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The Dust of Fame
#1

The Dust of Fame
Virtually my entire class of 20 aviation mechanic students had never heard of Charles Lindbergh.  Average student age:  mid 20s.  It got me wondering.  So, a quick survey:

Are 5 or more of these names people you recognize:  Oroville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, Jimmy Doolittle, Wiley Post, Amelia Earhart, Jacqueline Cochran, Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Paul Mantz, Richard Bong, Clyde Cessna, Burt Rutan, Jeanna Yeager?

Are 5 or more of these names ones you recognize:  Enola Gay, Spirit of St. Louis, The Ruptured Duck, Voyager, Gee Bee, China Clipper, The Phoenix, Memphis Belle, Rare Bear, Challenger?

No fair jumping into Google before answering - how many of these are at the top of your memory?
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#2

The Dust of Fame
Seven in the first list, four in the second.
[Image: giant%20meteor%202020.jpg]
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#3

The Dust of Fame
7
7
R.I.P. Hannes
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#4

The Dust of Fame
7 in the first and 5 in the second.
By chance do you know this movie since it seems you like a lot aviation history?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wind_Rises
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#5

The Dust of Fame
Seven in the first list, nine in the second.
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#6

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 06:03 AM)airportkid Wrote: Virtually my entire class of 20 aviation mechanic students had never heard of Charles Lindbergh.  Average student age:  mid 20s.  It got me wondering.  So, a quick survey:

Are 5 or more of these names people you recognize:  Oroville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, Jimmy Doolittle, Wiley Post, Amelia Earhart, Jacqueline Cochran, Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Paul Mantz, Richard Bong, Clyde Cessna, Burt Rutan, Jeanna Yeager?

Are 5 or more of these names ones you recognize:  Enola Gay, Spirit of St. Louis, The Ruptured Duck, Voyager, Gee Bee, China Clipper, The Phoenix, Memphis Belle, Rare Bear, Challenger?

No fair jumping into Google before answering - how many of these are at the top of your memory?
I'm a historian by profession.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#7

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 10:09 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I'm a historian by profession.

Fantastic,which specialization? I have a large collection of books regarding history in my library. I enjoy very much history of economics and history of  technology.
Especialy I am intrigued by inventions that triggered unforeseen events, such as the development of american west when barbed wire was invented
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#8

The Dust of Fame
My specialization is WWII, with focus on the US entry, and on the end of the war with Japan. My Ph.D. thesis would have been "Analysis of US Interpretation of Pre-War Japanese 'MAGIC' Messages with a Consideration of Selection of Aggressive Language Over Lesser Options."
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#9

The Dust of Fame
Great, I lived for 15 years side to the Hürtgen forest and I got involved in studying in detail what happened there, the Aachener battle etc etc. And I lso lived in a part of the city (Aachen) with huge WW2 bunkers, tey were impressive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_...gen_Forest

I always mock my japanese friends (i have many, my graduated school was part of a scientific cooperation Germany-Japan) telling them that luckyly they got nuked at the end of the war so few people really looked in what they did in WW2 especially with their unit 731 etc etc
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#10

The Dust of Fame
Yeah, they do love to play the pity card. It was downright hazardous to be part of the Pacific War Research Society. When I was stationed in Japan in 1982 a woman was added to the roles of the "victims of the atomic bombs". She was in her 80s and died of cancer. Evidently cancer can have only one cause if it's politically useful.

I did like working with Japanese researchers, they were, to a person, meticulous and kept me on my toes.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#11

The Dust of Fame
My experiences in working with japaneses are great: technically good, intelligent, smart. Just lacking a bit of social competences but hey, I know people from al over the world and I am convinced the japanese people have been dropped on their islands by some alien cultre, they are so different from us I cannot believe we share same biological roots (half joking, I know their history very well and a couple of things or more about their culture).

We had a very nice graduated school with people from all over the wrld, from black Africa to south america, canadians, koreans, chineses, indonesians india pakistan etc etc. Japaneses were, in the eyes of everybody else, the weirdest one. One of the funniest moment was when a male PhD student arrived from Japan and was putted on the bench between me and a fellow mexican PhD. The mexican guy was the real stereotype of mexican macho and the japanese arrived with a hello kitty tshirt and a pink stopwatch of hello kitty. The mexican guy thought he was gay and you know how mexicans and gay can go along... It took me a while to convince him that hello kitty is a normal character admired also by grown up males in japan...

Anyway the mexican guy was very funny and he taught us a lot about rooster fight and mexican lucha libre (I w´still have a couole of masks he brought me back from mexico that I use when I wrestle with my daughters). He was inquiring in which other country in the planet you can have roster fight and when discivered it was common in pakistan in the mountains with Afghanistan among Pashtun people he wanted to travel there to learn the secret of pashtun roster training...
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#12

The Dust of Fame
My husband teaches high school theatre classes and is amazed at the ignorance and lack of history kids have.  It's not super historical but most of his students haven't heard of Charlie Chaplin.  Some of them confuse WW I with WW II and visa-versa.  He teaches Shakespeare and has to teach them who Elizabeth the First was.  Most of the students know who the Beatles were/are but few have heard of the Rolling Stones. Fred Astaire?  Who's he?  They're fuzzy on the Holocaust.  

