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OM and The Big Bang
#26

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 10:18 PM)Reltzik Wrote: Here's another one from UW:

https://soundcloud.com/uwnews/bigbangsound100

Doesn't sound like an Om to me.

That there could be some fairly straightforward way of mapping the CBR to audio that sounds like an Om doesn't surprise me, because an Om is a very basic sound, mostly a continuous hum with little change throughout. 

To cite this as a connection between the yogi and the creation of the universe is no more significant than, say, taking a basic shape like two lines crossing, ascribing religious significance to it, and then declaring it miraculous whenever you find something that looks roughly like that in nature, or in the rubble of a natural disaster, or in our DNA, or...

.... crap, people do that too, don't they?

I think UW is the one from physicist John Cramer.  Thanks for posting Smile
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#27

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 10:18 PM)Reltzik Wrote: Here's another one from UW:

https://soundcloud.com/uwnews/bigbangsound100

Doesn't sound like an Om to me.

Me either, but the article (and the link to the other sound files) was awesome.

I used to practice meditation, including the OM/AUM, in the deepest register I could manage comfortably; it was a handy tool for getting my mind into a state where I could relax my thoughts more easily.  Learning Tibetan/Tuvan/Buddhist throat singing is even more effective -- it is kind of mindblowing the first time you succeed at generating the overtones.  Feels like getting a massage from the inside out.

It's got sod-all to do with the Big Bang, but it is a useful meditation technique.
"Aliens?  Us?  Is this one of your Earth jokes?"  -- Kro-Bar, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
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#28

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 06:51 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I did not know that an OM-like humming sound is the sound of the BB and the universe, so I have learned something new today.  No doubt a coincidence regarding chanting.  Maybe OM is just the simplest most mind-soothing sound.

White noise, which is soothing enough to be used to help people afflicted with tinnitus sleep, sounds a lot like both atonal humming, and the static we hear from the BB.

I get the same soothe from listening to waves crashing on the beach, with the added benefit of random intervals of silence.

Also, just wanted to say that I'm not feeling preached-at, so whatever.
Freedom isn't free.
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#29

OM and The Big Bang
A few points:

The CMB is not the Big Bang. It is the radiation of last scattering, which occurred some 380,000 years after the Big Bang, when the universe had cooled to a temperature slightly above the boiling point of iron. Prior to this all hydrogen was ionized and light couldn't get more than a few dozen light years without being deflected by an ion. When the universe finally cooled enough that neutral hydrogen atoms could form the light was finally able to travel through space without it acting like an enormous fog bank and the CMB was produced.

The CMB cannot be perceived directly by humans in any way known. It has a temperature of 2.73 K, corresponding to an energy of 0.235 millielectron-volts. At a frequency of 160 gigahertz it is so far outside the auditory range of any living organism as to be laughable. What you are hearing in the audio files that several people have provided is what the CMB would sound like if we could here it. These reconstructions deliberately shift the CMB down to a range where you can hear it, proving an unsuprising fact: Ancient yogis had the same auditory range as everybody else.
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#30

OM and The Big Bang
(07-21-2020, 01:44 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: A few points:

The CMB is not the Big Bang. It is the radiation of last scattering, which occurred some 380,000 years after the Big Bang, when the universe had cooled to a temperature slightly above the boiling point of iron. Prior to this all hydrogen was ionized and light couldn't get more than a few dozen light years without being deflected by an ion. When the universe finally cooled enough that neutral hydrogen atoms could form the light was finally able to travel through space without it acting like an enormous fog bank and the CMB was produced.

The CMB cannot be perceived directly by humans in any way known. It has a temperature of 2.73 K, corresponding to an energy of 0.235 millielectron-volts. At a frequency of 160 gigahertz it is so far outside the auditory range of any living organism as to be laughable. What you are hearing in the audio files that several people have provided is what the CMB would sound like if we could here it. These reconstructions deliberately shift the CMB down to a range where you can hear it, proving an unsuprising fact: Ancient yogis had the same auditory range as everybody else.

