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What's happening to Hong Kong?
#1

What's happening to Hong Kong?
China is exerting more control over Hong Kong and, sadly, I don't think it will end well for the people of Hong Kong. They are ready to fight back and have already engaged in protests for about a year against Chinese policies but mainland China's government seems resolved to crack down no matter what.

Quote: A day after Beijing unveiled a resolution at the opening of its annual legislative sessions to “prevent, frustrate and punish” threats to national security by outlawing acts of secession, subversion and terrorism in Hong Kong, Han, the state leader in charge of the city’s affairs, further explained the new law to members of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) in the capital during a 1½-hour meeting on Saturday morning.

The proposed law will bypass the city’s legislature. It will require the Hong Kong government to set up new institutions to safeguard sovereignty and allow mainland agencies to operate in the city when needed.

The law has sparked concerns over the fate of the “one country, two systems” blueprint that has guided Hong Kong since the handover of the city from British to Chinese rule in 1997.


Faced with criticism from the international community, the office of China’s foreign ministry in Hong Kong hit out at certain countries for making “irresponsible comments” about the legislation.

Protesters, meanwhile, vowed more demonstrations on Sunday, with police sources saying that about 6,000 riot officers would be on standby to deal with any flare-ups.



https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/poli...-will-only
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

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#2

What's happening to Hong Kong?
Their time may have come.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#3

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-24-2020, 01:00 AM)brewerb Wrote: Their time may have come.

That is a chilling thought.

-Teresa
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#4

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-24-2020, 01:19 AM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(05-24-2020, 01:00 AM)brewerb Wrote: Their time may have come.

That is a chilling thought.

-Teresa

Cha-cha-cha-changes.

Not always for the better.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#5

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-24-2020, 01:19 AM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(05-24-2020, 01:00 AM)brewerb Wrote: Their time may have come.

That is a chilling thought.

-Teresa

It is. But once the British Empire was rendered strapped by WWII, the Chinese gaining HK has only been a matter of time. It sucks for them there, fighting for their freedom. I've been following the story since last year and feel for them. But if China wanted to present a fait accompli (and in this context that seems to be the case), what is there that the man on the street can do in HK? Sure can't count on the US to engage on his or her behalf.
Freedom isn't free.
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#6

What's happening to Hong Kong?
Taiwan will be next.
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#7

What's happening to Hong Kong?
China certainly seems to be in an expansionist mood, I've seen reports about Mongolians complaining about Chinese intentions, border incursions and Maoist activity in Nepal, India and Bhutan, the Nine Dash Line together with a large naval build up (particularly for a continental power).
Add to that China's acquisition of virtually all bullion on the market and the various projects under the Belt and Road plan (which is in part responsible for the increasing tension between Russia and Turkey)  Consider
I don't think Taiwan is a priority for the Chinese, the real question is what they will see as a bottle neck on their trade.
Maybe we'll see a Chinese carrier in the Red sea at some point...
[Image: 3VAPDSUGCVDOBN24VFXWXPT5VA.jpg]
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#8

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-24-2020, 03:10 AM)SYZ Wrote: Taiwan will be next.

I think this is why the Chinese have been building bases in the South China Sea -- to further isolate the Taiwanese, as well as broaden any necessary avenues of attack should it come to blows. It'll be a few decades, but you're right, they're next on the chopping-block.
Freedom isn't free.
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#9

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-24-2020, 11:26 AM)Mr Greene Wrote: China certainly seems to be in an expansionist mood, I've seen reports about Mongolians complaining about Chinese intentions, border incursions and Maoist activity in Nepal, India and Bhutan, the Nine Dash Line together with a large naval build up (particularly for a continental power).
Add to that China's acquisition of virtually all bullion on the market and the various projects under the Belt and Road plan (which is in part responsible for the increasing tension between Russia and Turkey)  Consider
I don't think Taiwan is a priority for the Chinese, the real question is what they will see as a bottle neck on their trade.
Maybe we'll see a Chinese carrier in the Red sea at some point...
[Image: 3VAPDSUGCVDOBN24VFXWXPT5VA.jpg]


If the Liaoning (Varyag) is anything like her sister ship the Admiral Kuznetsov they had better send a tug along to drag her home when she breaks down.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#10

