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06-17-2019, 04:11 PM
Favorite Deep Quotes
"The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future."
Dune has a lot of great quotes.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” -Carl Sagan.
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06-21-2019, 01:00 PM
Favorite Deep Quotes
It is easier to avoid stepping in a cow flop than scraping your boot clean.
- Old Texas cattleman's proverb.
I am a sovereign citizen of the Multiverse, and I vote!
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06-21-2019, 11:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2019, 11:08 PM by Gwaithmir.
Edit Reason: Typo
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Favorite Deep Quotes
"If you're ever in a war, instead of throwing a grenade at the enemy, try throwing one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it will make them think about how stupid war is. And, while they're busy thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them." (Jack Handey)
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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06-23-2019, 03:34 AM
Favorite Deep Quotes
The justice system isn't perfect has now become nothing more than an excuse for an extremely flawed system.
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06-26-2019, 07:05 PM
Favorite Deep Quotes
"Those who belong to this small class have tasted how sweet and blessed a possession philosophy is, and have also seen enough of the madness of the multitude; and they know that no politician is honest, nor is there any champion of justice at whose side they may fight and be saved. Such a one may be compared to a man who has fallen among wild beasts --he will not join in the wickedness of his fellows, but neither is he able singly to resist all their fierce natures, and therefore seeing that he would be of no use to the State or to his friends, and reflecting that he would have to throw away his life without doing any good either to himself or others, he holds his peace, and goes his own way. He is like one who, in the storm of dust and sleet which the driving wind hurries along, retires under the shelter of a wall; and seeing the rest of mankind full of wickedness, he is content, if only he can live his own life and be pure from evil or unrighteousness, and depart in peace and good-will, with bright hopes."
--Plato
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06-26-2019, 08:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2019, 08:29 PM by Alan V.)
Favorite Deep Quotes
(06-26-2019, 07:05 PM)vulcanlogician Wrote: "Those who belong to this small class have tasted how sweet and blessed a possession philosophy is, and have also seen enough of the madness of the multitude; and they know that no politician is honest, nor is there any champion of justice at whose side they may fight and be saved. Such a one may be compared to a man who has fallen among wild beasts --he will not join in the wickedness of his fellows, but neither is he able singly to resist all their fierce natures, and therefore seeing that he would be of no use to the State or to his friends, and reflecting that he would have to throw away his life without doing any good either to himself or others, he holds his peace, and goes his own way. He is like one who, in the storm of dust and sleet which the driving wind hurries along, retires under the shelter of a wall; and seeing the rest of mankind full of wickedness, he is content, if only he can live his own life and be pure from evil or unrighteousness, and depart in peace and good-will, with bright hopes."
--Plato
Perhaps that is "philosophy" in the original sense of the word, as the love of wisdom. Which philosophers, besides Plato and Thoreau, promoted that idea?
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06-26-2019, 08:16 PM
Favorite Deep Quotes
"If you would enjoy the fruit, pluck not the flower." (Benjamin Franklin)
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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06-26-2019, 09:04 PM
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(06-26-2019, 08:10 PM)Alan V Wrote: Perhaps that is "philosophy" in the original sense of the word, as the love of wisdom. Which philosophers, besides Plato and Thoreau, promoted that idea?
Alfred North Whitehead Wrote:So far as concerns philosophy only a selected group can be explicitly mentioned. There is no point in endeavouring to force the interpretations of divergent philosophers into a vague agreement. What is important is that the scheme of interpretation here adopted can claim for each of its main positions the express authority of one, or the other, of some supreme master of thought - Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Locke, Hume, Kant. But ultimately nothing rests on authority; the final court of appeal is intrinsic reasonableness.
The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. I do not mean the systematic scheme of thought which scholars have doubtfully extracted from his writings. I allude to the wealth of general ideas scattered through them. His personal endowments, his wide opportunities for experience at a great period of civilization, his inheritance of an intellectual tradition not yet stiffened by excessive systematization, have made his writing an inexhaustible mine of suggestion.
Well, all of them... at least a little bit.  Emerson and Thoreau in a way that I particularly dig.
Plato argues in the Republic that a simple city, one that satisfies only the essentials of life, is superior to one that is contaminated by luxuries. (Proto-Thoreauvian thought?)
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06-26-2019, 09:07 PM
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(06-26-2019, 08:16 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote: "If you would enjoy the fruit, pluck not the flower." (Benjamin Franklin) 
"If you would enjoy the flower, pluck not the fruit." --vulcanlogician (paraphrasing Plato)
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06-26-2019, 09:39 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2019, 10:48 PM by Alan V.)
Favorite Deep Quotes
Alfred North Whitehead Wrote:The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.
