God In Your Life vs No God In Your Life

[airportkid]

From time to time in life we face major decision points.  Should I move the whole family across five states to Guildford to a new company and a 160% income increase?  Should I run for mayor?  Should I invest 80% of my wealth into a new business with my brother-in-law?  Should I intervene in my sister's marriage to an alcoholic lout?  Etc.

Whether you believe in a God or don't, you'll devote some quantity of your time to accruing evidence to help guide the decision.  Sometimes a deadline limits the time available.  You talk to your friends and family, you get on Google and do research, you sit at the kitchen table with a pad and pencil and make tables of pros & cons, etc.  Every one of those activities takes time; every one of those activities increases your bank of credible criteria upon which to guide your decision, some more or less credibly than others.  At some point, or when the deadline falls, you pull the trigger and your life changes (or doesn't).

If you believe in a god, the amount of time you give to these activities will be less than the time a non-believer will give them.  That's because you as a believer will spend some of your time time asking your god what to do.  You'll pray.  That time is therefore unavailable to you toward other activities like counseling or research.  Your bank of criteria will then have a section of precarious credibility because reliable response to prayer has a track record indistinguishable from random chance or happy coincidence.  From a purely objective standpoint, the time spent in prayer is not optimum in what it contributes to your bank of criteria; if you'd spent that time instead by doing what the non-believer does gathering facts and recommendations you'd be better equipped to make the most successful decision.

That's the difference between a god in your life vs not having one there.  Not having one there gives you valuable additional time to do better than random chance at reaching good decisions when making a good decision will change your life.

Or stated another way, lacking a god keeps you from wasting time, and improves the veracity of the information you base your life's choices on.

You could believe in a god but simply never pray to it.  But then it isn't serving any purpose so why bother keeping it around?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

God's a poor manager if he has to wait for us to ask what he wants us to do. And inept if his signals are ambiguous to the point of uselessness. Worst God EVAH!

[Cheerful Charlie]

God is a fantasy.  If it wasn't for the fact that millions of idiots believe in God and as a result cause a lot of trouble for everybody, we could just ignore the concept of God all together.

[skyking]

I don't need a god to piss away valuable time, I am quite capable of doing that on my own and I have the track record to prove it, around here somewhere. " Rummaging noises, expletives.........."

[brewerb]

If they're good at multitasking and, for example, pray while pooping, problem solved.

[skyking]

This too shall pass

[jerryg]

A big part of praying is reflection. If you are praying, even if the God is imaginary, that means you've set aside some quiet time to dedicate to the thing that needs consideration. Particularly, if praying is something that gives you a bit of peace, it's essentially a form of meditation. It also gives a nice reference point, in the idea of "What does God want for me?" instead of being completely internalized.

If we were robots, I think you'd have a good point. But people aren't built to wake up and just start collecting data until it's time for sleep. Whether it's a morning workout, or meditation, praying, or a stiff drink after work to help wind down, there's a lot of maintenance involved with humans. And reducing praying to 'time wasted that could be spent gathering data' misses that aspect as well, even if you ignore the reflection part of it.

[Mark]

If they're good at multitasking and, for example, pray while pooping, problem solved.

Sorry but my pooping time is already spoken for.  That's when I create new worlds and galaxies for microbes.  One of these days one of those life forms is going to become sentient and turn to me for guidance.  I don't think I'm going to enjoy being God.

[brewerb]

It's just that the christians I know IRL all talk about praying, but actually spend very little time in prayer. 

And what makes you think they're not sentient prior to evacuation? Mine certainly make contact. The most frequent communication is "what the fuck did you eat?" and then demonstrate their displeasure.

[julep]

I don't think I agree.

I don't notice any difference in the amount of time I spend on gathering information to make a decision from when I was a Christian to now. The praying I was taught to do involved "talking through" the problem with God as part of the deliberation process after gathering data, while also asking that I'd be guided to a good decision. As a nonbeliever, I gather information, internally talk through the problem as I go about my other business (same as I did for praying), and be open to clues that help clarify my feelings about the choices available to me. When I was a believer I was directing the conversation to imaginary ears, but the process then and now was the same, and the benefits are the same: making a decision that is well-enough informed and that I feel is worthy of committing to.

Also, I'm not aware of evidence showing that believers make worse major life decisions in terms of outcomes than nonbelievers do, or vice versa.

