circumcision why why not...

[JesseB]

But the asshole docs are  like "babies don't feel pain like we do". Bullshit and they knew it.

I have to admit, as a rather large man who's not a kid anymore.... I do think saggy nuts are a slightly bigger problem (or at least closer in proximity problem), than being snipped. I mean what's done is done, but..... o.0 I don't wanna have to buy a nutt bra!

Jock straps are made for that shit.

I like boxer briefs, nice n supportive. Comfy and not horror story tighty whities I mean seriously who ever fucking thought that was a good idea eh?

[JesseB]

I think this thread proves one thing if nothing else..... guys like to talk about their balls.... Possibly a little too much lol


I find it interesting that the OP didn't specify, but we all assumed male circumcision. Because clearly we can all obviously agree that female circumcision is fucking wrong by default. But since the OP didn't specify I'd like to point out that all circumcision should be banned. SAVE THE DICKS/PUSSIES!

[Unsapien]

I think this thread proves one thing if nothing else..... guys like to talk about their balls.... Possibly a little too much lol


I find it interesting that the OP didn't specify, but we all assumed male circumcision. Because clearly we can all obviously agree that female circumcision is fucking wrong by default. But since the OP didn't specify I'd like to point out that all circumcision should be banned. SAVE THE DICKS/PUSSIES!

You're right it didn't even dawn on me, I mean female circumcision is another level of barbarity that's literally unthinkable.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I have to admit, as a rather large man who's not a kid anymore.... I do think saggy nuts are a slightly bigger problem (or at least closer in proximity problem), than being snipped. I mean what's done is done, but..... o.0 I don't wanna have to buy a nutt bra!

Jock straps are made for that shit.

I like boxer briefs, nice n supportive. Comfy and not horror story tighty whities I mean seriously who ever fucking thought that was a good idea eh?

You can get undies with a "separate chamber (or pouch)" for the privates.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I think this thread proves one thing if nothing else..... guys like to talk about their balls.... Possibly a little too much lol


I find it interesting that the OP didn't specify, but we all assumed male circumcision. Because clearly we can all obviously agree that female circumcision is fucking wrong by default. But since the OP didn't specify I'd like to point out that all circumcision should be banned. SAVE THE DICKS/PUSSIES!

You're right it didn't even dawn on me, I mean female circumcision is another level of barbarity that's literally unthinkable.

Pure male domination.

[JesseB]

I think this thread proves one thing if nothing else..... guys like to talk about their balls.... Possibly a little too much lol


I find it interesting that the OP didn't specify, but we all assumed male circumcision. Because clearly we can all obviously agree that female circumcision is fucking wrong by default. But since the OP didn't specify I'd like to point out that all circumcision should be banned. SAVE THE DICKS/PUSSIES!

You're right it didn't even dawn on me, I mean female circumcision is another level of barbarity that's literally unthinkable.

It was @Alizathat made me think about it, I think I get her concern. I'd like to cut it off at the head (pun intended), before some nut job says something stupid.


1. Comparing male circumcision to female circumcision is a false equivalence. Period. Like you said FMG is a level of barbarity that is so extreme most of us don't even entertain the thought of possibility. Any sensible person is against it by default.

     a. Circumcision on boys is usually performed at such a young age that they will not remember the event later in life, MOST of the time when it's done on older guys it's because they converted to a religion and choose to do so of their own free will (with the exception of teen boys coerced into following their parents lead). FMG is always (I think I could be wrong) performed on young women/teens when they sure as hell remember the fucking event. FMG is also usually performed only in the most remote parts of the world, without acess to proper medical care, because it's fucking outlawed every fucking other place in the world already (which is why we tend not to think about it as readily as male circumcision which is perfectly legal EVERYWHERE).

     b. People who fall prey to this false equivalence argument do so because they are upset by a perceived double standard (aka we already ban FMG but not male circumcision). There is in fact a double standard. As there is in many aspects of life on many different issues. This is a fucking fact. That does not however justify the false equivalence fallacy that many fall prey to.

2. You wouldn't cut off a dogs tail, dogs usually have their tail snipped so young they don't fucking remember it later in life, why would you do this to a human boy? That would be less of a false equivalence especially since boys are told they are no better than dogs their entire lives, and often get treated far worse. 
(growing up the family dog was always treated better than me, living proof)

3. FMG is already illegal any place with any level of decency and rule of law, so it's not something that needs to be talked about as part of our culture or society, while we should try to end it where it does actually exist, we have limited ability to fight against it. Still we should.

