(03-08-2020, 04:29 PM)SteveII Wrote: [ -> ]I know precision in language is not always celebrated here, but there is a difference between "Christian atrocities" and "Christians who committed atrocities." For it to be the former, it would have to be driven by the actual ideology. Since that is not the case, it is the latter.
Fair point. So let's work through the whole list and see whether each item is simply Christians doing things incidental to their ideology (ie, things where their Christianity was not a motivating factor and they would likely have done it even if they weren't Christians), or whether it seems to be motivated by the ideology. I'll also ask whether they seem to be
promoting the ideology, because the Great Commission drives the promotion of ideology. (EDIT: And, too be clear, suppressing competing religions would count as promoting Christianity.) Finally, I'll rank each as LIKELY, MAYBE, or LIKELY NOT motivated by Christian ideology, since I'm not a mind-reader and can't say for sure what was going on in the heads of people over a millenium ago.
Also, I'm not an expert on the period, so I'm not fully familiar with the history. Mostly I'm doing a sniff test to see whether it makes sense to infer whether these were motivated by Christianity or not. I'm sure better-read people than I could give much more authoritive opinions on the actual motivations at play in these cases.
Quote:314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks the gentiles (non-Christians). The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of Goddess Artemis.
So are we to believe that their Christianity, and the exclusive nature of the Christian religion, had little to do with the targeting of non-Christians and worship of a different deity? Do we believe that they would have focused those attacks on gentiles if they were themselves gentiles, and denounced a specifically non-Christian religion if they were themselves non-Christian? It seems likely that their Christianity was a motivating factor.
LIKELY.
Quote:324 The emperor Constantine declares Christianity as the only official religion of the Roman empire. In Dydima, Minor Asia, he sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the Pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.
So are we to believe that Constantine's eviction of non-Christians, specifically, was not motivated by Christianity? What sense does this particular discrimination make, save either a Christian persecuting non-Christians or, perhaps, a not-yet-Christian emperor persecuting non-Christians to appease a Christian constituency? The general persecution of non-Christians could easily be motivated by Christian ideology (depending which contradictory points you ignore), as can the suppression of rival religions. The exact motivations are not identified here, but I'd tend to assume a religious basis unless I saw evidence to the contrary.
LIKELY.
Quote:326 Constantine, following the instructions of his mother Helen, destroys the temple of the god Asclepius in Aigeai Cilicia and many temples of the goddess Aphrodite in Jerusalem, Aphaca, Mambre, Phoenicia, Baalbek, etc.
330 Constantine steals the treasures and statues of the Pagan temples of Greece to decorate Nova Roma (Constantinople), the new capital of his Empire.
335 Constantine sacks many Pagan temples of Minor Asia and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers”. Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.
341 Flavius Julius Constantius persecutes “all the soothsayers and the Hellenists”. Many gentile Hellenes are either imprisoned or executed.
346 New large scale persecutions against non-Christian peoples in Constantinople. Banishment of the famous orator Libanius accused as a “magician”.
These items are about sacking and persecuting Pagan temples, which could easily be violence for the promotion of Christianity, but could also be simple greed. So I'll put these in the "maybe" column. Persecution of soothsayers and magicians also fall into the "maybe" column. So that's 5 for
MAYBE.
Quote:353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifices and “idols”.
Huh. If only there were some part of the Christian religion that banned idolatry, I could see this being motivated by ideology. And if only the majority of competing religions did worship involving sacrifices, I could see this as suppression of non-Christian religion. If only.
LIKELY.
Quote:354 A new edict of Constantius orders the closing of all Pagan Temples. Some of them are profaned and turned into brothels or gambling rooms. Executions of Pagan priests. First burning of libraries in various cities of the Empire. The first lime factories are built next to closed Pagan Temples. A large part of Sacred Gentile architecture is turned into lime.
Why target Pagan priests and not Christian priests? Why target Pagan temples and not Christian churches?
LIKELY.
Quote:356 A new edict of Constantius orders the destruction of the Pagan Temples and the execution of all “idolaters”.
LIKELY, for reasons discussed already.
Quote:357 Constantius outlaws all methods of Divination (Astrology not excluded).
The Bible has some passages which frown on soothsaying (see Lev 19:26 for one example)... but I could also see a civil purpose in restricting con artists from fleecing people.
MAYBE.
Quote:359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.
Do I really have to explain why this is
LIKELY?
Quote:361 to 363 Religious tolerance and restoration of the Pagan cults declared in Constantinople (11th December 361) by the Pagan emperor Flavius Claudius Julianus.
This helps give context to the rest of the list, but doesn't IMO count as an atrocity. Nor do I think it's presented as one. I won't be counting it.
Quote:363 Assassination of Emperor Julianus (26th June).
This one, actually, I don't think belongs on the list. Julianus was likely not assassinated, though rumors to that effect sprung up very quickly after his death. I'm ranking this as not an atrocity.
Quote:364 Emperor Flavius Jovianus orders the burning of the Library of Antioch. An Imperial edict (11th September) orders the death penalty for all Gentiles that worship their ancestral Gods or practice Divination (“sileat omnibus perpetuo divinandi uriositas”). Three different edicts (4th February, 9th September, 23rd December) order the confiscation of all properties of Pagan Temples and the death penalty for participation in Pagan rituals, even private ones.