I always love your posts!
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#31

OM and The Big Bang
(07-21-2020, 01:44 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 06:51 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I did not know that an OM-like humming sound is the sound of the BB and the universe, so I have learned something new today.  No doubt a coincidence regarding chanting.  Maybe OM is just the simplest most mind-soothing sound.

White noise, which is soothing enough to be used to help people afflicted with tinnitus sleep, sounds a lot like both atonal humming, and the static we hear from the BB.

I get the same soothe from listening to waves crashing on the beach, with the added benefit of random intervals of silence.

Also, just wanted to say that I'm not feeling preached-at, so whatever.

I’m glad  Smile
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#32

OM and The Big Bang
Ms Bcat, do I have a bounced PM?  Huh
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#33

OM and The Big Bang
(07-21-2020, 01:52 AM)Fireball Wrote: Ms Bcat, do I have a bounced PM?  Huh

I don’t think so, I replied to yours...but I’ll check Smile
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#34

OM and The Big Bang
OM + BB = BS Winking
R.I.P. Hannes
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#35

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 10:06 PM)Bcat Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 09:51 PM)Chimp3 Wrote: The human ear can not detect the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation. Any one that says they can is delusional and/or full of shit.

You're right, the human ear can't hear it, but there was an audio recreation compiled by a physicist and that's what my friend was referring to.

If the yogi's could not hear it then they had no way of knowing about it.
One thing you never see: A guy in Boston Mass. with a Union flag yelling "The Nawth's gonna rise again!"
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#36

OM and The Big Bang
We hear parts of the Universe vibrating all the time. We even make some of those parts; we call them musical instruments, and we make them vibrate at our favorite resonant frequencies.

It's not a big leap of logic for some guy in India, thousands of years ago, to posit that the entire universe was vibrating. Maybe there's one who thought it was a musical instrument too? Just because we cannot physically hear CBR doesn't mean we cannot analogize what we can hear. I could see mystical folk creating "om" as a way to verbalize the idea.
Freedom isn't free.
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#37

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 08:21 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: I simply cannot meditate.  My brain is always whirling round. When I'm in a yoga class and we're supposed to be meditating and doing the OM thing I'm thinking about dozens of other things.   I've tried to do the OM sound and it lasts about one breath and then I'm OFF!  I'm chasing thoughts, fixing the world's problems or doing a slight toe tap or body sway to the yoga music in the background.  OM isn't my thing.

I hear ya. I have ADD (ADHD-PI, as it's called now). My brain switches topics 20 times per minute. No exaggeration, mindfulness has allowed me to see just how crazy it is in my head. Just zero organization. Makes life annoying and difficult sometimes.

I don't practice yoga, but I do meditation when I can. Usually in the mornings to try and put my mind on the right track for the day. The thing is, the goal isn't to stomp out all thoughts and not think anything. That's an unreasonable request of your consciousness when you never really meditated before. Don't try to control your thoughts, don't be fierce and harsh towards the mind when it inevitably wanders. Be kind, be gentle, letting things be. And letting things be means not following, not rejecting, just knowing whatever is happening right now and being mindful of your breath, your thoughts and your surroundings. It's just sitting, with no ulterior motive. As the saying goes: "Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone."

The main thing is that, when you're meditating and your mind wanders, that you don't attach yourself to the thoughts. Since you are not your thoughts, it's possible to have thoughts and yet not pursue them. Let them occur, but don't go any deeper than the thought you've just heard. Eventually your thoughts can be dismissed the same way you might be able to ignore external sounds. It's pretty cool actually.
[Image: nL4L1haz_Qo04rZMFtdpyd1OZgZf9NSnR9-7hAWT...dc2a24480e]

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#38

OM and The Big Bang
(07-21-2020, 01:28 PM)Chimp3 Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 10:06 PM)Bcat Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 09:51 PM)Chimp3 Wrote: The human ear can not detect the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation. Any one that says they can is delusional and/or full of shit.