4. People tend to think that speaking out against male circumcision somehow threatens women, as if accepting that male circumcision is wrong would somehow bring back FMG, or lessen the horror that is FMG. This is in fact obvious bullshit.

@Aliza I think was expressing concern particularly because the more right leaning members of this community may attempt to engage in those bad arguments. They are bad arguments and I just explained why. So right leaning folks. Stop fucking using them.

[JesseB]

I think this thread proves one thing if nothing else..... guys like to talk about their balls.... Possibly a little too much lol


I find it interesting that the OP didn't specify, but we all assumed male circumcision. Because clearly we can all obviously agree that female circumcision is fucking wrong by default. But since the OP didn't specify I'd like to point out that all circumcision should be banned. SAVE THE DICKS/PUSSIES!

You're right it didn't even dawn on me, I mean female circumcision is another level of barbarity that's literally unthinkable.

Pure male domination.

So bringing up something that has no effect on anyone in living in the countries that make up potentially 100% of the members of this board, to talk about something that effects 100% of the people living in 100% of the countries in the world equates to male domination? Really?

Bullshit.

[JesseB]

Thank you @Aliza I tried my best to be as unbiased, honest, and keeping the perspective of women included in my response there, as best I could anyway. I appreciate the like on it.

[EvieTheAvocado]

...and...

...GO!!!!

(if this needs to be moved into more of a debate forum, do it. Or lock this. Or...whatever. I dunno.)

Not.

Cutting off a baby's foreskin without a medical reason is a form of child abuse.

Removing the body part of anyone without their consent and without medical reason is a form of abuse in general.

Having no foreskin means less pleasure for the penis. Pleasure for the penis is pleasurable. Pleasure is pleasurable. Pleasurable pleasure makes life pleasurable. Most people aren't asexual and can enjoy that pleasure. Need I say more? Besides "Q.E.D"?

[c172]

Oops. Yeah, I hadn't thought of the gender issue, which in and of itself is worthy of a thread (either shared with this one or on its own. You decide). This thread was meant to address male circumcision. It's a convo that gets rehashed in atheist circles everywhere, and it seems to get very emotional, and very shewed against the act.

I'm sorry for overlooking gender in this. Proceed as you wish.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Oops. Yeah, I hadn't thought of the gender issue, which in and of itself is worthy of a thread (either shared with this one or on its own. You decide). This thread was meant to address male circumcision.

When someone says "circumcision" I think "male circumcision". However, when someone says "female circumcision" I, naturally, think "female circumcision".

(However, when someone says "male circumcision" I, naturally, think "a banana without a pajama.").

[vulcanlogician]

3. FMG is already illegal any place with any level of decency and rule of law, so it's not something that needs to be talked about as part of our culture or society, while we should try to end it where it does actually exist, we have limited ability to fight against it. Still we should.

Unfortunately, this excludes my own country: http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=1910

Female and male circumcision are two VERY separate issues. I always call it FGM, btw... "female circumcision" is a disgusting euphemism. 

I doubt any male who has grown up without a foreskin wishes he had one. In fact, I'm 99% sure if one instantly appeared on their dick, they would immediately call a professional and have it removed.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Female and male circumcision are two VERY separate issues. I always call it FGM, btw... "female circumcision" is a disgusting euphemism. 

Female genital mutilation is a far worse form of genital mutilation than male genital mutilation is ... but I would argue that they're both euphemisms and that male circumcision ought to also be refereed to as male genital mutilation if we wish to avoid euphemisms on the matter. Both are forms of genital mutilation, and both are severe, one is just far more severe than the other.

[EvieTheAvocado]

I doubt any male who has grown up without a foreskin wishes he had one. In fact, I'm 99% sure if one instantly appeared on their dick, they would immediately call a professional and have it removed.

But if they masturbated to orgasm before they made the call then they'd definitely instantly change their mind, bullshit religious reasons, bullshit cosmetic reasons and bullshit pseudoscientific reasons aside, of course.

[TheGentlemanBastard]

3. FMG is already illegal any place with any level of decency and rule of law, so it's not something that needs to be talked about as part of our culture or society, while we should try to end it where it does actually exist, we have limited ability to fight against it. Still we should.

Unfortunately, this excludes my own country: http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=1910

Female and male circumcision are two VERY separate issues. I always call it FGM, btw... "female circumcision" is a disgusting euphemism. 

I doubt any male who has grown up without a foreskin wishes he had one. In fact, I'm 99% sure if one instantly appeared on their dick, they would immediately call a professional and have it removed.