What's happening to Hong Kong?
I liked Hong Kong. Got to visit the Bottoms Up Bar, featured in "The Man With The Golden Gun." Some of the First Emperor's treasures were on display, including some of the Terra Cotta Army. And scotch was a lot cheaper than in the US.
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#11

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-24-2020, 03:33 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(05-24-2020, 11:26 AM)Mr Greene Wrote: China certainly seems to be in an expansionist mood, I've seen reports about Mongolians complaining about Chinese intentions, border incursions and Maoist activity in Nepal, India and Bhutan, the Nine Dash Line together with a large naval build up (particularly for a continental power).
Add to that China's acquisition of virtually all bullion on the market and the various projects under the Belt and Road plan (which is in part responsible for the increasing tension between Russia and Turkey)  Consider
I don't think Taiwan is a priority for the Chinese, the real question is what they will see as a bottle neck on their trade.
Maybe we'll see a Chinese carrier in the Red sea at some point...
[Image: 3VAPDSUGCVDOBN24VFXWXPT5VA.jpg]


If the Liaoning (Varyag) is anything like her sister ship the Admiral Kuznetsov they had better send a tug along to drag her home when she breaks down.

Perhaps but there is this...
[Image: PLN%2BType%2B003%2Bcarrier%2B-%2B20191229.jpg]
I still think Taiwan would be short sighted, I'd look at somewhere between Zanzibar and Suez for an acquisition.
That or somewhere in Indonesia which would be the other bottleneck on the maritime route...
[Image: south-china-sea.png]
[Image: bri_map.png]
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#12

What's happening to Hong Kong?
Looking into it a bit more reveals that China is taking control of Mombasa in Kenya having lent a huge sum to "assist" construction and modernization of the port facilities. When Kenya couldn't pay Beijing began legal procedures to move in...
Kenya Could Lose Its Mombasa Port to China Over SGR Debt
Apparently they're looking for a 99 yr lease.
A bit further south than I was expecting but well within range for further acquisitions in the region.

In 2018 East African debt to China was;
Ethiopia $13.73 billion
Kenya $9.8 billion
Uganda $2.96 billion
Tanzania $2.34 billion
Rwanda $289 million
South Sudan $182 million
Burundi $99 million

China places clauses in it's loans so that disputes can only be settled in Beijing and they can refuse to accept payment if it is acquired from outside sources.

Looking at the Malacca Straits;
[Image: infrastructure%20needs%20map.jpg]
[Image: DFFOOwyXoAAXQQY.jpg]
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#13

What's happening to Hong Kong?
I thought Mombasa looked too far south, the Chinese are building a naval base at Djibouti, right at the mouth of the Red Sea.
[Image: MZS2YWRKQUI6VP76AIGIRM7REA.jpg]
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#14

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-24-2020, 07:57 PM)Mr Greene Wrote: Looking into it a bit more reveals that China is taking control of Mombasa in Kenya having lent a huge sum to "assist" construction and modernization of the port facilities. When Kenya couldn't pay Beijing began legal procedures to move in...
Kenya Could Lose Its Mombasa Port to China Over SGR Debt
Apparently they're looking for a 99 yr lease.
A bit further south than I was expecting but well within range for further acquisitions in the region.

In 2018 East African debt to China was;
Ethiopia $13.73 billion
Kenya $9.8 billion
Uganda $2.96 billion
Tanzania $2.34 billion
Rwanda $289 million
South Sudan $182 million
Burundi $99 million

China places clauses in it's loans so that disputes can only be settled in Beijing and they can refuse to accept payment if it is acquired from outside sources.

[size=s
mall]Looking at the Malacca 
[/size]Straits;
[Image: infrastructure%20needs%20map.jpg]
[Image: DFFOOwyXoAAXQQY.jpg]

This is the real danger of China. It isn't their military power. They can't project global forces on land, or in the air or sea, beyond a regional basis, unless they go nuclear, which I doubt will happen. But what they have done (wisely, in my judgement) is leverage their economic power to use tech-poor, resource-rich areas, offering in trade know-how and hands-on experience to the locals. An updated colonialism of sorts.

