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Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
#26

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-12-2023, 02:17 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2023, 04:25 AM)Reltzik Wrote: The weird uncle you only see twice a year and who your own household don't get along well with is still family.

I can choose both friends and family. I can drop the blade on anyone. Who and where I come from is not to whom or where I belong. Provenance is not the path forward. We each chart our own courses.

The weird uncle gets the blade, as did the racists and toxic-religious in my own family. My family does not own me.

Family means something, in a way. But I have never equated "family" to absolute loyalty. I have a couple I would not bother to talk to as neighbors and avoid at family gatherings. I consider genetic relationships less important than most people do. "Blood" is thinner than friendships sometimes.
Never try to catch a dropped kitchen knife!
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#27

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-14-2023, 02:15 AM)Dom Wrote: Well, the weird uncle we don't ever talk to is still family, that cannot be changed. We can only change whether we interact. He is always going to be one of the family though. We can pick and choose whom we interact with, but not what family we are born into. I am sure that is all Aliza meant with her comment. I am quite sure she doesn't hang out at goat sacrificing rituals.

If you define "family" strictly by genetics, sure. In my family we define family on an emotional basis.
On hiatus.
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#28

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-14-2023, 11:42 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-14-2023, 02:15 AM)Dom Wrote: Well, the weird uncle we don't ever talk to is still family, that cannot be changed. We can only change whether we interact. He is always going to be one of the family though. We can pick and choose whom we interact with, but not what family we are born into. I am sure that is all Aliza meant with her comment. I am quite sure she doesn't hang out at goat sacrificing rituals.

If you define "family" strictly by genetics, sure. In my family we define family on an emotional basis.

I am sure Aliza meant "my people" to be fellow Jews. Not just people she hangs with or likes. It's cultural.
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#29

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-11-2023, 10:41 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(04-10-2023, 02:07 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: I really hope that you aren't actually claiming those ultra-orthodox nincompoops as "your people". If I read that right "your people" were the ones urging sanity and restraint.

Yeah, they're still my people. We don't get to disown people because we don't like their behavior. We have to address the behaviors because disowning isn't an option. Nod

(04-14-2023, 02:15 AM)Dom Wrote:
(04-13-2023, 10:10 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I don't come at it from your experience of abuse, but it's clear that whatever our motivations, we've arrived at the same conclusion -- that while blood may be thicker than water it ain't as binding as emotions, nor enough to overcome bullshit.

The only obligations I own are the ones I accept. I reject the weird uncle of religionistas kiddie-fiddling. Just because they're human too doesn't speak anything about me or my ethos. Some humans are cunts. Some are great. I can't own either behavior; I must cut my own path.

Well, the weird uncle we don't ever talk to is still family, that cannot be changed. We can only change whether we interact. He is always going to be one of the family though. We can pick and choose whom we interact with, but not what family we are born into. I am sure that is all Aliza meant with her comment. I am quite sure she doesn't hang out at goat sacrificing rituals.

If I'm reading everything correctly, Thump is disagreeing with Aliza's assertion that we cannot or should not disown family members. I am opposed to the idea of disowning children because they are dependent on parents. I'm not really bothered by the idea of disowning any family that is not a dependent. Being related to someone does not obligate you to retain any connection to them beyond the literal genetic connection. Why shouldn't we disown someone that only makes our lives measurably worse? The only argument I see is that not doing so allows more opportunity to be a positive influence. That doesn't seem enough to require someone to accept a worse life in exchange for. At best, that's an ideal for someone willing to accept the sacrifice.
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#30

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-14-2023, 02:03 PM)isbelldl Wrote:
(04-11-2023, 10:41 PM)Aliza Wrote: Yeah, they're still my people. We don't get to disown people because we don't like their behavior. We have to address the behaviors because disowning isn't an option. Nod

(04-14-2023, 02:15 AM)Dom Wrote: Well, the weird uncle we don't ever talk to is still family, that cannot be changed. We can only change whether we interact. He is always going to be one of the family though. We can pick and choose whom we interact with, but not what family we are born into. I am sure that is all Aliza meant with her comment. I am quite sure she doesn't hang out at goat sacrificing rituals.