Wrong on both counts. There are even ways to re-grow a foreskin.

Yet another way circumcision is nothing like FGM.

Still, just because it can be regrown doesn't mean those who had it snipped off of their kids should get any kind of pass.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Still, just because it can be regrown doesn't mean those who had it snipped off of their kids should get any kind of pass.

Agreed. They should still go straight to jail for child abuse. Their sentence should just be less severe for MGM than for FGM because MGM is less severe than FGM. Their sentence shouldn't be much less severe though, because, ya know, child abuse is child abuse.

[vulcanlogician]

Wrong on both counts.

99% of men was itself a euphemism, dude. I thought it'd be a bit TMI to say "speaking for myself." But, really-- who cares? I may as well say it: I don't personally feel in any way mutilated. Nor do I feel my parents need to be "held responsible" for anything. So there.

[JesseB]

3. FMG is already illegal any place with any level of decency and rule of law, so it's not something that needs to be talked about as part of our culture or society, while we should try to end it where it does actually exist, we have limited ability to fight against it. Still we should.

Unfortunately, this excludes my own country: http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=1910

Female and male circumcision are two VERY separate issues. I always call it FGM, btw... "female circumcision" is a disgusting euphemism. 

I doubt any male who has grown up without a foreskin wishes he had one. In fact, I'm 99% sure if one instantly appeared on their dick, they would immediately call a professional and have it removed.

The fuck? How the fuck did this happen?! WHAT THE FUCKITY FUCK FUCK! Slap that idiot judge with a fuckstick! WTF mate!



While it is true, I don't care much about my foreskin having never known it to begin with, that does not mean I support cutting it off other people, especially without their consent, and at no point did I say FGM and Male Circumcision are in any way equivalent, in fact my whole point was it fucking is not. (though I may have been a bit dyslexic calling it FMG by accident a few times). My point in calling it female circumcision a few times was to make a rather specific point, implying that we in fact do not consider the two equivalent. We call one circumcision and the other mutilation.

Again it's wrong period. But sure support one being banned and not the other on the basis that because one is mutilation and horrific, the other one being simply bad must therefor be perfectly fine and should be embraced because equality?

Bullshit.


Edit^ To be fair I think a case could be made that I was in fact correct in that statement. After all..... The US elected Trump, kinda exempts us from being able to claim we are a place of decency with concern for the rule of law.....
:p

[JesseB]

Wrong on both counts.

99% of men was itself a euphemism, dude. I thought it'd be a bit TMI to say "speaking for myself." But, really-- who cares? I may as well say it: I don't personally feel in any way mutilated. Nor do I feel my parents need to be "held responsible" for anything. So there.

Not interested in holding anyone responsible, interested in ending child abuse and cutting up kids for purely aesthetic reasons before they can even be old enough to consent. What if we thought boys looked better without noses, and started cutting those off at birth would that be ok? or you know pinky toes, or earlobes those disgusting things, why the fuck is every other form of cutting up kids not ok, but cutting up dicks perfectly fine eh?

(for the record I like earlobes on girls, fun to nibble. and toes don't bother me, nor do noses, was said to make a fucking point)

WHILE I"M AT IT. I also want to end the practice of cutting the tails/ears off dogs for purely aesthetic reasons. This kind of behavior is universally NOT OK. Just because you are a feminist doesn't mean you should be cool with cutting up anything that isn't part of a woman's body without the consent of the person. HOLY FUCKING SHIT HAVE YOU TRIED TO THINK THIS THROUGH? Or is it more you're just being a cunt and creating a strawman fallacy for fun eh? No one is saying what your'e implying. and in fact I specifically spoke out against it, and you fucking ignored it and when right on lying about my position with your strawman. Stop it. It's not appreciated. I don't like it when christens, flat earthers and the like do it why would I like it if you do it. Stop being dishonest.

Edit^ Really don't like being misrepresented, having my words twisted, or my general argument or position lied about dude. Knock it off.

[Unsapien]

I doubt any male who has grown up without a foreskin wishes he had one. In fact, I'm 99% sure if one instantly appeared on their dick, they would immediately call a professional and have it removed.

… and I imagine the reverse is also true, any man who has grown up with it wouldn't want to lose it, it's what your used to, that's not really the point. 

But doing an unnecessary medical procedure on a child for no good reason is still wrong, not unlike withholding  a needed medical procedure from a child is wrong (like the anti-vaxers)

[EvieTheAvocado]

I don't personally feel in any way mutilated. Nor do I feel my parents need to be "held responsible" for anything. So there.

