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As the darkness consumes my soul.
#76

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 02:43 AM)SYZ Wrote: For anybody who wonders at my dislike of Islam and its cruel, dogmatic tenets, check this out.

Two teenage girls have been murdered in north-west Pakistan in a so-called "honour killing".

Police say the killing occurred after a short video of the girls with a young man emerged on social media.
They are said to have been shot dead by family members earlier this week.  An earlier First Information
Report filed by the Razmak police station had said the girls, aged 16 and 18, were "killed in the name of
honour by their paternal cousin".

As repugnant as that shit is we can't pin the rap on Islam.
Honour killings are almost exclusively a cultural thing not religion.

Quote:The ideology of honor is a cultural phenomenon that does not appear to be related to religion, be it Middle Eastern or Western countries, and honor killings likely have a long history in human societies which predate many modern religions.

Wiki.
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#77

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 04:04 PM)SYZ Wrote: So you're implying that Link's stated religion—that of Islam—has no bearing on the deaths of hundreds of innocent girls and women?

No. I'm not implying anything of the sort. You should learn how to read for content.

I'm saying that using slurs against him because of the acts of others is the mark of a bigot. Are we clear on what I'm saying now?

(05-18-2020, 04:04 PM)SYZ Wrote: And note a few phrases in his nonsensical "poem":  Oh God destroy the oppressors... and hasten the
deliverance of your people and friends... hasten the victory
.

Well, that certainly justifies racism ... an online poem you didn't even have to read. Good lord, how did you survive such brutal treatment?

(05-18-2020, 04:04 PM)SYZ Wrote: By the way, your accusation of me being "racist" is erroneous.  Race and religion are two entirely different things.

Hey, asshole, "raghead" is a racial slur directed against those of Middle Eastern or South Asian ethnicity and has nothing to do with religion (ask me how I know). You're the one who pivoted from racism to religion in an attempt to excuse your racist language. Since race and religion are indeed two entirely different things, you probably shouldn't use racial slurs when you're objecting to someone's religious expression.
Freedom isn't free.
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#78

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 04:13 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 02:43 AM)SYZ Wrote: For anybody who wonders at my dislike of Islam and its cruel, dogmatic tenets, check this out.

Two teenage girls have been murdered in north-west Pakistan in a so-called "honour killing".

Police say the killing occurred after a short video of the girls with a young man emerged on social media.
They are said to have been shot dead by family members earlier this week.  An earlier First Information
Report filed by the Razmak police station had said the girls, aged 16 and 18, were "killed in the name of
honour by their paternal cousin".

As repugnant as that shit is we can't pin the rap on Islam.
Honour killings are almost exclusively a cultural thing not religion.

Quote:The ideology of honor is a cultural phenomenon that does not appear to be related to religion, be it Middle Eastern or Western countries, and honor killings likely have a long history in human societies which predate many modern religions.

Wiki.

I have a sneaky suspicion if you asked the murderer for more detail on why he did it, religious justification would come up pretty quick.  It's easier to do terrible things when the Creator Of the Whole Freaking Universe approves.
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#79

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 04:23 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I have a sneaky suspicion if you asked the murderer for more detail on why he did it, religious justification would come up pretty quick.  It's easier to do terrible things when the Creator Of the Whole Freaking Universe approves.

... which still does not make using racial epithets right.

Also, much of what Islam preaches as for behavior has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself. Honor killings, polygamy, the hatred for dogs, amongst others.
Freedom isn't free.
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#80

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 03:55 PM)Vera Wrote: I was feeling sorry for him before he showed his real, judgemental and insulting face.

When I first saw Link (Aka MysticKnight), it was over at AF.org half a dozen years ago. He was a very nice member, he described himself as a Deist and was quite nice to talk with. Some time after, he dissapeared for a year or two, returning in the current form as you wthness right now. I used to feel sorry for him before that, as he struggled with mental ilnness and was supported by people there, its no joking matter IMHO.