[Mark]

The praying I was taught to do involved "talking through" the problem with God as part of the deliberation process after gathering data, while also asking that I'd be guided to a good decision.  As a nonbeliever, I gather information, internally talk through the problem as I go about my other business (same as I did for praying), and be open to clues that help clarify my feelings about the choices available to me.  When I was a believer I was directing the conversation to imaginary ears, but the process then and now was the same, and the benefits are the same: making a decision that is well-enough informed and that I feel is worthy of committing to.  

Also, I'm not aware of evidence showing that believers make worse major life decisions in terms of outcomes than nonbelievers do, or vice versa.

I've sometimes thought Christians who pray the way you were taught had an edge in that way.  Sure as atheists we rely more on rational thought processes but most do so as if they thought their internalized speaking voice was the only one possible.  But the brain is does a whole lot more than the muttering done by the conscious mind.  The amount of preconscious processing that takes place before every conscious thought is astounding and there is such a thing as insight and the intuitive mind which can kick in a lot of help if we leave any room for it.  It sounds like you haven't thrown out the 'baby' with the metaphysical bath water, MintyJulep.  I personally have my doubts about the advisability of the impulse which moves many of our fellow godless to exclude the irrational in all its forms from their lives.

What do you think, @Catholic_Lady?

[Gwaithmir]

I had the unfortunate experience of being brought up in a strictly Catholic household (I didn't discover until decades later that my father was really a Lutheran) and attending Catholic schools from kindergarten through high school. My life was plagued by frequent bouts of ennui, anxiety and guilt. It took well over a decade for me to escape the bonds of my indoctrination. That experience in 1982 left me with an overwhelming sense of emancipation. I was now free to consider any philosophies and new ideas, read any books, or express my honest opinions about religion without any feelings of guilt or remorse. In retrospect, God for me was nothing more than an overbearing tyrant and religion was intellectual slavery.

[Bucky Ball]

If they're good at multitasking and, for example, pray while pooping, problem solved.

I shall present this to my Catholic friends as a new cause/ministry for their consideration. 
PWP. It could be a "movement". 

... so much time wasted (just farting around) that could earn them a higher place in heaven.

[SYZ]

If they're good at multitasking and, for example, pray while pooping, problem solved.

You can't truly pray while pooping...     you're really just going through the motions.

[brewerb]

If they're good at multitasking and, for example, pray while pooping, problem solved.

You can't truly pray while pooping...     you're really just going through the motions.

Depends on what they're praying for. No diarrhea prayer, no constipation prayer, no blood prayer, no splatter prayer, no plugging prayer, please let there be enough toilet paper prayer. Just all kind of things come to mind.

[Neo_Scholastic]

Mmmmmm, no. The time I spend in prayer is time not spent watching television.

[JesseB]

>.>

Not sure if this has been said already.... but there are no god/gods in anyone's life..... Everyone gets on just fine without a god. Just some people don't realize that.....

[JesseB]

Also, regarding the OP. Sunday mornings are my day to sleep in. It's quite nice.

[JesseB]

God's a poor manager if he has to wait for us to ask what he wants us to do. And inept if his signals are ambiguous to the point of uselessness. Worst God EVAH!

He's also shit at managing a checkbook, bastards always looking to borrow money and never pay's it back.

(I can't take credit for this joke so... here)

[JesseB]

A big part of praying is reflection.  If you are praying, even if the God is imaginary, that means you've set aside some quiet time to dedicate to the thing that needs consideration.  Particularly, if praying is something that gives you a bit of peace, it's essentially a form of meditation.  It also gives a nice reference point, in the idea of "What does God want for me?" instead of being completely internalized.

If we were robots, I think you'd have a good point.  But people aren't built to wake up and just start collecting data until it's time for sleep.  Whether it's a morning workout, or meditation, praying, or a stiff drink after work to help wind down, there's a lot of maintenance involved with humans.  And reducing praying to 'time wasted that could be spent gathering data' misses that aspect as well, even if you ignore the reflection part of it.

Everyone spends time in reflection (except for narcissists but.... whatever).

The difference being religious folks may feel better but aren't actually trying to solve the problem since their imaginary friend will do it. While everyone else pulls up their pants and gets shit done after reflecting on it.


Beyond that is there a difference?

