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Why does God hate us?
#1

Why does God hate us?
(Hate atheists I mean...and actually anyone not following the one true religion, whichever one that is)

I know many theists say that atheists hate god, but we don't, obviously... just the religions formed in its name. But really, if god was real, isn't it actually the other way around? He hates us. But why?

This topic came up between my wife and I a few weeks ago after the death of her older sister (only 56). So we had a conversation that we almost never have, because early in our marriage we both realized that I can't believe for the reasons that she does & she knows that I'm not an atheist because I want to be, it's just that that's where the evidence (or lack there of) has lead me, so we just stopped talking about it. But the truth of our mortality has been coming to the fore more often these days for a number of reasons, her sister's death was just the latest.

So we started talking about god & the afterlife & my wife began speaking about her "direct" experiences with god over her life. Visions, "prophetic" dreams,  "god inspired" feelings. I'm not going to waste time recounting them here, but (and I didn't say this to her, but her experiences seemed very banal to me). (Frankly that's also one of the things about the old religious texts the bugged me too, water to wine *yawn*, walking on water *snore*, no wonder people sleep in church. Heaven on earth with streets of gold & jewels etc.. *barf*)

I told her that I've had many of these same experiences too, but I said the mind is a very powerful thing, it can, under the right conditions make you see & experience things that aren't actually there, and memory is very faulty, I have no doubt that I have memories of things that didn't happen the way that I think I remember they did. Especially the memories I have formed while under stress. Also I've done a few types of mind altering drugs over the years and well yeah some really strange shit has gone through my head.

So she asked me, what would it take for me to believe? She wasn't trying to convert me or anything, just did I know what evidence I would accept, and I'm not really sure I came up with a very good answer, but tell me what you think...

I said it would take a direct intervention with god itself, in the "flesh" so to speak. Like what she said she's had, except it would have to be an experience that I literally COULD NOT IMAGINE, and I can imagine a helluva lot.

But then I said to her, "why do you think god would give you a direct experience of him/it and not me?", and she didn't have an answer, I didn't expect her too. Any answer would have probably pissed me off to be honest.

I sought god for years, I have multiple versions of the bible & some other religious texts and I've actually read them cover to cover, I prayed for guidance, asked for a sign. I even remember the time I asked for a sign from god when I was sitting in one of our fields under a tree & when I went to get up, I saw a 6 leafed clover at my feet & I thought for a bit that that was pretty good, nice and simple (I was 15). Until I remembered that our fields were seeded with plants that were Genetically modified for higher yields and there were probably millions of 3,4,5,6 leafed clovers all over the place, so it was more a sign of Monsanto then god.

But like, if theists are right, I'll be tortured for eternity if I get this wrong, but I did my best and you're telling me that god wouldn't even lift one tiny little finger to "save" me? He/It knows what I would need to get me to believe right? Better in fact then I would know myself.

So why does god hate us so much that he wants to send us to hell, it's his choice not ours.

If he was real anyway...
[Image: 20220702-163925.jpg]

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#2

Why does God hate us?
You have to remember that a deity is always formed from the minds of its believers. The god will always be what the believer wants it to be. So the hate is a mere projection from the believer's mind, a bias and prejudice to be excused under divinity. Because an intense dislike is better personally accepted via a false sense of love through a higher power's perspective.

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#3

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 12:29 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: You have to remember that a deity is always formed from the minds of its believers. The god will always be what the believer wants it to be. So the hate is a mere projection from the believer's mind, a bias and prejudice to be excused under divinity. Because an intense dislike is better personally accepted via a false sense of love through a higher power's perspective.

So are you suggesting that some believers think that people who don't believe like them should be tortured?

Yeah actually I guess that's true.
[Image: 20220702-163925.jpg]

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#4

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 01:04 AM)Unsapien Wrote: So are you suggesting that some believers think that people who don't believe like them should be tortured?

Yeah actually I guess that's true.

Remember, they view this torture as divine judgment passed by their omnibenevolent deity. And any judgment or torture they personally inflict is them doing god's work. It's not wrong if god encourages it. They've created for themselves a concept whereby they can be horrible human beings and not be punished for it.

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#5

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 01:04 AM)Unsapien Wrote: So are you suggesting that some believers think that people who don't believe like them should be tortured?

