So now let's chat . . .

[Rubaiyyat]

The eminent German philologist and lifelong student of eastern religions Max Müeller, chief editor of Sacred Books of the East (Oxford University Press, 1879-1910), a monumental, 50-volume English translation of the major texts of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, and Islam that took thirty-one years to complete and wasn’t actually finished until the publication of its final volume ten years after his death in 1900—wrote, in its Preface, “There never was a false god, unless you consider a child a false person.”

If that quote looks familiar, it may be because I adopted it long ago as the most insightful, spot-on comment on religion that I’d ever encountered in my sixty-odd years of studying how religion ever became part of the common, everyday human experience; and so I often refer to it on this site and others, which has led more than a few people to ask why I bother with it—especially since I’m an atheist.

Well, I chose it because I too believe–indeed have always believed, since as far back as I can remember—that the religious beliefs that I’d come to find so absurd and ultimately unworthy of me as a reasoning person had somehow originally come about in a reasonable enough manner; that we humans were once as a child in the world, and then of course reasoned as a child, but as time went on, our reasoning evolved along with everything else about us—except that some people who had a personal stake in keeping us in intellectual and emotional childhood, well, did their damndest to keep us from progressing past their long-gone stale, passè teachings.

I despise even the whiff of such individuals in my presence; but I’ve also come to appreciate–deeply–the story of humanity’s religious evolution, from its apparent beginnings some 40,000 years or 2000 generations ago right up to the present as I now know it, having spent several years researching that subject and ultimately written a book about it.
Which in turn brings me to another pithy declaration: “Reason creates, sustains, and ultimately destroys religion”; while anyone connversant with Brahmanic Hindu thought will instantly recognize the trimurti paraphrasing here. (Yes, the declaration itself is mine–from that book.)

I might add that as a philosophical-minded fellow, I consider myself an natural Advaita Vedantist–having once read a great Foreword to the Upanishads by the eminent Oxford chair of its Eastern Religions study program and subsequent first Vice-president/soon to be second full President of India, Sri Rhadakrishnan.

Oh, I do recognize the foolishness of presuming that there are gods–but then, I have no problem allowing that not everything found in the world of religion is necessarily bullshit.

And you?

[Dom]

The eminent German philologist and lifelong student of eastern religions Max Müeller, chief editor of Sacred Books of the East (Oxford University Press, 1879-1910), a monumental, 50-volume English translation of the major texts of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, and Islam that took thirty-one years to complete and wasn’t actually finished until the publication of its final volume ten years after his death in 1900—wrote, in its Preface, “There never was a false god, unless you consider a child a false person.”

If that quote looks familiar, it may be because I adopted it long ago as the most insightful, spot-on comment on religion that I’d ever encountered in my sixty-odd years of studying how religion ever became part of the common, everyday human experience; and so I often refer to it on this site and others, which has led more than a few people to ask why I bother with it—especially since I’m an atheist.

Well, I chose it because I too believe–indeed have always believed, since as far back as I can remember—that the religious beliefs that I’d come to find so absurd and ultimately unworthy of me as a reasoning person had somehow originally come about in a reasonable enough manner; that we humans were once as a child in the world, and then of course reasoned as a child, but as time went on, our reasoning evolved along with everything else about us—except that some people who had a personal stake in keeping us in intellectual and emotional childhood, well, did their damndest to keep us from progressing past their long-gone stale, passè teachings.

I despise even the whiff of such individuals in my presence; but I’ve also come to appreciate–deeply–the story of humanity’s religious evolution, from its apparent beginnings some 40,000 years or 2000 generations ago right up to the present as I now know it, having spent several years researching that subject and ultimately written a book about it.
Which in turn brings me to another pithy declaration: “Reason creates, sustains, and ultimately destroys religion”; while anyone connversant with Brahmanic Hindu thought will instantly recognize the trimurti paraphrasing here. (Yes, the declaration itself is mine–from that book.)

I might add that as a philosophical-minded fellow, I consider myself an natural Advaita Vedantist–having once read a great Foreword to the Upanishads by the eminent Oxford chair of its Eastern Religions study program and subsequent first Vice-president/soon to be second full President of India, Sri Rhadakrishnan.

Oh, I do recognize the foolishness of presuming that there are gods–but then, I have no problem allowing that not everything found in the world of religion is necessarily bullshit.

And you?

You are still creating too many new threads. It's bad forum etiquette, and it can actually get you banned for spamming. I do realize though that you are just not familiar with forums like this.

