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Name that *nix!
#26

Name that *nix!
my background is not typical, as I have only installed a desktop manager 3 times in 20 plus years and only used 1 for any length of time. I plan on using the new server gui eventually, but not yet. I built headless servers and my only graphical connections to them are web based apps, if any.
It's all CLI for me. For that reason I make recommendations based on how the package management works, how easy the base install is, things like that.
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#27

Name that *nix!
(06-07-2020, 04:22 PM)skyking Wrote: my background is not typical, as I have only installed a desktop manager 3 times in 20 plus years and only used 1 for any length of time. I plan on using the new server gui eventually, but not yet. I built headless servers and my only graphical connections to them are web based apps, if any.
It's all CLI for me. For that reason I make recommendations based on how the package management works, how easy the base install is, things like that.

Well, given what CC says, it's looking like it's narrowing in on Debian / Devuan, or something with Debian underneath, like Ubuntu. Debian package management is top-notch, and if I can use ZFS and maintain the same skillset with both my file server and this combo server / desktop, that seems the way to go. Given my general preference for Debian, I'll probably sacrifice whatever benefits I might get from a fork of Debian like Ubuntu for package management and release stability.

(Don't quote me on this, but atm, I'm thinking stock Debian with some Ubuntu packages installed on the workstation I'm putting together.)


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#28

Name that *nix!
yup I think that is as workable as any. Myself I would just go ubuntu in your case because it has such a robust community, and the nuts and bolts in the back end are also supported by the vast debian community as well.
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#29

Name that *nix!
(06-07-2020, 04:56 PM)skyking Wrote: yup I think that is as workable as any. Myself I would just go ubuntu in your case because it has such a robust community, and the nuts and bolts in the back end are also supported by the vast debian community as well.

That's a good point. I have a rather irrational fondness for Debian and stability which is biasing my judgement.
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#30

Name that *nix!
After giving it a little thought, I think I'll start with stock Debian. If I can get ZFS and containers working, then I can add the repositories for Ubuntu to the workstation so that I can install Ubuntu packages, and keep a full-blown Ubuntu virtual machine on standby if I need anything more on the odd occasion. If I find myself having to load the virtual container too often, then I'll switch to Ubuntu.
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#31

Name that *nix!
I suggest at least a testing build, if not SID right from the get-go. This keeps you in the most current repositories. I go the stable route on the producton servers but that also keeps me in less current security releases on some packages.
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#32

Name that *nix!
(06-07-2020, 09:12 PM)skyking Wrote: I suggest at least a testing build, if not SID right from the get-go. This keeps you in the most current repositories. I go the stable route on the producton servers but that also keeps me in less current security releases on some packages.

Couldn't I install stable and add those repositories and then only update the packages that I regularly use? (Maybe unloading the repositories for full updates to stable.)
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#33

Name that *nix!
Yes you can do a full roll-your-own.
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#34

Name that *nix!
(06-07-2020, 10:21 PM)skyking Wrote: Yes you can do a full roll-your-own.

Cool. Thanks for the info about security differences.
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#35

Name that *nix!
https://backports.debian.org/

You are running Debian stable, because you prefer the Debian stable tree. It runs great, there is just one problem: the software is a little bit outdated compared to other distributions. This is where backports come in.

Backports are packages taken from the next Debian release (called "testing"), adjusted and recompiled for usage on Debian stable. Because the package is also present in the next Debian release, you can easily upgrade your stable+backports system once the next Debian release comes out. (In a few cases, usually for security updates, backports are also created from the Debian unstable distribution.)

Backports cannot be tested as extensively as Debian stable, and backports are provided on an as-is basis, with risk of incompatibilities with other components in Debian stable. Use with care!

It is therefore recommended to only select single backported packages that fit your needs, and not use all available backports.

--------

For roll your own, there are backports.
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#36

Name that *nix!
Well I have gone from a fully functional Windoze 10 PC, to a partially functioning Ubuntu live disc PC to a non-functional Windoze 10 PC to a non-booting (except DVD) PC to a functional Ubuntu PC to a fixed Windoze 10 PC and finally to a fully functional Ubuntu/Windoze 10 dual boot PC. All in about 36 hours. and with only a few moments when I wanted to break things.

Windoze 10 has got to be the most fragile Windoze version ever. Running a live disc on the same machine and making a backup of the Win 7 installation that resided on the M2 drive while making no changes whatsoever to the Win 10 drive, caused the Windoze boot manager to fail. Ugh!
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#37

Name that *nix!
My first OS was Ubuntu and I used it for a very very long time. Then I tried around with Xubuntu and Mint for a little bit, just to bounce back to Ubuntu.
When I found gaming was a thing I liked I did a dual boot for a year or two so I would game on windows and everything else on Ubuntu.
Until I got too lazy for the back and forth and just stuck with Windows at that point.