Usually tortured FIRST, before being killed, but it's the killing that's the priority, and this is true in ALL arenas, not just religion.  Face it, earth's total land area is just under 200 million sq. miles and there just ISN'T enough room for misaligned or nonsynchronous beliefs.  Torturing just before killing teaches the person being killed a crucial lesson and they'll not make that same mistake again.
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#6

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 01:04 AM)Unsapien Wrote:
(07-17-2022, 12:29 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: You have to remember that a deity is always formed from the minds of its believers. The god will always be what the believer wants it to be. So the hate is a mere projection from the believer's mind, a bias and prejudice to be excused under divinity. Because an intense dislike is better personally accepted via a false sense of love through a higher power's perspective.

So are you suggesting that some believers think that people who don't believe like them should be tortured?

Yeah actually I guess that's true.

History says "YES."  Repeatedly and emphatically.

Always remember the wise words of Anne Lamott.

[Image: anne-lamott-4550.jpg]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#7

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 01:21 AM)airportkid Wrote:
(07-17-2022, 01:04 AM)Unsapien Wrote: So are you suggesting that some believers think that people who don't believe like them should be tortured?

Usually tortured FIRST, before being killed, but it's the killing that's the priority, and this is true in ALL arenas, not just religion.  Face it, earth's total land area is just under 200 million sq. miles and there just ISN'T enough room for misaligned or nonsynchronous beliefs.  Torturing just before killing teaches the person being killed a crucial lesson and they'll not make that same mistake again.

Actually I'd think the torturing is for "teaching" the people that are witnessing the act what happens to people who don't obey. The killing part is probably more likely because they know that if this person is left alive they'll become an even worse "threat" to the status quo that they were before.
[Image: 20220702-163925.jpg]

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#8

Why does God hate us?
I'm kind of hoping that a theist wanders into this thread though and can articulate some sort of reasonable response.

Like I said, my wife didn't have an answer, and any answer as to why god would let me be tortured for eternity when he could easily stop it, would be insulting at best. It would be saying basically that I'm not worthy of being loved, that god made me knowing he would cause me to suffer, basically for no reason, and I'm sure my wife understands the implications, and since she obviously believes that I'm worth loving, it must be something difficult for her to think about.

So I know any answer to this question will piss me off, and probably every other atheist in the forum too, so if one does happen to come in and give it a shot, I'm not going to vent any anger at them, because I sincerely want to see how they think about this, and I'm hoping there isn't a big dog piling on anyone that tries to give a sincere effort.

I know it was difficult for my wife when I came out to her as an atheist, because I heard her talking with her friends about it. Her first response seriously pissed me off... Which was "everyone believes in god" Aggravated But I didn't say anything at the time because I knew she was probably just regurgitating what she'd been told, and she was probably a little in shock too.

One other reason that religions piss me off, it caused her unnecessary pain & grief for no reason, she must have found some way to rationalize it, found some way to think that I could still go the heaven or at least not go to hell. I remember her telling me later on that she thought that some spirits were roaming the earth because they weren't bad enough to go to hell but not good enough to go to heaven, that they had "unfinished business", that's probably where her mind is at.
[Image: 20220702-163925.jpg]

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#9

Why does God hate us?
Quote:I'm kind of hoping that a theist wanders into this thread though and can articulate some sort of reasonable response.


That would be first now, wouldn't it?

Tongue
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#10

Why does God hate us?
Yeah, this forum doesn't seem to get as many theists wandering in as AF.org gets.

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#11

Why does God hate us?
Lucky us.  Maintains the property values!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#12

Why does God hate us?
Time to roll this one out again. NSFW because, well, Slayer.

On hiatus.
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#13

Why does God hate us?
god hates humans because, everyone was supposed to be gay, and only breed during mating season. However, something went wrong in the baking process. One of the measurements was off.

And since the supreme being is a bit of an egomaniac, it's not its fault, blame has to be placed somewhere.
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#14

Why does God hate us?
"God hates me!"
"Hate him back."
[Image: M-Spr20-Weapons-FEATURED-1-1200x350-c-default.jpg]
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#15

Why does God hate us?
God hates us, because we wear plaids.
God is a fashonista, as we all know.
Deuteronomy 22:11 - 22:12 "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.
Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear."
We also know that these fashion laws remain in effect for the New Covenant.
How do we know that ?
We know that because as Jesus looked out over the crowd while he was on the cross, he was dismayed at the fashions and ugly garment choices he saw from that vantage place.
The gospels then record what he said about what he saw.
He rolled his eyes, and was seen to flip his wrist slightly, as he said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do".
That is why God hates us. He gave us fashion rules, and we ignore Him. He told us what "fabulous fashion" is, and we ignore Him.
Test
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#16

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 03:11 AM)Unsapien Wrote: I'm kind of hoping that a theist wanders into this thread though and can articulate some sort of reasonable response.