So what then, the law of diminishing returns? The soup of the soup of the soup of the duck?
Edit: I just spent a few minutes on Amazon searching for a good book on the wisdom of philosophers -- selections of quotes, that sort of thing. I would read that book.
I don't want a book about the history of philosophy, in which everyone contradicts everyone else. I want something representing the best ideas from philosophy, as judged from what we now know from modern perspectives.
Any suggestions?
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06-27-2019, 01:02 AM
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(06-26-2019, 08:10 PM)Alan V Wrote: (06-26-2019, 07:05 PM)vulcanlogician Wrote: "Those who belong to this small class have tasted how sweet and blessed a possession philosophy is, and have also seen enough of the madness of the multitude; and they know that no politician is honest, nor is there any champion of justice at whose side they may fight and be saved. Such a one may be compared to a man who has fallen among wild beasts --he will not join in the wickedness of his fellows, but neither is he able singly to resist all their fierce natures, and therefore seeing that he would be of no use to the State or to his friends, and reflecting that he would have to throw away his life without doing any good either to himself or others, he holds his peace, and goes his own way. He is like one who, in the storm of dust and sleet which the driving wind hurries along, retires under the shelter of a wall; and seeing the rest of mankind full of wickedness, he is content, if only he can live his own life and be pure from evil or unrighteousness, and depart in peace and good-will, with bright hopes."
--Plato
Perhaps that is "philosophy" in the original sense of the word, as the love of wisdom. Which philosophers, besides Plato and Thoreau, promoted that idea?
Epicurus
Wikipedia
For Epicurus, the purpose of philosophy was to attain the happy, tranquil life, characterized by ataraxia—peace and freedom from fear— and aponia—the absence of pain— and by living a self-sufficient life surrounded by friends.
I am a sovereign citizen of the Multiverse, and I vote!
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06-27-2019, 01:08 AM
Favorite Deep Quotes
(06-26-2019, 09:39 PM)Alan V Wrote: Alfred North Whitehead Wrote:The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.
So what then, the law of diminishing returns? The soup of the soup of the soup of the duck? 
Edit: I just spent a few minutes on Amazon searching for a good book on the wisdom of philosophers -- selections of quotes, that sort of thing. I would read that book.
I don't want a book about the history of philosophy, in which everyone contradicts everyone else. I want something representing the best ideas from philosophy, as judged from what we now know from modern perspectives.
Any suggestions?
On the other hand...
"There is nothing so absurd that some philosopher has not already said it."
- Cicero
Chose your philosophers carefully.
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06-27-2019, 06:12 AM
Favorite Deep Quotes
(06-26-2019, 09:39 PM)Alan V Wrote: Alfred North Whitehead Wrote:The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.
So what then, the law of diminishing returns? The soup of the soup of the soup of the duck? 
Edit: I just spent a few minutes on Amazon searching for a good book on the wisdom of philosophers -- selections of quotes, that sort of thing. I would read that book.
I don't want a book about the history of philosophy, in which everyone contradicts everyone else. I want something representing the best ideas from philosophy, as judged from what we now know from modern perspectives.
Any suggestions?
Try Amazon. Read the book reviews.
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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06-27-2019, 06:15 AM
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"A kind word is like a spring day." (Russian Proverb)
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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06-27-2019, 02:08 PM
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I no longer have the book, so I can only paraphrase, but one of my favorites is a Chinese proverb about meditation:
"A man combs his head once a day, why not his heart?"
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.
Vivekananda
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06-27-2019, 02:27 PM
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(06-27-2019, 02:08 PM)Dānu Wrote: I no longer have the book, so I can only paraphrase, but one of my favorites is a Chinese proverb about meditation:
"A man combs his head once a day, why not his heart?"
I don't always comb my hair.
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06-28-2019, 12:32 AM
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"A thousand probabilities do not make one truth." (Italian Proverb)
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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07-01-2019, 09:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2019, 09:26 AM by Alan V.)
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(06-27-2019, 01:02 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: (06-26-2019, 08:10 PM)Alan V Wrote: Perhaps that is "philosophy" in the original sense of the word, as the love of wisdom. Which philosophers, besides Plato and Thoreau, promoted that idea?
Epicurus
Wikipedia
For Epicurus, the purpose of philosophy was to attain the happy, tranquil life, characterized by ataraxia—peace and freedom from fear— and aponia—the absence of pain— and by living a self-sufficient life surrounded by friends.
Okay, so on your recommendation I read and highlighted The Essential Epicurus over the weekend.
Epicurus taught in his own philosophical school called "The Garden" around 300 B.C. in Athens. As students, he accepted both men and women and both freemen and slaves, and they called themselves "friends" or "intimates". In many ways, the school was like a religion since it taught not only a worldview but also a way of life.
