosting the game. You did a really good job! And I really enjoyed myself.  You were on the ball with picking up the shifting around of players in and out of the mafia groups. Well done! 

[EvieTheAvocado]

Thank you so much Aliza! When it came to running a Mafia game ... I was a newbie too!

[mlmooney89]

I feel horrible for stealing their premade stuff... this is how AF.org shows new players the rules.

Show ContentSpoiler:

• Do Not use the report button in this section. Do not contact AF forum staff for assistance with anything in this section. Any issues here may be reported via PM to Losty. To report game rule violations PM the person who is moderating the game. This subforum is a special thing, please don't ruin it for everyone by annoying AF forum staff with reports about mafia. If you break this rule you are subject to being removed from the Mafia section and you may no longer be allowed to participate in mafia games.

•Reverse Vegas- what happens outside of Mafia stays outside of Mafia More Details Here
• Please follow the rules of the game you are playing. Each game will have it's own rules which will be posted by the game moderator. If game rule violations becomes a repeated issue you may be banned from playing mafia altogether. (Remember in each game the game moderator has the final say. Once a game moderator makes any decisions regarding their game, please accept it and move on)
Do not make personal attacks on any players or game mods. If you have a problem with something PM the mod and/or myself.
This section is supposed to be fun, please don't ruin our cool cats vibe or you will be removed from the group.

•Do not discuss possible rule violations in a game thread. If you think a player has violated a rule, PM the game mod.

• Never ever influence a game after you're dead unless you have explicit permission from that game's moderator. Most game mods don't mind seeing a undefined or a ghost gif from dead players, beyond that you should observe but not comment on the game. This includes people who are able to comment but not participating in the game.

•The game mod is God! You must follow the specific rules set in place for each game regardless of whether or not you agree.

•Each game mod will be allowed to choose for themselves whether or not they wish to allow kudos during their game and who will be allowed to give those kudos.
If kudos are allowed in a game, you are expected to use your kudos option honestly. No player may use kudos as a form of secret communication and no non player may use kudos to try to influence the game in any way. If you're unsure about whether or not you should kudos a post, PM the game mod.

•Never discuss a game outside the game thread unless you're given explicit permission from the game mod. If you're unsure, ask first.

•Any votes made after the designated phase change time will be ignored even if the moderator has not closed the thread.

•Do not edit your posts in a game unless you are the game mod.

•If you sign up for a game you are expected to play. Please do not sign up for a game if you don't have time to play. If something comes up, please PM the game mod as soon as possible so you can be replaced. You may be temporarily banned from playing Mafia for violating this rule, and individual game mods may ban you from playing their games for repeated violation.

[mlmooney89]

Losty posted this great piece.

Show ContentSpoiler:

First, you probably want to know what a Mafia game is.

The Mafia game is a contest between two opposing sides: the Mafia and the Town. (Some games may also have one or more Independents.)

More information:

---

The basic idea of the Mafia game is this: A small number of all participating players are Mafia; the rest are Townies. Members of the Mafia are aware of each other's identities; Townies are not aware of any other player's affiliation. The goal of the Mafia is to blend in with the Townies in order to eliminate all of them. The Mafia wins when all Townies are dead. The goal of the Townies is to figure out who is Mafia and eliminate them. The Townies win when no Mafia members remain. Independents act independently of either team; they win when no other players remain.

During the Day phase, all players can post suspicions, accusations and banter in the Mafia game thread. They can also vote to lynch a fellow player or vote not to lynch anyone. If a player has more lynch votes than anyone else at the end of the phase, he is lynched. (This means that he dies and is eliminated from the game.) After the Day phase, the game switches to the Night phase. During this phase, members of the Mafia scheme among themselves and choose a player that they want to kill. They do this by submitting their choice to the Game Moderator via PM. (Whoever they kill is also eliminated from the game.) Some Townies may have Night Actions of their own; these are abilities that can aid the Town and are used by sending a PM in which they state their intentions to the Game Moderator. Those that don't have a Night Action simply wait throughout the Night until the Day phase commences. The game continues until either all Mafia members are dead and the Town wins, or all Townies are dead and the Mafia wins. In games with an Independent player, the game may end with all Mafia and Townies dead, leaving the Independent as the sole victor.

