Atheist Discussion

Before you start foaming at the mouth and spitting poison at me like some Benzedrine puff adder (Sybil Fawlty) just let me say I'm not challenging you, judging you or criticizing you, I just want to try and understand you. Of course I make my assumptions but I don't assume them correct. Having said that . . . . Why atheism? 

Now, the most obvious would be you don't believe in, or worship gods. But there seems to be a stark contrast between your everyday atheist and the atheists you encounter on forums like this. I had checked other forums, most of them long dead, before I settled here and this doesn't seem like something exclusive to this forum. You seem so angry, mean, hateful and facetious.

The majority of people I know are atheist, at least in their beliefs. Somehow I don't think that they are the same caliber as the atheists I've seen on all of those dead forums. The atheists I know in the real world don't want to discuss it. They don't act as if they are a part of the collective. 

From my admittedly brief observation of atheists online I can see them roaring into town in a beat up SUV with atheist bumper stickers pasted all over the vehicle, hanging out of the windows, hollering, guns shooting into the air, looking for the local church and courthouse to make absolutely certain that never the twain shall meet. 

Hair triggered to set off at the slightest provocation in case any of the locals, amateur atheists, or [I shudder to think] a theist should hazard a word. I know not all of you are like this, but a remarkably large percentage of you are.

To those and to the more subtle ones, why express your atheism in such a different way than the more subtle atheists in "real life."

You rant about hating the mythology. The pretense that the alleged deities are real, but it is more likely than not that you teach your young children Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny are real. In their prime stage of development. 

You rant that these mythologies shouldn't be allowed to enforce public opinion, especially in a political sense, but that's the nature of the game. 

Why atheism?

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]You seem so angry, mean, hateful and facetious.

Dealing with jackasses will do that to a person.

(05-04-2019, 12:53 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]You seem so angry, mean, hateful and facetious.

Dealing with jackasses will do that to a person.  

Like I don't know that. 

It's not a choice. I couldn't believe any religion if you held a gun to my head. 


There are all these religions in the world, and people all firmly believe the stories they have been raised on are the only right ones, that they are the chosen ones. 


For me, the indoctrination just never took. I stopped going to church when I was 10.

My atheism draws its origin in my childhood and was reinforced and developped by my life experience and knowledge of various fields, most specifically in history that led me to strongly reject Christian dogma and many of its core values. Being never raised in a religious home from an atheist mother and apatheist father, I was never led to believe in a god neither was I led in the rituals surrounding them or included in a sub-community. Of course, my grand-parents being more religious and my culture being heavily influenced by Christian and more precisely Catholic culture, I was familiar from an early age with the various key part of its mythology like Genesis, the Garden of Eden, the Fall of Lucifer, David and Goliath, the Exodus, the Plague of Egypt, the Virgin Birth, the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus' Miracles, Judas' Betrayal, the Crucifiction and Resurrection. My best friend used to be from a very religious family. He is now a Calvinist priest. We are still friends, but living in different countries for so many years makes it a more long distant relationship.

I'm an atheist because I'm not a trusting person. I am not a strong authoritarian. I have an even temperament and a good self-estime. I venerate no one. I don't value might or power very highly. I have a good sense of the scope of human life and history thanks to my studies and passions. I require solid independantly verifiable proofs to believe in important things.

(05-04-2019, 01:03 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a choice. I couldn't believe any religion if you held a gun to my head. 

If by religion you mean organized religion, neither could I. 

(05-04-2019, 01:03 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]There are all these religions in the world, and people all firmly believe the stories they have been raised on are the only right ones, that they are the chosen ones. 


For me, the indoctrination just never took. I stopped going to church when I was 10.

I would never step foot in a church. Even at 5 I would have to be dragged kicking and screaming.

How many threads has this spammer started in the last week ?
6 ? 7 ?
Ban him.

It's very obvious it's driving him nuts that NO ONE agrees with the BS he writes, no matter how many threads or tries he attempts.

So this is your thing then?