You're right, the human ear can't hear it, but there was an audio recreation compiled by a physicist and that's what my friend was referring to.

If the yogi's could not hear it then they had no way of knowing about it.

In some theist's mind, they believe certain individual's have a link to the divine--especially during meditaton.  Therefore, the divine informed them is their standpoint.
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#39

OM and The Big Bang
(07-21-2020, 02:13 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: We hear parts of the Universe vibrating all the time. We even make some of those parts; we call them musical instruments, and we make them vibrate at our favorite resonant frequencies.

It's not a big leap of logic for some guy in India, thousands of years ago, to posit that the entire universe was vibrating. Maybe there's one who thought it was a musical instrument too? Just because we cannot physically hear CBR doesn't mean we cannot analogize what we can hear. I could see mystical folk creating "om" as a way to verbalize the idea.

That's what I was tryng to say in an earlier post, but you said it much more succinctly  Smile

...Also, stop preaching at me  Tongue
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#40

OM and The Big Bang
Dunno... to me the sounds of the universe don't sound anything like ommmmmmmmm.

Om or Aum is a sacred sound and a spiritual symbol in Indian religions.
It signifies the essence of the ultimate reality, consciousness or Atman.
More broadly, it is a syllable that is chanted either independently or before
a spiritual recitation in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#41

OM and The Big Bang
(07-21-2020, 04:59 PM)SYZ Wrote: Dunno... to me the sounds of the universe don't sound anything like ommmmmmmmm.

Om or Aum is a sacred sound and a spiritual symbol in Indian religions.
It signifies the essence of the ultimate reality, consciousness or Atman.
More broadly, it is a syllable that is chanted either independently or before
a spiritual recitation in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism.

Like in all religions, it's cherrypicked as well.  The OM is in a creation story--it's a sound that happens prior to creation in the creation story.  However, those who choose to say well, this proves divinity or "extra humanly knowledge" don't reference the rest of the story which includes a lotus being split into three parts to create the earth, sky, and heavens.
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#42

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 05:35 PM)Bcat Wrote: As many of you know I practice yoga and as such have a lot of friends in the yoga community. One of my friends mentioned she thought it was amazing how the ancient yogis knew the exact sound of the universe (OM). OM is a common chant that many use in yoga and it is often referred to as the sound of the universe or the universe’s sound as it was coming into existence. There is also a creation story about an initial humming of the universe that occurred before the act of creation (by a creator god).  When OM is chanted it sounds like a deep hum.  My friend then referenced that this was similar to the humming noise science has found associated with the Big Bang (from cosmic microwave background radiation).  You can listen to both sounds online (OM being chanted and the hum from the Big Bang) and both sound remarkably similar. So...did the ancient yogis know about this humming sound prior to it being discovered by Wilson and Penzias? Or is it a coincidence? 

Anyway, even though I am an atheist, I thought this was an interesting discussion on a theist point of view. So...

Discuss  Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Humans are eager pattern-matchers. All the similarity means is that they happen to be similar (for some given value of "similar"). But leave it to people to say, "Coincidence? I think not!".

The "sound" of the Big Bang itself is contrived from background radiation played back at a certain speed and so is not really any sort of sound in the conventional sense, anyway. Remember: in space, no one can hear you hum.
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#43

OM and The Big Bang
(07-21-2020, 04:32 PM)Bcat Wrote:
(07-21-2020, 01:28 PM)Chimp3 Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 10:06 PM)Bcat Wrote: You're right, the human ear can't hear it, but there was an audio recreation compiled by a physicist and that's what my friend was referring to.

If the yogi's could not hear it then they had no way of knowing about it.

In some theist's mind, they believe certain individual's have a link to the divine--especially during meditaton.  Therefore, the divine informed them is their standpoint.