---

You can find a newbie newb guide here: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide

Don't be discouraged, the game seems really complex when you first hear about it, but once you start playing, you'll find it to be pretty simple to catch on.
If you do sign-up, please make sure that you participate in the game. It only takes a few minutes a day to send in a Night Action and post a lynch vote.

Words to know:

---

Game Moderator: The person who is running the game.
Mafia: The Mafia are the "bad guys" and try to kill all the Townies.
Scum: Anyone who is not a Townie
Townies: The Townies are the "good guys" and try to identify and kill all Mafia members.
Independents: Independents are players who are neither Mafia nor Townie and win by being the last player alive. They may also be known as "scum."
Theme: Most games have a theme. A theme is usually a popular TV show, film, game, or book and all players will be playing as a character from the theme. Its purpose is to add a bit more depth to the game's narrative and doesn't affect the game mechanics in any way.
Role: Players may be given a role. Each role comes with an ability that can be used to the advantage of the player and/or their team. The ability may be either passive or active.
Phase: Each game consists of phases which will be changed by the Game Moderator at set times. Most games will alternate between Day phase and Night phase. The Day phase is for players to vote on who they want to lynch. The Night phase is for the Mafia to submit their kill to the Game Moderator.
Day Action: An active ability that can be used during the Day phase.
Night Action: An active ability that can be used during the Night phase.
Lynch: Any player who is lynched is considered dead and out of the game.
Kill: Any player who is killed is considered dead and out of the game.
WIFOM: Stands for Wine In Front Of Me I don't know how to describe it so just watch this video

OMGUS: Oh My God U Suck, is when a person casts suspicion on or declares another player as scum just because that player cast suspicion on them first.
NK:Night Kill is when a player is killed at night.
SK: Serial Killer
Twilight: A period of time in a gagged game after the day ends/night begins when players are allowed to discuss the game in thread. Typically 30 minutes to 1 hour.
Gagged/ungagged: in a gagged game players can only discuss the game in thread during the day phase and Mafia members can discuss the game in pm during the night phase. In an ungagged game players are allowed to discuss the thread privately at any time they like.
Night zero: night zero is a period of time before the game begins where Mafia members are allowed to discuss the game in private communication to form a strategy.
EOD: end of day
NAI: not alignment indicative
POE: process of elimination
ATE: appeal to emotion

---

Here is a list of my usual rules.

---

Rules

• There are 2 phases: Day and Night.  
• Day phase will last 24 hours and night will last 24 hours.
• Days begin and end at 4 PM EST. There will be no twilight.
• Night zero will last from the moment role PMs are sent until the start of Day 1
• No screenshots of Any kind.
• No copypasta of any messages from the moderator.
• During the day phase vote for whomever you wish to see lynched.
• No lynch is not an option. Whoever has the most votes will be lynched.
• In the case of a tie whoever of the tied players who recieved the last vote will be lynched.
• Votes must be submitted using the proper vote tags
Code:
Code:
Vote Player
• Unvoting isn't necessary but vote changes must be submitted in a new post.
• No editing or deleting of any posts is allowed, if you have this ability using it will get you modkilled
• No personal attacks or insults, this is a friendly lighthearted game.
• Once you are dead do not influence the game in any way.
• Observers and dead players are asked to refrain from kudosing posts in the game. (Kudosing modposts, and popcorn/ghost posts is fine.)
• Observers and dead players are asked not to post excessive "ghost posts"
• This is a gagged game.
• Town players are not allowed to communicate outside the thread unless specifically permitted by their role.  • Mafia aligned players are only allowed to talk privately during the night phase.
• Whoever has the most votes will be lynched even if they only have 1 vote.
• You must participate in each phase or you will be replaced or mod killed.

---

Rules can vary from game to game, so be sure to read the rules set for each game.

[mlmooney89]

Oh does hide not work? Sorry for the wall texts...