[jerryg]

A big part of praying is reflection.  If you are praying, even if the God is imaginary, that means you've set aside some quiet time to dedicate to the thing that needs consideration.  Particularly, if praying is something that gives you a bit of peace, it's essentially a form of meditation.  It also gives a nice reference point, in the idea of "What does God want for me?" instead of being completely internalized.

If we were robots, I think you'd have a good point.  But people aren't built to wake up and just start collecting data until it's time for sleep.  Whether it's a morning workout, or meditation, praying, or a stiff drink after work to help wind down, there's a lot of maintenance involved with humans.  And reducing praying to 'time wasted that could be spent gathering data' misses that aspect as well, even if you ignore the reflection part of it.

Everyone spends time in reflection (except for narcissists but.... whatever).

The difference being religious folks may feel better but aren't actually trying to solve the problem since their imaginary friend will do it. While everyone else pulls up their pants and gets shit done after reflecting on it.

Beyond that is there a difference?

Your assumption that religious people, as a generalization, aren't trying to solve the problem, is just a lame stereotype.  Sure, the wackier sects may just pray and wait for the problems to magically be solved, but in practice, that's far from the norm.  

And the difference is found when facing serious adversity. There seems to be resiliency found in the devout. "Just try your hardest" in the face of hopelessness is no small task.  God is a support system, even if it's artificial.  And I don't see a lot of pants pulling up and getting it done in general.  I see people with their support peacocks.  A lot of drug dependency.  Everyone seems to be suffering from depression.  People are fragile, and I think discounting anything that gives anyone a feeling of peace that allows them to pull up their pants and get shit done is good.

[Free]

Since God does not exist it's the same thing either way; no God in your life.

Sorry for stating the obvious ...

Just sayin' ...

[JesseB]

A big part of praying is reflection.  If you are praying, even if the God is imaginary, that means you've set aside some quiet time to dedicate to the thing that needs consideration.  Particularly, if praying is something that gives you a bit of peace, it's essentially a form of meditation.  It also gives a nice reference point, in the idea of "What does God want for me?" instead of being completely internalized.

If we were robots, I think you'd have a good point.  But people aren't built to wake up and just start collecting data until it's time for sleep.  Whether it's a morning workout, or meditation, praying, or a stiff drink after work to help wind down, there's a lot of maintenance involved with humans.  And reducing praying to 'time wasted that could be spent gathering data' misses that aspect as well, even if you ignore the reflection part of it.

Everyone spends time in reflection (except for narcissists but.... whatever).

The difference being religious folks may feel better but aren't actually trying to solve the problem since their imaginary friend will do it. While everyone else pulls up their pants and gets shit done after reflecting on it.

Beyond that is there a difference?

Your assumption that religious people, as a generalization, aren't trying to solve the problem, is just a lame stereotype.  Sure, the wackier sects may just pray and wait for the problems to magically be solved, but in practice, that's far from the norm.  

And the difference is found when facing serious adversity. There seems to be resiliency found in the devout. "Just try your hardest" in the face of hopelessness is no small task.  God is a support system, even if it's artificial.  And I don't see a lot of pants pulling up and getting it done in general.  I see people with their support peacocks.  A lot of drug dependency.  Everyone seems to be suffering from depression.  People are fragile, and I think discounting anything that gives anyone a feeling of peace that allows them to pull up their pants and get shit done is good.

Nah, plenty do try to fix the issue, but plenty frankly don't. And they don't hide it or apologize about it either. Of the latter kind I'm mostly surrounded by them 24/7

[JesseB]

If they're good at multitasking and, for example, pray while pooping, problem solved.

You can't truly pray while pooping...     you're really just going through the motions.

I don't know..... I say god a lot when I poop.... Usually followed by damnit, fucking shit, holy fuck, and god damn that hurts......


But I'm pretty sure that's not normal. >.>

(I also say all of these things when I first wake up in the morning, for at least a few hours)

[Gwaithmir]

I wish George Carlin had been famous back in the mid-1960's. If I had seen routine when I was in high school, I would probably have become an atheist on the spot. As he pointed out, I frequently asked myself how the world could be so fucked up if there was an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving God watching over us.

I also was indignant over the Catholic Church's insatiable greed. My fellow students and I were dunned for money on nearly a daily basis, causing me to wonder, "Where is all that goddam money going?!"