I wonder what happened during those couple of years, yet, something weird also happened to Evie in an interregnum from the forums that went from pure rational atheist, to cray atheist.
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#81

As the darkness consumes my soul.
Hey, MK. If you would ever revert to viewing us as people, and engaging with us as people, instead of targets for your pathetic proselytization, you might find a warmer welcome here. You used to be the kind of guy that could do that, and I miss that guy. Until you can be that guy again, though, kindly fuck right off, all the way off.

Stop your inane blathering. You're only pissing people off.
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#82

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 05:55 PM)LastPoet Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:55 PM)Vera Wrote: I was feeling sorry for him before he showed his real, judgemental and insulting face.

When I first saw Link (Aka MysticKnight), it was over at AF.org half a dozen years ago. He was a very nice member, he described himself as a Deist and was quite nice to talk with. Some time after, he dissapeared for a year or two, returning in the current form as you wthness right now. I used to feel sorry for him before that, as he struggled with mental ilnness and was supported by people there, its no joking matter IMHO.

I wonder what happened during those couple of years, yet, something weird also happened to Evie in an interregnum from the forums that went from pure rational atheist, to cray atheist.

Yeah, I remember, and miss, that MK as well. Too bad this current chuckle-fuck had to kill a decent guy.
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#83

As the darkness consumes my soul.
So, bad poetry is the Islamic Hell?
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#84

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 08:54 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: So, bad poetry is the Islamic Hell?

All 72 quatrains of it.
Freedom isn't free.
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#85

As the darkness consumes my soul.
If the darkness consumed my hypothesized soul, I would say "Good riddance!" Such a concept obviously can't stand up to a little worldly wear-and-tear.
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#86

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 03:26 PM)Link Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 06:00 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 05:49 AM)Cavebear Wrote: Following you to see what you say.  Not something I would normally do, but I'm feeling challenging today.

They won't allow my email address.  Why "cavebear" is offensive I have no idea.  It was simply an animal of  previous age.

It's because anti-Shiites always refer to Imam Mahdi (a) as a going to a cave and being a caveman.

It sounds like bad filtering and thin skin.  They should get over themselves.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#87

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 04:13 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 02:43 AM)SYZ Wrote: For anybody who wonders at my dislike of Islam and its cruel, dogmatic tenets, check this out.

Two teenage girls have been murdered in north-west Pakistan in a so-called "honour killing".

Police say the killing occurred after a short video of the girls with a young man emerged on social media.
They are said to have been shot dead by family members earlier this week.  An earlier First Information
Report filed by the Razmak police station had said the girls, aged 16 and 18, were "killed in the name of
honour by their paternal cousin".

As repugnant as that shit is we can't pin the rap on Islam.
Honour killings are almost exclusively a cultural thing not religion.

Quote:The ideology of honor is a cultural phenomenon that does not appear to be related to religion, be it Middle Eastern or Western countries, and honor killings likely have a long history in human societies which predate many modern religions.

Wiki.

Yet, their religion of peace does nothing to prevent them.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#88

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 04:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:23 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I have a sneaky suspicion if you asked the murderer for more detail on why he did it, religious justification would come up pretty quick.  It's easier to do terrible things when the Creator Of the Whole Freaking Universe approves.

... which still does not make using racial epithets right.

Also, much of what Islam preaches as for behavior has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself. Honor killings, polygamy, the hatred for dogs, amongst others.

Well, that means it is part of the religion, that it has been assimilated and not rejected.
I think then that the criticism of Islam stands.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#89

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 09:08 PM)Chas Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:23 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I have a sneaky suspicion if you asked the murderer for more detail on why he did it, religious justification would come up pretty quick.  It's easier to do terrible things when the Creator Of the Whole Freaking Universe approves.

... which still does not make using racial epithets right.

Also, much of what Islam preaches as for behavior has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself. Honor killings, polygamy, the hatred for dogs, amongst others.

Well, that means it is part of the religion, that it has been assimilated and not rejected.
I think then that the criticism of Islam stands.

But that also means that its cultural roots aren't limited to Islam.

As is usual, religion is the fig-leaf for shitty behavior. That doesn't mean it's the cause of it.
Freedom isn't free.
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#90

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 09:49 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 09:08 PM)Chas Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: ... which still does not make using racial epithets right.