Epicurus wrote over 300 essays, only a few of which remain. Still he was quite influential with certain later thinkers.
His worldview was that the universe was infinite, and consisted of the void and material entities made up of atoms. Knowledge of that universe was to be approached through the senses. So he encouraged his students to use reason and look for naturalistic explanations for what they saw, rather than resorting to myths and superstitions. A fair amount of what he wrote were speculations concerning possible explanations for time, the heavenly bodies and their motions, weather, earthquakes, and so on. This worldview is obviously replaced by the sciences today.
In many ways, Epicurus reminded me of Thoreau, who he apparently influenced. He encouraged his students to lead simple lives, following their own nature. His doctrine of pursuing pleasure and avoiding pain was based on a stipulated definition for the word "pleasure," so it's not surprising it led to later confusions. His idea of pursuing pleasure was to do the minimum nature required to avoid pain, not to seek pleasures above and beyond that low threshold. In fact, he had a rather low opinion of sexual intercourse, which he made clear with such sayings as, "Sexual intercourse has never conferred a benefit; one should reckon oneself glad if it has not brought any harm."
But his writings did include a number of wise sayings, which met the original definition of philosophy as a love of wisdom. I will post a few "deep quotes" later.
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07-01-2019, 09:30 PM
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"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." -- Abdul Alhazred (attrib.)
" I have nothing to say and I am saying it and that is poetry. "
-- John Cage
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07-02-2019, 12:24 AM
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(07-01-2019, 09:20 AM)Alan V Wrote: In fact, he had a rather low opinion of sexual intercourse, which he made clear with such sayings as, "Sexual intercourse has never conferred a benefit; one should reckon oneself glad if it has not brought any harm."
Well I'm of the view that sex is overrated on balance, but I certainly wouldn't say it has never conferred a benefit, however fleeting and however fraught with unintended consequences.
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07-02-2019, 12:50 AM
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(07-01-2019, 09:20 AM)Alan V Wrote: (06-27-2019, 01:02 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: (06-26-2019, 08:10 PM)Alan V Wrote: Perhaps that is "philosophy" in the original sense of the word, as the love of wisdom. Which philosophers, besides Plato and Thoreau, promoted that idea?
Epicurus
Wikipedia
For Epicurus, the purpose of philosophy was to attain the happy, tranquil life, characterized by ataraxia—peace and freedom from fear— and aponia—the absence of pain— and by living a self-sufficient life surrounded by friends.
Okay, so on your recommendation I read and highlighted The Essential Epicurus over the weekend.
Epicurus taught in his own philosophical school called "The Garden" around 300 B.C. in Athens. As students, he accepted both men and women and both freemen and slaves, and they called themselves "friends" or "intimates". In many ways, the school was like a religion since it taught not only a worldview but also a way of life.
Epicurus wrote over 300 essays, only a few of which remain. Still he was quite influential with certain later thinkers.
His worldview was that the universe was infinite, and consisted of the void and material entities made up of atoms. Knowledge of that universe was to be approached through the senses. So he encouraged his students to use reason and look for naturalistic explanations for what they saw, rather than resorting to myths and superstitions. A fair amount of what he wrote were speculations concerning possible explanations for time, the heavenly bodies and their motions, weather, earthquakes, and so on. This worldview is obviously replaced by the sciences today.
In many ways, Epicurus reminded me of Thoreau, who he apparently influenced. He encouraged his students to lead simple lives, following their own nature. His doctrine of pursuing pleasure and avoiding pain was based on a stipulated definition for the word "pleasure," so it's not surprising it led to later confusions. His idea of pursuing pleasure was to do the minimum nature required to avoid pain, not to seek pleasures above and beyond that low threshold. In fact, he had a rather low opinion of sexual intercourse, which he made clear with such sayings as, "Sexual intercourse has never conferred a benefit; one should reckon oneself glad if it has not brought any harm."
But his writings did include a number of wise sayings, which met the original definition of philosophy as a love of wisdom. I will post a few "deep quotes" later.
How to live a good life, (eudaimonia) was something a lot of Greek Philosophers thought about. Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Epicurus, the Stoics, and many others besides. And it is still a question to be thought about by modern people even today.
Not all of Epicurus comes directly from his writings. Lactantius, a second century Christian writer wrote quite a bit about Epicurus, whom he did not like. Epicurus's problem of evil, if God is powerful ,cares about us and is good, why does evil exist comes from Lactantius.
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07-02-2019, 05:28 PM
Favorite Deep Quotes
Epicurus had certain themes he returned to again and again, so I will arrange a few of his sayings under his themes. These are all quotes from The Essential Epicurus, translated by Eugene O'Connor.
