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Poll: Do you have free will?
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YES, I DO have free will, in the sense that it is ultimately up to me, or ultimately my choice, which actions I take and when.
17 58.62%
NO, I do NOT have free will, in the sense that it is NOT ultimately up to me, and NOT ultimately my choice, which actions I take and when.
12 41.38%
Total 29 vote(s) 100%
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Does free will exist?

Does free will exist?
(08-24-2021, 09:54 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(08-23-2021, 02:00 PM)Dom Wrote:
(08-23-2021, 12:27 PM)Alan V Wrote:  I think it is very likely that evolution automated only those aspects of perception that could be automated, and left free those which couldn't, those which depended on conscious input from immediate circumstances to be accurate.

This is an argument about labels, not function.

Part of the free will debate is about definitions and usage, certainly.  But in my opinion, even such apparently scholarly discussions have huge ethical and legal implications. 

If everyone truly believed that "everything is determined," then we would lose a lot of commonsense discriminations between behaviors, no matter how philosophers finessed the issue to repair the damage done.  That affect was shown in the research I quoted above, which was mentioned by philosopher Alfred Mele.  It is an important motivation for the debate.

I would go so far as to say that this single issue is a big obstacle to more people embracing materialistic and atheistic perspectives.  As long as people associate both materialism and atheism with determinism and its implications, they will reject both out of hand.  I certainly would myself if I thought determinism was the inescapable implication of either.

It's like how people associated atheism and communism.  It's an entirely unnecessary and in this case self-inflicted encumbrance.

Philosophy is essentially about labels. In the positive sense, labels are valuable as short-hand definitions for ideas about defining reality. But they become handholds for personal beliefs. In the negative sense, they become weapons of labels to defeat rational discussion. Making an argument around a label that has little intrinsic meaning (but great technical meaning to the user) allows the user a feeling of superiority.

I love people who think deeply about some subject or other. But I don't admire those who drown their posts in labels. There is merit in non-labeled and terminologistic terms. IE, direct words describing an idea not using a shorthand label.
I am tying notes to balloons and tumble-weeds and sending them out to the world. Where they are found, I do not know...
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Does free will exist?
Alfred Mele, (philosopher, NOT neuroscientist) ... see 1:05.
Al gives away his game.

I fart in your general direction.  Angel

Does free will exist?
I have but nothing happens, how long do I have to watch before I get to the dirty bits?

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