Also, your posts are way too long, that's why you are not getting many responses. Try to keep them short and on point. You are getting a lot of "too long, didn't read" reactions. 

Try to chime in with others on different topics, you also can't expect people to engage with you in your threads if you don't do it with theirs. Everyone is equal here.

This place is for discussions, not reading or writing books.

Just trying to be helpful, I would like to see you fit in better.

[Minimalist]

I have no problem allowing that not everything found in the world of religion is necessarily bullshit.

And you?

I'd put the bullshit percentage at 99%.... and the remaining 1% is irrelevant.


Religion is the most lucrative scam ever created by humans.

[GenesisNemesis]

Might be a long shot but did you ever teach at Mountain House community college?

[Cavebear]

“There never was a false god, unless you consider a child a false person.”

You said "There never was a false god, unless you consider a child a false person.  Given the definition of a deity as a "Supreme Being", doesn't the multiplicity of claimed "gods" give you you a problem about "supremeness"?  And are you suggesting that children creating similarly imaginitive beings are actually inventing "gods"?

And Advaita Vedanta (/ʌdˈvaɪtə vɛˈdɑːntə/; Sanskrit: अद्वैत वेदान्त, IAST: Advaita Vedānta) is a Hindu sādhanā, a path of spiritual discipline and experience,[note 1] and the oldest extant tradition of the orthodox Hindu school Vedānta.[note 2] The term Advaita (literally "non-secondness", but usually rendered as "nondualism",[4][5] and often equated with monism[note 3]) refers to the idea that Brahman alone is ultimately real, while the transient phenomenal world is an illusory appearance (maya) of Brahman. In this view, jivatman, the experiencing self, is ultimately non-different ("na aparah") from Ātman-Brahman, the highest Self or Reality.[3][6][7][note 4] The jivatman or individual self is a mere reflection or limitation of singular Ātman in a multitude of apparent individual bodies.

Which clearly shows you are no atheist...  

[Cavebear]

The eminent German philologist and lifelong student of eastern religions Max Müeller, chief editor of Sacred Books of the East (Oxford University Press, 1879-1910), a monumental, 50-volume English translation of the major texts of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, and Islam that took thirty-one years to complete and wasn’t actually finished until the publication of its final volume ten years after his death in 1900—wrote, in its Preface, “There never was a false god, unless you consider a child a false person.”

If that quote looks familiar, it may be because I adopted it long ago as the most insightful, spot-on comment on religion that I’d ever encountered in my sixty-odd years of studying how religion ever became part of the common, everyday human experience; and so I often refer to it on this site and others, which has led more than a few people to ask why I bother with it—especially since I’m an atheist.

Well, I chose it because I too believe–indeed have always believed, since as far back as I can remember—that the religious beliefs that I’d come to find so absurd and ultimately unworthy of me as a reasoning person had somehow originally come about in a reasonable enough manner; that we humans were once as a child in the world, and then of course reasoned as a child, but as time went on, our reasoning evolved along with everything else about us—except that some people who had a personal stake in keeping us in intellectual and emotional childhood, well, did their damndest to keep us from progressing past their long-gone stale, passè teachings.

I despise even the whiff of such individuals in my presence; but I’ve also come to appreciate–deeply–the story of humanity’s religious evolution, from its apparent beginnings some 40,000 years or 2000 generations ago right up to the present as I now know it, having spent several years researching that subject and ultimately written a book about it.
Which in turn brings me to another pithy declaration: “Reason creates, sustains, and ultimately destroys religion”; while anyone connversant with Brahmanic Hindu thought will instantly recognize the trimurti paraphrasing here. (Yes, the declaration itself is mine–from that book.)

I might add that as a philosophical-minded fellow, I consider myself an natural Advaita Vedantist–having once read a great Foreword to the Upanishads by the eminent Oxford chair of its Eastern Religions study program and subsequent first Vice-president/soon to be second full President of India, Sri Rhadakrishnan.

Oh, I do recognize the foolishness of presuming that there are gods–but then, I have no problem allowing that not everything found in the world of religion is necessarily bullshit.

And you?

[Cavebear]

everything[/i] found in the world of religion is necessarily bullshit.[/font][/size][/color]

And you?

Yeah, I meant to address that part...  There is much in religious texts that make sense in reality.  Be kind, don't kill neighbors, respect elders, feed the hungry...  But those are in the religious books because the more civilized humans had already figured those out.  So the guidance was sort of a primer to living in larger groups for those who joining them having lived like a pack of wolves.  A class in "Introduction To City Life" as it were...