On science:
"It is the task of natural science to work out in detail the causes of the most important facts."
"Whenever we admit one explanation but reject another that agrees equally well with the evidence, it is clear that we fall short in every way of true scientific inquiry and resort instead to myth."
"Only let mythological explanations not be admitted, and they will not be, if we make inferences about the unseen by attending closely to the visible."
On religion:
"The assertions of the many concerning the gods are conceptions grounded not in experience but in false assumptions."
"Those who claim that the soul is incorporeal are talking rubbish, for the soul would not be able to act or be acted upon if that were so."
"[Death] is nothing either to the living or the dead, since it does not exist for the living, and the dead no longer are."
On philosophy:
"The man who alleges that he is not yet ready for philosophy or that the time for it has passed him by, is like the man who says that he is either too young or too old for happiness."
"In philosophy delight coincides with knowledge."
"At the same time we must laugh, philosophize, manage our households, take care of our other private affairs, and never cease proclaiming the sayings born of true philosophy."
"We must not pretend to be philosophers, but be philosophers in truth. For we do not stand in need of the appearance of health but of true health."
"Vain is the word of a philosopher, by which no mortal suffering is healed."
On desires:
"Of the necessary desires, there are those that are necessary for happiness, those that are necessary for the body's freedom from disturbance, and those that are necessary for life itself."
"We must not resist nature but obey her. We shall obey her by fulfilling the necessary desires and the physical ones if they do not harm us, but harshly rejecting the harmful ones."
"Let us completely drive away foul habits, as we would base men who have done us great harm for a long time."
"You ought to do nothing in your life that will make you afraid if it becomes known to your neighbor."
On pleasure and pain:
"Everything we do is for the sake of this, namely, to avoid pain and fear."
"When we do not feel pain, it is because we no longer have need for pleasure. Therefore, we declare that pleasure is the beginning and the goal of a happy life."
"No pleasure is evil in itself; but the means of obtaining some pleasures bring in their wake troubles many times greater than the pleasures."
"It is better to endure these particular pains so that we may feel greater pleasures. It is good to refrain from these particular pleasures so that we may not suffer more difficult pains."
On wealth:
"We regard self-sufficiency as a great good."
"The greatest fruit of self-sufficiency is freedom."
"Natural wealth is limited and easily obtained; the riches of idle fancies go on forever."
"When measured by the natural purpose of life, poverty is great wealth; limitless wealth, great poverty."
"It is unseemly to be thrifty to the point of meanness."
On friendship:
"Of all the things that wisdom provides for living one's entire life in happiness, the greatest by far is the possession of friendship."
"The noble man is most concerned with wisdom and friendship."
On justice:
"Natural justice is a pledge guaranteeing mutual advantage, to prevent one from harming others and to keep oneself from being harmed."
"The tranquil man is not troublesome to himself or to another."
"Justice's great reward is peace of mind."
On human nature:
"He who follows nature and not idle opinions is independent in all things."
"Your anxiety is in direct proportion to your forgetfulness of nature, for you bring on yourself unlimited fears and desires."
"No fool is satisfied with what he has, but instead grieves for what he does not possess."
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07-02-2019, 11:53 PM
Favorite Deep Quotes
"If you ever catch on fire, try to avoid seeing yourself in the mirror, because I bet that's what really throws you into a panic." (Jack Handey)
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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07-03-2019, 12:29 AM
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At work.
Apologies if previously posted.
Scientists do not coddle ideas.
They crash test them.
They run them into brickwalls at sixty miles an hour and examine the pieces.
If the ideas are sound, the pieces will be of the wall.
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07-09-2019, 01:42 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019, 01:49 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
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I am not an anarchist myself but I love reading their works, to challenge my political views, and of course I do love to challenge authority, plus I just find anarchist thought fascinating. Here's a great quote from Pëtr Kropotkin:
Quote:"We are so perverted by an education which from infancy seeks to kill in us the spirit of revolt, and to develop that of submission to authority; we are so perverted by this existence under the rule of a law, which regulates every event in life — our birth, our education, our development, our love, our friendship — that, if this state of things continues, we shall lose all initiative, all habit of thinking for ourselves. Our society seems no longer able to understand that it is possible to exist otherwise than under the reign of Law, elaborated by a representative government and administered by a handful of rulers; and even when it has gone so far as to emancipate itself from the thraldom, its first care had been to reconstitute it immediately. “The Year I. of Liberty” has never lasted more than a day, for after proclaiming it men put themselves the very next morning under the yoke of Law and Authority..."
From Law and Authority.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” -Carl Sagan.
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