If I'm reading everything correctly, Thump is disagreeing with Aliza's assertion that we cannot or should not disown family members. I am opposed to the idea of disowning children because they are dependent on parents. I'm not really bothered by the idea of disowning any family that is not a dependent. Being related to someone does not obligate you to retain any connection to them beyond the literal genetic connection. Why shouldn't we disown someone that only makes our lives measurably worse? The only argument I see is that not doing so allows more opportunity to be a positive influence. That doesn't seem enough to require someone to accept a worse life in exchange for. At best, that's an ideal for someone willing to accept the sacrifice.

Aliza said nothing about family and disowning. She stated that Jews were "her people". That is a cultural thing, Jews stick together because of persecution throughout centuries all over the place. There is more of a feeling of belonging together than in other cultures.

It's a purely cultural thing. Nothing to do with personal feeling or liking a specific group of people.

That said, the current state of affairs in Israel doesn't suggest much "togetherness" anymore.
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#31

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-14-2023, 01:42 PM)Dom Wrote:
(04-14-2023, 11:42 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: If you define "family" strictly by genetics, sure. In my family we define family on an emotional basis.

I am sure Aliza meant "my people" to be fellow Jews. Not just people she hangs with or likes. It's cultural.

If you go back and reread my original comment, it should be clear that I wasn't talking about Aliza at all. I was addressing a commonly held notion that one cannot choose one's family. How you, Aliza, or anyone chooses to define what "family" means to you is your business, not mine. I was merely giving my opinion about that notion, which was alluded-to in the simile.
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#32

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
If you want to have some fun put <family as a biblical concept> into Google and see how wonderful the fuckheads think "family" is.... in a sort of mafia conception of family.

Primitive shits.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#33

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-14-2023, 04:21 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(04-12-2023, 12:19 PM)Dom Wrote: These pigs ate slop made of veggies and bread the supermarket pulled off the shelves because they were past the printed date or started to dry up a bit. Plus they had a lush acre of grasses and roots and flowers and Puffballs (mushrooms) and insects and whatnot. I think it's the forage that added that tangy flavor you only find in top grade meat. We were dirt poor then, and all their food was sourced. We had chickens for eggs and the pigs for meat, plus a veggie garden. And we had 2 or 3 pigs at a time and sold the excess to the butcher. It worked. After a few years we had enough money to start a business.

A natural outcome of "animal husbandry" and I don't object.  We raise animals for food and have to kill them for it.

Animals are not little people in furry coats.
In our culture, that's what they have come to be seen as.
I (we) see that to be true with our pets.
Our kids in "4H" raise them knowing they will be eaten.
Just so their end is "humane" as Temple Grandin has written about.
https://www.amazon.com/Temple-Grandins-G...1612127444
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#34

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-14-2023, 06:12 PM)Minimalist Wrote: If you want to have some fun put <family as a biblical concept> into Google and see how wonderful the fuckheads think "family" is.... in a sort of mafia conception of family.

Primitive shits.

Family values in the bible
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#35

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-11-2023, 11:25 PM)abaris Wrote: Day after day, millons of animals are going to their final destination. Which is the slaughterhouse. I bet, countless lambs have been killed these days to fill some bellies.

So I find it just a bit hypocritical to be outraged over a single goat. Chances are, with jews as well as muslims, these animals led a better life before their doom, than our's being destined to stock the supermarket shelves.

Different scenario altogether.  We slaughter animals to provide food.

These Jews are killing a goat merely to satisfy some ludicrous belief
in a non-existent supernatural entity, Yahweh.  It's primitive and it's
barbaric.

The number of Israeli Jews approaching Jerusalem's Temple Mount
with goats prepared for sacrifice has been growing in recent years.
Every year, when male goats are born, many farmers won't vaccinate
or brand them because it'd make them ineligible to be sacrificed.
Some of these farmers take multiple goats to the Temple Mount for
others to sacrifice.

Apparently police are detaining people and seizing their potential
sacrificial goats for re-homing.       Oh, yes... and fuck religion!
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#36

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-11-2023, 11:25 PM)abaris Wrote: Day after day, millons of animals are going to their final destination. Which is the slaughterhouse. I bet, countless lambs have been killed these days to fill some bellies.

So I find it just a bit hypocritical to be outraged over a single goat. Chances are, with jews as well as muslims, these animals led a better life before their doom, than our's being destined to stock the supermarket shelves.


... Which is why some people stop eating meat and they still get shat on for it. Which is pretty weird.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” -Carl Sagan.
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