Quote:The many different conceptions of God, and competing claims as to God's characteristics, aims, and actions, have led to the development of ideas of omnitheism, pandeism,[16] or a perennial philosophy, which postulates that there is one underlying theological truth, of which all religions express a partial understanding, and as to which "the devout in the various great world religions are in fact worshipping that one God, but through different, overlapping concepts".[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

(05-04-2019, 01:18 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]So this is your thing then?

Quote:The many different conceptions of God, and competing claims as to God's characteristics, aims, and actions, have led to the development of ideas of omnitheism, pandeism,[16] or a perennial philosophy, which postulates that there is one underlying theological truth, of which all religions express a partial understanding, and as to which "the devout in the various great world religions are in fact worshipping that one God, but through different, overlapping concepts".[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Me?! No.

The first sentence in the Wikipedia article sums it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism And that with some reluctance because I don't think a god necessarily has to exist.

Henotheism (from Greek ἑνός θεός (henos theos), meaning 'one god') is the worship of a single god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other deities.[1][2]

(05-04-2019, 01:23 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2019, 01:18 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]So this is your thing then?

Quote:The many different conceptions of God, and competing claims as to God's characteristics, aims, and actions, have led to the development of ideas of omnitheism, pandeism,[16] or a perennial philosophy, which postulates that there is one underlying theological truth, of which all religions express a partial understanding, and as to which "the devout in the various great world religions are in fact worshipping that one God, but through different, overlapping concepts".[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Me?! No.

The first sentence in the Wikipedia article sums it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism And that with some reluctance because I don't think a god necessarily has to exist.

Henotheism (from Greek ἑνός θεός (henos theos), meaning 'one god') is the worship of a single god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other deities.[1][2]

So why not atheism?

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ].
The majority of people I know are atheist, at least in their beliefs. Somehow I don't think that they are the same caliber as the atheists I've seen on all of those dead forums. The atheists I know in the real world don't want to discuss it. They don't act as if they are a part of the collective. 

It's almost like people act differently in real life than they do online. 

Maybe because there are real and certain repercussions for behavior in real life that don't apply online where anonymity provides safety from those who oppose certain popular ideologies, which in the case of an atheist (especially in the good old US of A) can be quite harsh. 

I'm sure all of the atheists that you know in real life act exactly the same online as they do in front of you, especially given the fact that you are so understanding of human nature and whatnot.

I was not exposed and indoctrinated to the bible. I could read anything I wanted, but was more interested in the encyclopedia, dictionary, and topics including science and nature. When my neighbor tried to get me to attend, I was unimpressed.

(05-04-2019, 01:23 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2019, 01:18 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]So this is your thing then?

Quote:The many different conceptions of God, and competing claims as to God's characteristics, aims, and actions, have led to the development of ideas of omnitheism, pandeism,[16] or a perennial philosophy, which postulates that there is one underlying theological truth, of which all religions express a partial understanding, and as to which "the devout in the various great world religions are in fact worshipping that one God, but through different, overlapping concepts".[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Me?! No.

The first sentence in the Wikipedia article sums it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism And that with some reluctance because I don't think a god necessarily has to exist.

Henotheism (from Greek ἑνός θεός (henos theos), meaning 'one god') is the worship of a single god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other deities.[1][2]

So you are at least agnostic as regards the christian God?

Do you have a God you worship?

I would posit you are actually an agnostic atheist  .....

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]Why atheism?

Because I was intelligent enough to see the programming and indoctrination for what it was, at age 13. 

I see that you're spouting the JW propaganda again. Of course no "organized religion", no "church" and "henotheism". It's like an involuntary reaction with you.

(05-04-2019, 02:20 AM)brewerb Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]Why atheism?

Because I was intelligent enough to see the programming and indoctrination for what it was, at age 13. 

I see that you're spouting the JW propaganda again. Of course no "organized religion", no "church" and "henotheism". It's like an involuntary reaction with you.

Oh, I didn't know that was a JW thing.

Without reading the other replies, I suspect they will say something similar: Because I believe it to be true. I could be wrong, but I can't not-believe it.