Any theist? Or only a Christian theist?  Dodgy
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#17

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 12:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: God hates us, because we wear plaids.
God is a fashonista, as we all know.
Deuteronomy 22:11 - 22:12 "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.
Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear."
We also know that these fashion laws remain in effect for the New Covenant.
How do we know that ?
We know that because as Jesus looked out over the crowd while he was on the cross, he was dismayed at the fashions and ugly garment choices he saw from that vantage place.
The gospels then record what he said about what he saw.
He rolled his eyes, and was seen to flip his wrist slightly, as he said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do".
That is why God hates us. He gave us fashion rules, and we ignore Him. He told us what "fabulous fashion" is, and we ignore Him.

That would certainly answer the question, "Why does god HAT us?"            Tip hat
                                                         T4618
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#18

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(07-17-2022, 03:11 AM)Unsapien Wrote: I'm kind of hoping that a theist wanders into this thread though and can articulate some sort of reasonable response.


Any theist? Or only a Christian theist?  Dodgy

Any of course. I just talk about Christianity more because it's the one I know the most about. 

But Jews don't believe in hell and eternal punishment do they? I thought they just believed in a permanent death. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
[Image: 20220702-163925.jpg]

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#19

Why does God hate us?
Why does god hate humans & allow torture & death?  
Well, he can't do all that to himself now, can he?   Angel

Oh sure, he tried with the Jesus character but technically, he could only kill off three quarters of himself (long hilarious story).
It's just never enough.

The god is the ultimate sadist, serial killer - aways looking to get back to that first taste of that first time.

In short, god is us - made in our image - the ouroboros. Shy
________________________________________________
A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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#20

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(07-17-2022, 03:11 AM)Unsapien Wrote: I'm kind of hoping that a theist wanders into this thread though and can articulate some sort of reasonable response.


Any theist? Or only a Christian theist?  Dodgy

A Christian theist of course! You're nearly as pagan as the rest of us. Tongue  Most Jews have too much sense to believe in that hellfire and brimstone rubbish. It's not like we expect you to be able to unravel what we will generously call the "theology" of a Greco-Roman death cult gone horribly awry and left to fester for a couple of millennia.

Honestly, most Christians don't believe it either. Even the ones that claim to believe it don't really believe it. Most of the Christians in my family view it as a bunch of superstitious tripe cooked up during the Dark Ages to terrify people and completely unworthy of any serious thought.
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#21

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 05:50 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(07-17-2022, 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote: Any theist? Or only a Christian theist?  Dodgy

A Christian theist of course! You're nearly as pagan as the rest of us. Tongue  Most Jews have too much sense to believe in that hellfire and brimstone rubbish. It's not like we expect you to be able to unravel what we will generously call the "theology" of a Greco-Roman death cult gone horribly awry and left to fester for a couple of millennia.

Honestly, most Christians don't believe it either. Even the ones that claim to believe it don't really believe it. Most of the Christians in my family view it as a bunch of superstitious tripe cooked up during the Dark Ages to terrify people and completely unworthy of any serious thought.

There is also a ton of actual real evidence that many more than your family also think it's BS.
In most acute care hospitals, EDs and ICUs, when asked about whether people want a critically ill family member be allowed to expire ("Comfort Measures Only" and or "DNR") there is no difference (and in my experience the religious actually WANT more *life-saving* measures done) between the heaven believers and non-believers. If they did actually believe what they say they believe, they would be happy they or their loved ones were about to see God, and be in heaven. They know it's crap.
Test
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#22

Why does God hate us?
I would love to have a God to hate.
This is because it would mean that there is a deity in the universe that gave a shit about us.
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#23

Why does God hate us?
(07-17-2022, 12:24 AM)Unsapien Wrote: (Hate atheists I mean...and actually anyone not following the one true religion, whichever one that is)

The true one.
It's obvious.
Odin made it that way.
His son features in a multi million dollar film released this week.