Yah I know. I have chanted OM many times and the only real vibration was the one I felt from my top palette into my skull.
One thing you never see: A guy in Boston Mass. with a Union flag yelling "The Nawth's gonna rise again!"
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#44

OM and The Big Bang
(07-22-2020, 09:11 PM)Chimp3 Wrote:
(07-21-2020, 04:32 PM)Bcat Wrote:
(07-21-2020, 01:28 PM)Chimp3 Wrote: If the yogi's could not hear it then they had no way of knowing about it.

In some theist's mind, they believe certain individual's have a link to the divine--especially during meditaton.  Therefore, the divine informed them is their standpoint.

Yah I know. I have chanted OM many times and the only real vibration was the one I felt from my top palette into my skull.

Onomatopoeia at work.
Freedom isn't free.
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#45

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 10:13 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 10:03 PM)Bcat Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 09:39 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: And you're hoping that will convince people, ersatz evidence in the flesh.

I'm not hoping it will convince anyone of anything which is why I mentioned several times in my post that this was *solely my opinion.*  They were just *my thoughts* on how the word OM *may* have come to be chosen as the sound of the universe by ancient people.  I posted this thread as a discussion thread and like all discussions on any subject, individual opinions are always welcome as long as they are stated as such.  I'm sorry if you felt I was trying to "convince" anyone of anything, it certainly was not my intent.
You are campaigning. Don't bullshit us.

Speak for yourself.  Atheists like any other humans can muse about the mysterious, the sublime, and the weird.  I don't think we're losing Jenny to a religious cult any time soon.
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#46

OM and The Big Bang
(07-20-2020, 07:19 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: I think the basic sounds from the BB is more like "Dumbbbbbbbbbbbbb!".


The Universe is trying to tell us something.  Consider
Rogue black hole 2020
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#47

OM and The Big Bang
(07-23-2020, 02:57 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 07:19 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: I think the basic sounds from the BB is more like "Dumbbbbbbbbbbbbb!".


The Universe is trying to tell us something.  Consider

Sounds like an industrial ventilation fan -- is the universe trying to tell us that we blow?
"Aliens?  Us?  Is this one of your Earth jokes?"  -- Kro-Bar, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
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#48

OM and The Big Bang
(07-23-2020, 03:39 AM)trdsf Wrote:
(07-23-2020, 02:57 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 07:19 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: I think the basic sounds from the BB is more like "Dumbbbbbbbbbbbbb!".


The Universe is trying to tell us something.  Consider

Sounds like an industrial ventilation fan -- is the universe trying to tell us that we blow?

Perhaps the Universe is a byproduct of a really really big industrial ventilation fan.
Rogue black hole 2020
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#49

OM and The Big Bang
(07-23-2020, 12:50 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 10:13 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 10:03 PM)Bcat Wrote: I'm not hoping it will convince anyone of anything which is why I mentioned several times in my post that this was *solely my opinion.*  They were just *my thoughts* on how the word OM *may* have come to be chosen as the sound of the universe by ancient people.  I posted this thread as a discussion thread and like all discussions on any subject, individual opinions are always welcome as long as they are stated as such.  I'm sorry if you felt I was trying to "convince" anyone of anything, it certainly was not my intent.
You are campaigning. Don't bullshit us.

Speak for yourself.  Atheists like any other humans can muse about the mysterious, the sublime, and the weird.  I don't think we're losing Jenny to a religious cult any time soon.

Yeah not giving up my atheist card  Smile I always find the most interesting conversations are those that are a mixture of opinion and fact.  I have a lot of friends (you included Heart ) on here that I've known for years via various forms of the forum. Several reached out to me via pm and on here to let me know they completely understood that one section of my post was just my opinion and they never took it any other way.  Heart Very sweet and thank you to all  Hug
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#50

OM and The Big Bang
(07-23-2020, 12:33 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Onomatopoeia at work.
*googles frantically* ...... Thumbs Up
R.I.P. Hannes
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