Feelings shmeelings. They either ought to be held responsible for having you mutilated before you became an adult who no longer cares about nor remembers what they did to you then, or they oughtn't.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Again it's wrong period. But sure support one being banned and not the other on the basis that because one is mutilation and horrific, the other one being simply bad must therefor be perfectly fine and should be embraced because equality?

It's the "not as bad as" fallacy, also known as the Nirvana Fallacy, or Perfect Solution Fallacy.

[JesseB]

3. FMG is already illegal any place with any level of decency and rule of law, so it's not something that needs to be talked about as part of our culture or society, while we should try to end it where it does actually exist, we have limited ability to fight against it. Still we should.

Unfortunately, this excludes my own country: http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=1910

Female and male circumcision are two VERY separate issues. I always call it FGM, btw... "female circumcision" is a disgusting euphemism. 

I doubt any male who has grown up without a foreskin wishes he had one. In fact, I'm 99% sure if one instantly appeared on their dick, they would immediately call a professional and have it removed.

By the way, are you sure about this? I mean the US Government says otherwise....
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/...tting.html

Edit^ For non US folks, if the Fed gov says no, it doesn't fucking matter if a state has a law about it or not, it's still banned. Just like legalized weed, It's technically still fucking illegal. What's happening there are some states are turning a blind eye to it in an attempt to force the fed gov to change their rules. Now if states started specifically legalizing FGM to force the feds to change their rules, then you might have an argument, but I'd take a gov website over some random news organization in Australia as more authoritative on the US policy..... Just saying..... Maybe the story is true, but it's also irrelevant. If it was found unconstitutional there may be a reason why (for example a specific violation of religious freedom? idk, depends on how it's worded, but it's also irrelevant as federal law stands above state law regardless). That doesn't by default have any effect on the law of the land. IDK more digging is needed to know anything for sure. But if it's being allowed in the US IT IS WRONG. PERIOD. And I'll stand up against it.

[Dancefortwo]

3. FMG is already illegal any place with any level of decency and rule of law, so it's not something that needs to be talked about as part of our culture or society, while we should try to end it where it does actually exist, we have limited ability to fight against it. Still we should.

Unfortunately, this excludes my own country: http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=1910

Female and male circumcision are two VERY separate issues. I always call it FGM, btw... "female circumcision" is a disgusting euphemism. 

I doubt any male who has grown up without a foreskin wishes he had one. In fact, I'm 99% sure if one instantly appeared on their dick, they would immediately call a professional and have it removed.

Mmmmm, well,  I don't know about that.  My hubby wishes he had his foreskin back to find out what sex feels like with everything entact.   There is the thought that cutting off sensitive parts of the penis lessens the sexual experience. I always kinda wonder about that too.   There must be some adult men somewhere who for one reason or another had to have their foreskin removed.  I wonder if sex  was  different for them afterwards.

[EvieTheAvocado]

Wrong on both counts.

99% of men was itself a euphemism, dude. I thought it'd be a bit TMI to say "speaking for myself." But, really-- who cares? I may as well say it: I don't personally feel in any way mutilated. Nor do I feel my parents need to be "held responsible" for anything. So there.

Not interested in holding anyone responsible, interested in ending child abuse and cutting up kids for purely aesthetic reasons before they can even be old enough to consent. What if we thought boys looked better without noses, and started cutting those off at birth would that be ok? or you know pinky toes, or earlobes those disgusting things, why the fuck is every other form of cutting up kids not ok, but cutting up dicks perfectly fine eh?

(for the record I like earlobes on girls, fun to nibble. and toes don't bother me, nor do noses, was said to make a fucking point)

WHILE I"M AT IT. I also want to end the practice of cutting the tails/ears off dogs for purely aesthetic reasons. This kind of behavior is universally NOT OK. Just because you are a feminist doesn't mean you should be cool with cutting up anything that isn't part of a woman's body without the consent of the person. HOLY FUCKING SHIT HAVE YOU TRIED TO THINK THIS THROUGH? Or is it more you're just being a cunt and creating a strawman fallacy for fun eh? No one is saying what your'e implying. and in fact I specifically spoke out against it, and you fucking ignored it and when right on lying about my position with your strawman. Stop it. It's not appreciated. I don't like it when christens, flat earthers and the like do it why would I like it if you do it. Stop being dishonest.

Edit^ Really don't like being misrepresented, having my words twisted, or my general argument or position lied about dude. Knock it off.

I like you.