(07-17-2022, 12:24 AM)Unsapien Wrote: I know many theists say that atheists hate god, but we don't, obviously... just the religions formed in its name. But really, if god was real, isn't it actually the other way around? He hates us. But why?

I normally have a straight line to God (prayer) to ask this type of question, sadly at this time God was not able to answer as He was busy giving cancer to babies.
Once he picks up, i'll be sure to let you know.

(07-17-2022, 12:24 AM)Unsapien Wrote: This topic came up between my wife and I a few weeks ago after the death of her older sister (only 56). So we had a conversation that we almost never have, because early in our marriage we both realized that I can't believe for the reasons that she does & she knows that I'm not an atheist because I want to be, it's just that that's where the evidence (or lack there of) has lead me, so we just stopped talking about it. But the truth of our mortality has been coming to the fore more often these days for a number of reasons, her sister's death was just the latest.

Sorry to hear about your wife's sister.
We are all linked.

(07-17-2022, 12:24 AM)Unsapien Wrote: So we started talking about god & the afterlife & my wife began speaking about her "direct" experiences with god over her life. Visions, "prophetic" dreams,  "god inspired" feelings. I'm not going to waste time recounting them here, but (and I didn't say this to her, but her experiences seemed very banal to me). (Frankly that's also one of the things about the old religious texts the bugged me too, water to wine *yawn*, walking on water *snore*, no wonder people sleep in church. Heaven on earth with streets of gold & jewels etc.. *barf*)

I told her that I've had many of these same experiences too, but I said the mind is a very powerful thing, it can, under the right conditions make you see & experience things that aren't actually there, and memory is very faulty, I have no doubt that I have memories of things that didn't happen the way that I think I remember they did. Especially the memories I have formed while under stress. Also I've done a few types of mind altering drugs over the years and well yeah some really strange shit has gone through my head.

So she asked me, what would it take for me to believe? She wasn't trying to convert me or anything, just did I know what evidence I would accept, and I'm not really sure I came up with a very good answer, but tell me what you think...

I said it would take a direct intervention with god itself, in the "flesh" so to speak. Like what she said she's had, except it would have to be an experience that I literally COULD NOT IMAGINE, and I can imagine a helluva lot.

But then I said to her, "why do you think god would give you a direct experience of him/it and not me?", and she didn't have an answer, I didn't expect her too. Any answer would have probably pissed me off to be honest.

I sought god for years, I have multiple versions of the bible & some other religious texts and I've actually read them cover to cover, I prayed for guidance, asked for a sign. I even remember the time I asked for a sign from god when I was sitting in one of our fields under a tree & when I went to get up, I saw a 6 leafed clover at my feet & I thought for a bit that that was pretty good, nice and simple (I was 15). Until I remembered that our fields were seeded with plants that were Genetically modified for higher yields and there were probably millions of 3,4,5,6 leafed clovers all over the place, so it was more a sign of Monsanto then god.

But like, if theists are right, I'll be tortured for eternity if I get this wrong, but I did my best and you're telling me that god wouldn't even lift one tiny little finger to "save" me? He/It knows what I would need to get me to believe right? Better in fact then I would know myself.

So why does god hate us so much that he wants to send us to hell, it's his choice not ours.

If he was real anyway...

God doesn't hate you.
At best He, or She doesn't give a damn.
At worst you will live forever.
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#24

Why does God hate us?
God hates Chris. Apparently, Chris made some off-color joke about God's wife.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#25

Why does God hate us?
Because humans are hateful and hating tribal little shits who hate everyone who's different from them. So has it been and so shall it ever be. Pope

And since god is a sick primitive figment of our sick primitive imaginations, of course he's also full of hate of the other.

"The idea of hell was born of ignorance, brutality, fear cowardice, and revenge. This idea testifies that our remote ancestors were the lowest beasts. Only from dens, lairs, and caves, only from mouths filled with cruel fangs, only from hearts of fear and hatred, only from the conscience of hunger and lust, only from the lowest and most debased could come this cruel, heartless and bestial of all dogmas.”
Robert G. Ingersoll

Looking for much depth in religion - or humanity - is pointless. We are, indeed, a virus with shoes, which thinks it's so much deeper that its primal, simple, animalistic drives.

I might be drunk (and hopeless) but I'm also right. Us looking for some deeper meaning to all the shit we do is as pathetic as we are.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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