That said, i am currently waiting for an external hard drive to be delivered so I can do a backup, then I will set up a dual boot again. Not sure what yet. Maybe not a Debian distro for once. We will see haha.
I am rusty so there is that.
2+2=4
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#38

Name that *nix!
woops
sorry double post
2+2=4
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#39

Name that *nix!
I'm going to agree with @Mathilde, for me it's OpenSuSE for the win.  Recently put it on my old Dell lappy, and it's just gorgeous.  I've used it off and on since the '90s and it's always been robust, compatible, user-friendly, and damn near bulletproof.  It plays nice with RPM, it doesn't insist on 'shinies' I don't want, and it's never crashed on me for no damned reason.  Not that it's never crashed on me -- but any time it has, I've been able to backtrace and see what I screwed up.

For the record, the last time a Linux install crashed on me for no discernable reason was December 1994.  Yggdrasil kernel 1.0.3 or something obscenely early like that—back when the install manual warned that misconfiguring X could catch your monitor on fire.  Now THAT will make you sit up and pay attention to the manual!

Meanwhile, the last time Windows crashed on me for no reason was last week.
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#40

Name that *nix!
)
(06-09-2020, 12:39 AM)trdsf Wrote: I'm going to agree with @Mathilde, for me it's OpenSuSE for the win.  Recently put it on my old Dell lappy, and it's just gorgeous.  I've used it off and on since the '90s and it's always been robust, compatible, user-friendly, and damn near bulletproof.  It plays nice with RPM, it doesn't insist on 'shinies' I don't want, and it's never crashed on me for no damned reason.  Not that it's never crashed on me -- but any time it has, I've been able to backtrace and see what I screwed up.

For the record, the last time a Linux install crashed on me for no discernable reason was December 1994.  Yggdrasil kernel 1.0.3 or something obscenely early like that—back when the install manual warned that misconfiguring X could catch your monitor on fire.  Now THAT will make you sit up and pay attention to the manual!

Meanwhile, the last time Windows crashed on me for no reason was last week.

I've already dealt with a couple hard freezes in Ubuntu 18.04 that I have not seen in Ubuntu 16.04 (Plex server). Googling about it on the internet, it seems it's a memory issue (out of memory), possibly linked to Firefox, but as I type this my memory usage is at about 12%. I've got 32Gig installed and a swap partition at 150% of that (currently at 0%). Being a Linux newbie, It's likely a self-inflicted issue, but I'll be damned if I can trace it down.
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#41

Name that *nix!
when you don't use a desktop environment, it just doesn't crash at all. I have locked myself out at the firewall in the old days of FreeBSD and ipfw, hosed up all sorts of things as root and had to go back in single user mode, but it was never the system crashing on it's own accord.
If it ever locked up on me it was due to dodgy hardware.
I had a PSU go rogue and burn down my first fileserver. Back then drives were pricey so I had a bunch of small disks mounted. It cooked everything, except it seemed the NIC card.
Later on that NIC set me straight Big Grin
I lost contact with the next little server, and had to crawl down there and hook up a monitor and keyboard. Kernel panic over that NIC finally crapping out, LOL.
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#42

Name that *nix!
Occasionally it can be systemd's fault. Systemd misconfigured can fill you /var partition full of stuff. I had an early version of Mageia do that with me, I had 8 gb of logs filling up my system partition. Setting systemd to logging to a reasonable default cleared the problem.
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#43

Name that *nix!
I updated the video driver to a proprietary Nvidia driver and it seems to have alleviated the issue. Right now I'm doing some stuff in Windows that I don't yet have applications for in Linux. Having Firefox use a profile shared between the two operating systems sure makes browsing the internet easy. Smile
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#44

Name that *nix!
(06-08-2020, 09:38 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: Well I have gone from a fully functional Windoze 10 PC, to a partially functioning Ubuntu live disc PC to a non-functional Windoze 10 PC to a non-booting (except DVD) PC to a functional Ubuntu PC to a fixed Windoze 10 PC and finally to a fully functional Ubuntu/Windoze 10 dual boot PC. All in about 36 hours. and with only a few moments when I wanted to break things.

Windoze 10 has got to be the most fragile Windoze version ever. Running a live disc on the same machine and making a backup of the Win 7 installation that resided on the M2 drive while making no changes whatsoever to the Win 10 drive, caused the Windoze boot manager to fail. Ugh!

Yup, lovable old Windows tricks.  The Linux solution, run Windows in a VM and us a chain loader.  Grub launches Windows 10 in the VM but chains to the Windows 10 boot loader.  Windows doesn't know it is in a VM and can't touch the boot loader, (Grub), the MBR or the EFI partition.  One way to do that.  Some people run several Windows VM, sometimes there are apps that run under Windows 7 that won't under Windows 10.  And Windows 10 craps on everything if you are not very careful.  Some machines have a not very good BIOS that does not deal well with Windows UEFI just to make life more miserable.

"We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!"
- Gollum
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#45

Name that *nix!
Meh. For now a quick dip into the BIOS to switch from Win drive to Linux drive or back works fine. As I get more software installed in Ubuntu and need Windoze less, those dips into the BIOS will get fewer and farther between.
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