Chinese leadership strikes me as circumspect and patient. I'm guessing that the use of economic rather than military power is a decision, not an accident. I don't think aircraft-carriers figure in as much as B&R initiatives, or the infrastructure investments they're making in Africa, and I think it's purposeful.
Freedom isn't free.
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#15

What's happening to Hong Kong?
♫Shake Djibouti, Shake Djibouti♫
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#16

What's happening to Hong Kong?
China is taking it over, bored with waiting for the 2047 agreement to end. Who is going to stop them? The self-lamed US?
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#17

What's happening to Hong Kong?
They may not have huge naval power right now but there are plans for 10 carriers over the next couple of decades.
That isn't isn't about coastal defence or regional power.
Of course with a global recession about to break a huge amount of those BRI loans are going to default...
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#18

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-25-2020, 01:51 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: This is the real danger of China. It isn't their military power. They can't project global forces on land, or in the air or sea, beyond a regional basis, unless they go nuclear, which I doubt will happen. But what they have done (wisely, in my judgement) is leverage their economic power to use tech-poor, resource-rich areas, offering in trade know-how and hands-on experience to the locals. An updated colonialism of sorts.

Chinese leadership strikes me as circumspect and patient. I'm guessing that the use of economic rather than military power is a decision, not an accident. I don't think aircraft-carriers figure in as much as B&R initiatives, or the infrastructure investments they're making in Africa, and I think it's purposeful.

I think someone has studied the expansion of British Empire, it's like watching a rerun of the East India Company.
The Indian Ocean has 3 choke points; The Red Sea, Cape of Good Hope and the Malacca Straits.
Britain took control at Aden, Cape Town and Singapore and turned the Indian Ocean into a British pond.
Now the Chinese are doing exactly the same, even using finance in the same manner (Britain didn't acquire such a huge proportion of the planet through military means).
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#19

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(05-25-2020, 11:12 AM)Mr Greene Wrote:
(05-25-2020, 01:51 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: This is the real danger of China. It isn't their military power. They can't project global forces on land, or in the air or sea, beyond a regional basis, unless they go nuclear, which I doubt will happen. But what they have done (wisely, in my judgement) is leverage their economic power to use tech-poor, resource-rich areas, offering in trade know-how and hands-on experience to the locals. An updated colonialism of sorts.

Chinese leadership strikes me as circumspect and patient. I'm guessing that the use of economic rather than military power is a decision, not an accident. I don't think aircraft-carriers figure in as much as B&R initiatives, or the infrastructure investments they're making in Africa, and I think it's purposeful.

I think someone has studied the expansion of British Empire, it's like watching a rerun of the East India Company.
The Indian Ocean has 3 choke points; The Red Sea, Cape of Good Hope and the Malacca Straits.
Britain took control at Aden, Cape Town and Singapore and turned the Indian Ocean into a British pond.
Now the Chinese are doing exactly the same, even using finance in the same manner (Britain didn't acquire such a huge proportion of the planet through military means).


I hadn't thought about it from that angle. Thanks for the food to chew on.
Freedom isn't free.
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#20

What's happening to Hong Kong?
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#21

What's happening to Hong Kong?
We are more of a threat to our financial dominance than they are.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#22

What's happening to Hong Kong?
(Today, 12:55 AM)Minimalist Wrote: We are more of a threat to our financial dominance than they are.

Under the current management yes, but we will have to deal with an Asian dominated economic system sooner or later.
From economic dominance comes political and military power and we'll have to face the question of what Beijing does with a democracy at it's mercy, which brings us back to Hong Kong.
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#23

What's happening to Hong Kong?
Hong Kong is being taken over by the Bejing Government in violation of the agreement granting them autonomy until 2047. I for one am not the least surprised. That's how China works. Promise, lie, and then cheat. It isn't like anyone would be dumb enough to invade them.

The solution is to move all manufacturing out of China. Then the Govt will collapse. Well worth the cost.
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#24

What's happening to Hong Kong?
And now China makes yet another incursion into India, though Delhi seems to be reacting a bit more this time.
Chinese troops have forced their way into the Galwan valley in Ladakh, in the disputed Kashmir region
It seems connected to the BRI road from China to Pakistan.
[Image: _112556697_40c7ab63-128d-4246-af1c-c8b7bce6aa2a.png]
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