Lots of ones here.
Burning of library: The library of Antioch was a repository for many Pagan texts, and was therefore greatly disliked by the local Christians. Jovianus ordered it burnt in an effort to appeal to the local citizens. It backfired, no pun intended. I'm ranking this as a
MAYBE.
Death penalty for worshiping ancestral gods or practicing divination?
LIKELY.
Confiscations from Pagan Temples?
MAYBE.
Death penalty for Pagan rituals?
LIKELY.
Quote:365 An Imperial edict (17th November) forbids the gentile (Pagan) officers of the army to command Christian soldiers.
Gee, why this specific discrimination? Why favor Christians over Pagans?
LIKELY.
Quote:370 Valens orders a tremendous persecution of non-Christian peoples in all the Eastern Empire. In Antioch, among many other non-Christians, the ex-governor Fidustius and the priests Hilarius and Patricius are executed. Tons of books are burnt in the squares of the cities of the Eastern Empire. All the friends of Julianus are persecuted (Orebasius, Sallustius, Pegasius etc.), the philosopher Simonides is burned alive and the philosopher Maximus is decapitated.
Another busy year.
Persecution of non-Christians in Eastern Empire:
LIKELY. I'm guessing the executions mentioned right after that are part of this item.
Burnt books:
MAYBE.
Persecution of friends of Julianus and killing philosophers: Again, Julianus, also known as Julianus the Apostate, was very unpopular with Christians for obvious reasons, so I can definitely read a religious motivation into this, either through guilt by association or their own Hellenistic beliefs. However, close associates of a previous ruler are often inconvenient for a new ruler with a new agenda to have hanging around. So
MAYBE.
Quote:372 Valens orders the governor of Minor Asia to exterminate all the Hellenes and all documents of their wisdom.
373 New prohibition of all divination methods. The term “Pagan” (pagani, villagers, equivalent to the modern insult, “peasants”) is introduced by the Christians to demean non-believers.
375 The temple of god Asclepius in Epidaurus, Greece, is closed down by the Christians.
380 On 27th February, Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of Emperor Flavius Theodosius, requiring that “all the various nations, which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion, which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter”. Non-christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind”. In another edict Theodosius calls “insane” those that do not believe in the christian god and outlaws all disagreements with the Church dogmas. Ambrosius, bishop of Milan, starts destroying all the Pagan Temples of his area. Christian priests lead the mob against the Temple of Goddess Demeter in Eleusis and try to lynch the hierophants Nestorius and Priskus. The 95 year-old hierophant Nestorius, ends the Eleusinian Mysteries and announces the predominance of mental darkness over the human race.
381 On 2nd May, Theodosius deprives of all their rights the Christians that return back to the Pagan religion. In all the Eastern Empire the Pagan temples and Libraries are looted or burned down. On 21st December, Theodosius outlaws even simple visits to the temples of the Hellenes. In Constantinople, the temple of goddess Aphrodite is turned to a brothel and the temples of Sun and Artemis to stables.
LIKELY, in all of these cases.
Quote:382 “Hellelujah” (“Glory to Yahweh”) is imposed in the Christian mass.
... is this an atrocity? I don't think this counts as an atrocity.
Quote:384 Theodosius orders the Praetorian Prefect Maternus Cynegius, a dedicated Christian, to cooperate with the local bishops and destroy the temples of the Pagans in Northern Greece and Minor Asia.
385 to 388 Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop “Saint” Marcellus with his gangs scour the countryside and sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic temples, shrines and altars. Among others they destroy the temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the temple of Zeus in Apamea, the temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the temples of Palmyra. Thousands of innocent Pagans from all sides of the empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.
386 Theodosius outlaws (16th June) the care of the sacked Pagan temples.
388 Public talks on religious subjects are also outlawed by Theodosius. The old orator Libanius sends his famous Epistle “Pro Templis” to Theodosius, with a hope that the few remaining Hellenic Temples will be respected and spared.
389 to 390 All non-Christian date-methods are outlawed. Hordes of fanatic hermits from the desert flood the cities of the Middle East and Egypt and destroy statues, altars, libraries and Pagan temples, and lynch the Pagans. Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, starts heavy persecutions against non-Christian peoples, turns the temple of Dionysos into a Christian church, burns down the Mithraeum of the city, destroys the temple of Zeus and burlesques the Pagan priests before they are killed by stoning. The Christian mob profanes the cult images.
I'm going to rank all of these as
LIKELY. That includes the sacks of the temples. Previous sackings I'd been ranking as maybe because they might have been done for greed, but the involvement of church officials and actively profaning them bumps it up to a likelihood of being motivated by Christianity, in my book.
So, SteveII, are there any of the ones I ranked as likely being motivated by Christianity where you think inferring likelihood is unwarranted? Not just "we don't know for sure" or "benefit of the doubt", but where we should actually think it wasn't likely a causal factor? Do you have any accounts or evidence about the motivations for these acts, or to suggest they didn't occur at all?