But because his theatre class takes the students from Ancient Greek theatre to modern theatre they get history along with it.   When I was a theatre student I learned more about history in the theatre history, costume design and set design classes than I did in the regular history classes I took.
                                                         T4618
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#13

The Dust of Fame
9 definitely and 2 vaguely in group A

6 definitely and 1 vaguely in group B
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#14

The Dust of Fame
<sigh>

Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#15

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 02:43 PM)Minimalist Wrote: <sigh>

OMG! That's hysterical.   My kids saw an old fashion typewriter and were fascinated by it.  They loved the little bell sound at the end.   A friend of ours has a little girl about 6 years old who saw a typewriter on TV and wanted one for Christmas.  My husband went down to the prop department at the theatre and got her one.  He's letting the little girl borrow it until it might be needed.... or until she gets sick and tired of it and moves on to another toy.
                                                         T4618
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#16

The Dust of Fame
R.I.P. Hannes
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#17

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 06:03 AM)airportkid Wrote: Virtually my entire class of 20 aviation mechanic students had never heard of Charles Lindbergh.  Average student age:  mid 20s.  It got me wondering.  So, a quick survey:

Are 5 or more of these names people you recognize:  Oroville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, Jimmy Doolittle, Wiley Post, Amelia Earhart, Jacqueline Cochran, Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Paul Mantz, Richard Bong, Clyde Cessna, Burt Rutan, Jeanna Yeager?

Are 5 or more of these names ones you recognize:  Enola Gay, Spirit of St. Louis, The Ruptured Duck, Voyager, Gee Bee, China Clipper, The Phoenix, Memphis Belle, Rare Bear, Challenger?

No fair jumping into Google before answering - how many of these are at the top of your memory?

6 on the 1st & 5 on the second.
_____________________________________________________

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#18

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 03:03 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: OMG! That's hysterical.   My kids saw an old fashion typewriter and were fascinated by it.  They loved the little bell sound at the end.   A friend of ours has a little girl about 6 years old who saw a typewriter on TV and wanted one for Christmas.  My husband went down to the prop department at the theatre and got her one.  He's letting the little girl borrow it until it might be needed.... or until she gets sick and tired of it and moves on to another toy.

I think there is a software for PC that mimic the sound of typewriter when you type on your keyboard
DOes anybody have the link to it?
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#19

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 06:03 AM)airportkid Wrote: Are 5 or more of these names people you recognize:  Orville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, Jimmy Doolittle, Wiley Post, Amelia Earhart, Jacqueline Cochran, Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Paul Mantz, Richard Bong, Clyde Cessna, Burt Rutan, Jeanna Yeager?

Are 5 or more of these names ones you recognize:  Enola Gay, Spirit of St. Louis, The Ruptured Duck, Voyager, Gee Bee, China Clipper, The Phoenix, Memphis Belle, Rare Bear, Challenger?

Me?    Bolded above.

I would note however that your test is somewhat skewed in favour of Americans and aircraft historians.         Consider

So... how many Americans would recognise/remember names off these lists?

Aussie aviators— Charles Kingsford Smith; Amy Johnson;  Bert Hinkler;  Freda Thompson;  Keith and Ross Smith;  
Henry Talbot Hammond;  Charles Ulm;  Dick Smith;  John Duigan;  Hudson Fysh.

Aussie-built planes that saw service —Wirraway;  Jindivik;  Wackett;  Nomad;  Winjeel;  Gannet;  Jabiru;  Sabre;  Boomerang.

—And again... NO checking Google!


Footnote:  When I was a kid, there were literally dozens of these beautiful little planes in the air every day.

[Image: 24460dd950ac09b30e2baf1bc814c383.jpg]

Note the "VH" marking.  As Australia didn't have a seat on the International Commission
for Air Navigation (ICAN) it was allocated random letters and was arbitrarily allocated VH,
so the British Empire G-AUEH became VH-AEH, dropping the prefix and first letter of its
original code.  The roundel on this plane is pre-second World War, the inner red circle now
being replaced with a red kangaroo facing left.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#20

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 04:16 PM)SYZ Wrote: [Image: 24460dd950ac09b30e2baf1bc814c383.jpg]

Note the "VH" marking.  As Australia didn't have a seat on the International Commission
for Air Navigation (ICAN) it was allocated random letters and was arbitrarily allocated VH,
so the British Empire G-AUEH became VH-AEH, dropping the prefix and first letter of its
original code.  The roundel on this plane is pre-second World War, the inner red circle now
being replaced with a red kangaroo facing left.