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]From my admittedly brief observation of atheists online I can see them roaring into town in a beat up SUV with atheist bumper stickers pasted all over the vehicle, hanging out of the windows, hollering, guns shooting into the air, looking for the local church and courthouse to make absolutely certain that never the twain shall meet. 

Personally I don't have any bumper stickers. I think they're pretty obnoxious. Also no idea where you get the image of atheists "shooting guns into the air", that's a thing conservative Christians do. 

If you understood more about atheists you'd know their opinions are fairly divided on political matters, including guns. And yes, Church and state ought to remain separate. That's built into the foundation of U.S. government. You can read the founders' own words on the subject. In fact the U.S. was never even founded on Christianity. Deal with it.

But anyway, I'm an atheist because there's nothing that suggests whatsoever that this Universe was in any way meant for us, and everything suggests the belief that we were created by some divine, perfect being is pure delusion.

(05-04-2019, 01:13 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2019, 01:03 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a choice. I couldn't believe any religion if you held a gun to my head. 

If by religion you mean organized religion, neither could I. 

(05-04-2019, 01:03 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]There are all these religions in the world, and people all firmly believe the stories they have been raised on are the only right ones, that they are the chosen ones. 


For me, the indoctrination just never took. I stopped going to church when I was 10.

I would never step foot in a church. Even at 5 I would have to be dragged kicking and screaming.

Non organized religion is also a bunch of hooey.   No religion, organized or not, has provided evidence of a god. No theist has ever proven a god exists.

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]Why atheism?

Religious faith is a failed epistemology that I followed quite assiduously for three decades, but in the end it failed to either explain or predict lived experience. And I don't like surprises.

Not only was my faith of origin wrong, but it was generally 180 degrees wrong. And I don't like being wrong.

Finally religion generally has one or more deities on offer, in the form of invisible supernatural beings, and generally some form of supernatural afterlife. These are non-falsifiable and therefore irrelevant.

I think this is a fair assessment of all religious faiths. I have not really found an exception, although I give Buddhism an A for effort in some ways.

So Ima Believer is now saying Ima Nota Believer ?
Goodness.

I think there are meds for that.

(05-04-2019, 02:20 AM)brewerb Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]Why atheism?

I see that you're spouting the JW propaganda again.   

  on jehovahs witness and gays  ...

I didn’t teach my kid to believe in the Easter bunny, tooth fairy, or Santa Claus.  I don’t personally think of them as innocuous.   

IRL, I never proselytize for atheism.  Unlike the large numbers of religious people who seem compelled to proselytize to me.  I think proselytizing is horrible, maybe because I had to do so much of it as a child.  I participate in an online community of atheists for the same reasons that I’m in online communities for special needs parents, musicians, etc.—because it’s great to be able to connect with these communities.  You don’t want to have an extended conversations about the pros and cons of various fingerings of high G in Beethoven 8, or how to prepare for an IEP meeting, and neither do my neighbors, but my online friends do.   

Why choose atheism?  I already explained my thought processes to you in a different thread:  god is either too abstract to require worship or too loathsome to merit it, or, of course, nonexistent.  In any event, god isn’t for me.  

I have never regretted that decision to live as an atheist.  I’m sad that you are enmired in such a dismal religious swamp.  I hope eventually you’ll be able to think your way clear.  Or that you find some kind of peace, as you do seem to be protesting an awful lot.

(05-04-2019, 01:46 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]So why not atheism?

From my perspective it's completely logical. The definition is illogical but the position isn't. For me personally? I'm leaning to theism. Specifically henotheism. It's all about the Bible.

(05-04-2019, 01:03 AM)Dom Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a choice. I couldn't believe any religion if you held a gun to my head.

This is where I'm coming from too.  I just don't find religious claims believable.  Never have.  You can scream at the top of your lungs that if I don't accept (fill in the blank) I'm going to face unimaginable pain, but that won't change the fact that I don't believe.

(05-04-2019, 12:46 AM)Ima Believer Wrote: [ -> ]Why atheism?

Because of Robert Green Ingersoll.