Also, much of what Islam preaches as for behavior has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself. Honor killings, polygamy, the hatred for dogs, amongst others.

Well, that means it is part of the religion, that it has been assimilated and not rejected.
I think then that the criticism of Islam stands.

But that also means that its cultural roots aren't limited to Islam.

As is usual, religion is the fig-leaf for shitty behavior. That doesn't mean it's the cause of it.

I, for one, don't care whether or not it originated with the religion.  It's part of it. They approve these evils.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#91

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 04:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:23 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I have a sneaky suspicion if you asked the murderer for more detail on why he did it, religious justification would come up pretty quick.  It's easier to do terrible things when the Creator Of the Whole Freaking Universe approves.

... which still does not make using racial epithets right.

Also, much of what Islam preaches as for behavior has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself. Honor killings, polygamy, the hatred for dogs, amongst others.

Whoa there partner.  I didn't say any such thing.  Ink's post stood alone on its own merits, I'm not obligated to go deep into the rabbit hole to find the exact origins of the point he was making.

Regarding the other part, I would argue that all of what all religion preaches has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself.  Religion just codifies and justifies and sanctions and gives supernatural green light to our primitive ape-like impulses.  "Good" religious individuals reform themselves and their religions to keep up with advances in ethics and morality, even better individuals become atheists.
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#92

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:26 PM)Link Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 06:00 AM)Cavebear Wrote: They won't allow my email address.  Why "cavebear" is offensive I have no idea.  It was simply an animal of  previous age.

It's because anti-Shiites always refer to Imam Mahdi (a) as a going to a cave and being a caveman.

It sounds like bad filtering and thin skin.  They should get over themselves.

Thin skin?  The forum just had a stroke over a guy posting a poem.
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#93

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 10:51 PM)Chas Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 09:49 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: But that also means that its cultural roots aren't limited to Islam.

As is usual, religion is the fig-leaf for shitty behavior. That doesn't mean it's the cause of it.

I, for one, don't care whether or not it originated with the religion.  It's part of it. They approve these evils.

I think understanding why a thing is is useful in understanding how to defuse it.
Freedom isn't free.
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#94

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 10:58 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:23 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I have a sneaky suspicion if you asked the murderer for more detail on why he did it, religious justification would come up pretty quick.  It's easier to do terrible things when the Creator Of the Whole Freaking Universe approves.

... which still does not make using racial epithets right.

Whoa there partner.  I didn't say any such thing. 

It's a good thing I didn't accuse you of saying that, then! I'm simply pointing out that no matter Link's post, @SYZ's slur is bullshit, and his retreat to religious attacks is not really explanatory.

(05-18-2020, 10:58 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Regarding the other part, I would argue that all of what all religion preaches has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself.  Religion just codifies and justifies and sanctions and gives supernatural green light to our primitive ape-like impulses.  "Good" religious individuals reform themselves and their religions to keep up with advances in ethics and morality, even better individuals become atheists.

Indeed. Funny thing is, man invented the antecedent cultures too, and invented those religions which then picked up on the mores of the time and milieu where they were born, which means that blaming religion for those errors really doesn't explain much; it's pretty tautological, in the historical sense that culture and religion were feeding each other. And that means blaming this or that religion for this or that practice is not always very accurate -- and certainly not in the case of Islam and haremism and honor killings, where the practice happened long before the religion was invented.
Freedom isn't free.
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#95

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 11:47 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 10:58 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 04:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: ... which still does not make using racial epithets right.

Whoa there partner.  I didn't say any such thing. 

It's a good thing I didn't accuse you of saying that, then! I'm simply pointing out that no matter Link's post, @SYZ's slur is bullshit, and his retreat to religious attacks is not really explanatory.

It's a good thing you didn't cherry pick my quote and ignore the last sentence, which was: " Ink's post stood alone on its own merits, I'm not obligated to go deep into the rabbit hole to find the exact origins of the point he was making."  Which literally means I wasn't talking about Link or SYZ, doesn't it?  And I'm the one that doesn't have honest conversations lol.