Good old times...
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#21

The Dust of Fame
(07-27-2020, 06:03 AM)airportkid Wrote: Virtually my entire class of 20 aviation mechanic students had never heard of Charles Lindbergh.  Average student age:  mid 20s.  It got me wondering.  So, a quick survey:

Are 5 or more of these names people you recognize:  Oroville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, Jimmy Doolittle, Wiley Post, Amelia Earhart, Jacqueline Cochran, Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Paul Mantz, Richard Bong, Clyde Cessna, Burt Rutan, Jeanna Yeager?

Are 5 or more of these names ones you recognize:  Enola Gay, Spirit of St. Louis, The Ruptured Duck, Voyager, Gee Bee, China Clipper, The Phoenix, Memphis Belle, Rare Bear, Challenger?

No fair jumping into Google before answering - how many of these are at the top of your memory?

Seven from the first list, five from the second.

Typical twenty-first century students, and I'm talking from years of dismal and deeply depressing experience, tend to know sweet-eff-all about nothing whatsoever. Erudite people who are interested in the world and have acquired a stock of general knowledge are rare in any age group. Among today's young, they're statistically speaking non-existent.
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#22

The Dust of Fame
Oh, and I got them all except Paul Mantz.
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#23

The Dust of Fame
(07-28-2020, 04:22 PM)Antipholus Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 06:03 AM)airportkid Wrote: Virtually my entire class of 20 aviation mechanic students had never heard of Charles Lindbergh.  Average student age:  mid 20s.  It got me wondering.  So, a quick survey:

Are 5 or more of these names people you recognize:  Oroville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, Jimmy Doolittle, Wiley Post, Amelia Earhart, Jacqueline Cochran, Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Paul Mantz, Richard Bong, Clyde Cessna, Burt Rutan, Jeanna Yeager?

Are 5 or more of these names ones you recognize:  Enola Gay, Spirit of St. Louis, The Ruptured Duck, Voyager, Gee Bee, China Clipper, The Phoenix, Memphis Belle, Rare Bear, Challenger?

No fair jumping into Google before answering - how many of these are at the top of your memory?

Seven from the first list, five from the second.

Typical twenty-first century students, and I'm talking from years of dismal and deeply depressing experience, tend to know sweet-eff-all about nothing whatsoever. Erudite people who are interested in the world and have acquired a stock of general knowledge are rare in any age group. Among today's young, they're statistically speaking non-existent.

Youth sure was smarter back in your day, Socrates.  Angel

You have some evidence beyond anecdotes? Cause as far as see (and I see it daily, whether it is praise for fascists, conviction that covid is Jews/masons/cyclist plot or that LGBT people are communism second coming) it is mostly old people who not only don't know shit but believe even most outrageous propaganda. I did meet dumb students but all in all years spent on University were years when I was surrounded by biggest group of smart people.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#24

The Dust of Fame
(07-28-2020, 04:30 PM)Szuchow Wrote:
(07-28-2020, 04:22 PM)Antipholus Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 06:03 AM)airportkid Wrote: Virtually my entire class of 20 aviation mechanic students had never heard of Charles Lindbergh.  Average student age:  mid 20s.  It got me wondering.  So, a quick survey:

Are 5 or more of these names people you recognize:  Oroville Wright, Charles Lindbergh, Jimmy Doolittle, Wiley Post, Amelia Earhart, Jacqueline Cochran, Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Paul Mantz, Richard Bong, Clyde Cessna, Burt Rutan, Jeanna Yeager?

Are 5 or more of these names ones you recognize:  Enola Gay, Spirit of St. Louis, The Ruptured Duck, Voyager, Gee Bee, China Clipper, The Phoenix, Memphis Belle, Rare Bear, Challenger?

No fair jumping into Google before answering - how many of these are at the top of your memory?

Seven from the first list, five from the second.

Typical twenty-first century students, and I'm talking from years of dismal and deeply depressing experience, tend to know sweet-eff-all about nothing whatsoever. Erudite people who are interested in the world and have acquired a stock of general knowledge are rare in any age group. Among today's young, they're statistically speaking non-existent.

Youth sure was smarter back in your day, Socrates.  Angel

You have some evidence beyond anecdotes? Cause as far as see (and I see it daily, whether it is praise for fascists, conviction that covid is Jews/masons/cyclist plot or that LGBT people are communism second coming) it is mostly old people who not only don't know shit but believe even most outrageous propaganda. I did meet dumb students but all in all years spent on University were years when I was surrounded by biggest group of smart people.

The average person in the US never made it to Uni. And teaching curriculums in grade school and high school are horrible anymore. Less and less is expected...
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#25

The Dust of Fame
In the sixties US schools were happy if you weren't arrested on school grounds and/or didn't go into labor in study hall.
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