The detailed religious ceremonies was all just the city-dwellers own imaginings of how and why they did slightly more civilized things.  And those theistic explanations are slowly fading away as we begin to understand the non-religious but ethical/humanistic bases of our society.

[pocaracas]

First... if you want to write your posts in some other text editor, please use something that has no formatting. Something like Notepad, or Notepadd++.
Writing in M$Word and then copying onto here, bring sin a whole host of formatting that is annoying to process when quoting parts of your post.

I have no problem allowing that not everything found in the world of religion is necessarily bullshit.

And you?

I have no problem in admitting that, for a good deal of humanity's time on this planet, religion has provided some form of self-policing which has caused many people to act better than they would otherwise.
It's been therapy for many.
But it does hinge on the pre-existing belief.
Anyone not conforming to that belief would suffer as they were removed from society.

Nowadays, religion is a relic, still valued by some, but mostly ignored.

[Cavebear]

The eminent German philologist and lifelong student of eastern religions Max Müeller, chief editor of Sacred Books of the East (Oxford University Press, 1879-1910), a monumental, 50-volume English translation of the major texts of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, and Islam that took thirty-one years to complete and wasn’t actually finished until the publication of its final volume ten years after his death in 1900—wrote, in its Preface, “There never was a false god, unless you consider a child a false person.”

If that quote looks familiar, it may be because I adopted it long ago as the most insightful, spot-on comment on religion that I’d ever encountered in my sixty-odd years of studying how religion ever became part of the common, everyday human experience; and so I often refer to it on this site and others, which has led more than a few people to ask why I bother with it—especially since I’m an atheist.

Well, I chose it because I too believe–indeed have always believed, since as far back as I can remember—that the religious beliefs that I’d come to find so absurd and ultimately unworthy of me as a reasoning person had somehow originally come about in a reasonable enough manner; that we humans were once as a child in the world, and then of course reasoned as a child, but as time went on, our reasoning evolved along with everything else about us—except that some people who had a personal stake in keeping us in intellectual and emotional childhood, well, did their damndest to keep us from progressing past their long-gone stale, passè teachings.

I despise even the whiff of such individuals in my presence; but I’ve also come to appreciate–deeply–the story of humanity’s religious evolution, from its apparent beginnings some 40,000 years or 2000 generations ago right up to the present as I now know it, having spent several years researching that subject and ultimately written a book about it.
Which in turn brings me to another pithy declaration: “Reason creates, sustains, and ultimately destroys religion”; while anyone connversant with Brahmanic Hindu thought will instantly recognize the trimurti paraphrasing here. (Yes, the declaration itself is mine–from that book.)

I might add that as a philosophical-minded fellow, I consider myself an natural Advaita Vedantist–having once read a great Foreword to the Upanishads by the eminent Oxford chair of its Eastern Religions study program and subsequent first Vice-president/soon to be second full President of India, Sri Rhadakrishnan.

Oh, I do recognize the foolishness of presuming that there are gods–but then, I have no problem allowing that not everything found in the world of religion is necessarily bullshit.

And you?

Sorry, I seem to have clicked before actually posting. I have a twitchy mouse-finger...

[Dom]

 And are you suggesting that children creating similarly imaginitive beings are actually inventing "gods"?

That is actually a valid analogy in my mind. Children don't have much knowledge base, that leaves their imagination free to run wild. The same was the case with the early humans, hence the "god of the gaps". God was used to explain that which they did not understand because of a lack of knowledge.

[Cavebear]

 And are you suggesting that children creating similarly imaginitive beings are actually inventing "gods"?

That is actually a valid analogy in my mind. Children don't have much knowledge base, that leaves their imagination free to run wild. The same was the case with the early humans, hence the "god of the gaps". God was used to explain that which they did not understand because of a lack of knowledge.

Among the ignorant (meaning only those that did not know) the concept of gods as powers of nature came to exist in people's minds to help those ancient people "explain things". The explanations were not accurate, but they were struggling with questions as best they could.

We know better today (or should) as a result of those earliest questions. While they were very inaccurate about causes, they were doing the best they could given the lack of knowledge at the time. I respect them for asking the questions even if they were so far wrong.

I also understand that, in the future, much of what the most knowledgeable of us (and I do not count myself among them) think to be true will be shown to be incorrect to some degree. F=M*A will probably still be accepted, but quanta, dark matter and energy, and spacetime will certainly be better understood.

But one thing I am sure of is that no future understandings of reality (or ethics) will be based on theistic ideas. We will have more clarity of thought and a greater understanding of what reality and ethics are.