(05-18-2020, 11:47 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 10:58 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Regarding the other part, I would argue that all of what all religion preaches has cultural antecedents which long predate the religion itself.  Religion just codifies and justifies and sanctions and gives supernatural green light to our primitive ape-like impulses.  "Good" religious individuals reform themselves and their religions to keep up with advances in ethics and morality, even better individuals become atheists.

Indeed. Funny thing is, man invented the antecedent cultures too, and invented those religions which picked up on the mores of the time and milieu where they were born, which means that blaming religion for those errors really doesn't explain much. And that means blaming this or that religion for this or that practice is not always very accurate -- and certainly not in the case of Islam and haremism and honor killings, where the practice happened long before the religion was invented.

No, it explains a huge fuckload of human behavior.  To think that just because the "culture" (human ape-like intuitions and instincts) came first and religion came along later means religion can't be blamed and isn't explanatory to a large degree is crazy.  Again, if you literally ask the guy why he murdered his female cousins, how many sentences do you think you would have to wait before shit like "Islam" and "doing Allah's will" come out of his pie-hole?
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#96

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-19-2020, 12:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: It's a good thing you didn't cherry pick my quote and ignore the last sentence, which was: " Ink's post stood alone on its own merits, I'm not obligated to go deep into the rabbit hole to find the exact origins of the point he was making."  Which literally means I wasn't talking about Link or SYZ, doesn't it?  And I'm the one that doesn't have honest conversations lol.

Well, see that's the thing. I was here having this conversation and had my own points, which I made.

If you didn't want to go into the causes, then don't quote my post which is actually talking about the antecedents of the practices. If you don't like my point and want to reply, great. If you quote me in reply and don't address my point, of course I will give you shit. Get the hell over it already. Don't engage me unless you actually wish to engage my point that I'm making.

(05-19-2020, 12:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: No, it explains a huge fuckload of human behavior.  To think that just because the "culture" (human ape-like intuitions and instincts) came first and religion came along later means religion can't be blamed and isn't explanatory to a large degree is crazy.  Again, if you literally ask the guy why he murdered his female cousins, how many sentences do you think you would have to wait before shit like "Islam" and "doing Allah's will" come out of his pie-hole?

I'm pretty sure I used the term "fig-leaf for shitty behavior" in describing religion. That is clearly not absolving it of blame, insofar as it means that men use religion to excuse otherwise inexcusable behavior.

I had thought that was obvious. Sorry I had to spell it out for you. Let me know if you need any further assistance.
Freedom isn't free.
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#97

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-19-2020, 12:22 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 12:01 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: It's a good thing you didn't cherry pick my quote and ignore the last sentence, which was: " Ink's post stood alone on its own merits, I'm not obligated to go deep into the rabbit hole to find the exact origins of the point he was making."  Which literally means I wasn't talking about Link or SYZ, doesn't it?  And I'm the one that doesn't have honest conversations lol.

Well, see that's the thing. I was here having this conversation and had my own points, which I made.

Why am I supposed to give a shit?  I didn't quote you, you quoted me.
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#98

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-18-2020, 11:03 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:26 PM)Link Wrote: It's because anti-Shiites always refer to Imam Mahdi (a) as a going to a cave and being a caveman.

It sounds like bad filtering and thin skin.  They should get over themselves.

Thin skin?  The forum just had a stroke over a guy posting a poem.

So, people pointing out that he's posting badly scribbled shit (and someone picking the same old fight with the ame old person for the n'th time) is the forum having a stroke?

Plus ça change, plus c'est lê meme jerk Deadpan Coffee Drinker
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#99

As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-19-2020, 12:42 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Why am I supposed to give a shit?  I didn't quote you, you quoted me.

I still had my point to make. Don't like it? Tough titty. Quit your whining already. If you want a private conversation, use PMs.

I notice you didn't address anything else I wrote you. Is this the part where I cry about "cherry-picking"?
Freedom isn't free.
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As the darkness consumes my soul.
(05-19-2020, 01:00 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 12:42 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Why am I supposed to give a shit?  I didn't quote you, you quoted me.

I still had my point to make. Don't like it? Tough titty.

All right high horseman, let everyone hear your great point that you have to make.
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