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Pascal's Mugging
#51

Pascal's Mugging
(05-04-2020, 04:10 PM)LastPoet Wrote:
(05-04-2020, 03:23 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 05:18 PM)Szuchow Wrote: No meds can cure this particular delusion.

That's because you can't cure stupid.  It is not a disease.

I believe he admitted to suffer from schizofrenia at some point. To those, a simple delusion can be greatly amplified by the condition. I've seen him talk about being possessed by demons and dwelving deep into religion is "helping" his fight against said demons. Its somewhere at AF, but I don't go there anymore.

I've pointed this out to him before. His biggest problem is that he's arrogant and stupid, neither of which are symptoms of schizophrenia.
[Image: signature%20The-Ascension-of-Iweko.jpg]
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#52

Pascal's Mugging
(05-03-2020, 03:57 PM)Link Wrote: @Vera One day, you will have to chose to love over hate.  You hate the light, the blessed tree we are connected to, because you let your sins overwhelm you and darken your heart.

You're an arrogant, impertinent, judgmental ass. You don't know Vera's heart much less to say that it's "darkened".

You owe her an apology.
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#53

Pascal's Mugging
(05-05-2020, 12:32 PM)mordant Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 03:57 PM)Link Wrote: @Vera One day, you will have to chose to love over hate.  You hate the light, the blessed tree we are connected to, because you let your sins overwhelm you and darken your heart.

You're an arrogant, impertinent, judgmental ass. You don't know Vera's heart much less to say that it's "darkened".

You owe her an apology.

Oh, didn't you know?  Having faith means full license to treat everyone like shit on the basis of whatever imaginary narrative you like, because believing without evidence and acting on that baseless belief is exactly what faith is.
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov
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#54

Pascal's Mugging
(05-05-2020, 12:32 PM)mordant Wrote: You're an arrogant, impertinent, judgmental ass. You don't know Vera's heart much less to say that it's "darkened".

You owe her an apology.

(05-05-2020, 01:41 PM)Reltzik Wrote: Oh, didn't you know?  Having faith means full license to treat everyone like shit on the basis of whatever imaginary narrative you like, because believing without evidence and acting on that baseless belief is exactly what faith is.

But it goes perfectly with Pascal's revile-and-pity the atheists line of "thinking" (also known as "if I keep on stopping my ears and shouting how right I am and how miserable those atheists are, I might - just might - silence those horrible horrible doubts.")

Coincidentally, it goes equally perfectly with that "masterpiece" of pretentious, brain-suckingly empty deepities, Tarkovsky's Stalker, the main take from which (after a whole bunch of nothing and pseudo-philosophical mumbo-jumbo (because I'm such a fan of "real" philosophical mumbo-jumbo, you know Dodgy ) is this gem at the end, the deepest, most philosophicalest punch of them all:

"You can't even imagine how tired I am! God only knows! Calling themselves intellectuals, those writers and scientists! They don't believe in anything! They've got the organ with which one believes atrophied for lack of use. Oh God, what people..."

"Calm down, it's not their fault. You ought to pity them, not to be angry with them."

"Haven't you seen them? They've got empty eyes. The only thing they can think about is how to sell themselves not too cheap! How to get as much as possible for their every emotional movement! They know they were "born for a purpose", "called upon"! After all, they live "only once"! Can people like that believe in anything? And nobody believes. Not only those two. Nobody!""



(And yeah, I've ranted about it before but god, I am *still* mad at just what utter bilge it was! The emperor is not just naked, he hasn't even discovered fire yet!)
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#55

Pascal's Mugging
(05-05-2020, 06:11 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-05-2020, 12:32 PM)mordant Wrote: You're an arrogant, impertinent, judgmental ass. You don't know Vera's heart much less to say that it's "darkened".

You owe her an apology.

(05-05-2020, 01:41 PM)Reltzik Wrote: Oh, didn't you know?  Having faith means full license to treat everyone like shit on the basis of whatever imaginary narrative you like, because believing without evidence and acting on that baseless belief is exactly what faith is.

But it goes perfectly with Pascal's revile-and-pity the atheists line of "thinking" (also known as "if I keep on stopping my ears and shouting how right I am and how miserable those atheists are, I might - just might - silence those horrible horrible doubts.")

Coincidentally, it goes equally perfectly with that "masterpiece" of pretentious, brain-suckingly empty deepities, Tarkovsky's Stalker, the main take from which (after a whole bunch of nothing and pseudo-philosophical mumbo-jumbo (because I'm such a fan of "real" philosophical mumbo-jumbo, you know Dodgy ) is this gem at the end, the deepest, most philosophicalest punch of them all:

"You can't even imagine how tired I am! God only knows! Calling themselves intellectuals, those writers and scientists! They don't believe in anything! They've got the organ with which one believes atrophied for lack of use. Oh God, what people..."

"Calm down, it's not their fault. You ought to pity them, not to be angry with them."

"Haven't you seen them? They've got empty eyes. The only thing they can think about is how to sell themselves not too cheap! How to get as much as possible for their every emotional movement! They know they were "born for a purpose", "called upon"! After all, they live "only once"! Can people like that believe in anything? And nobody believes. Not only those two. Nobody!""



(And yeah, I've ranted about it before but god, I am *still* mad at just what utter bilge it was! The emperor is not just naked, he hasn't even discovered fire yet!)

Authoritarian theists think they have special insight into reality and things like the inner life of others that they actually are utterly and especially devoid of. I remember my 16 year old self very smugly thinking, I understand how reality works in ways most people are completely ignorant of; all I have to do is hold fast to what I know and not screw it up by listening to the sick society around me, and everything will be alright for me. I seriously thought I had this subtle insight that was closed off to others.

Long story short ... that didn't go well.

At first, as I read some of Link's posts, I thought that he was actually questioning his beliefs, and at times, I think he may in fact be. But ATM he's not covering himself in glory.

One of the few true statements I ever heard from a cleric that I agreed with was "bad theology is a hard taskmaster". What he failed to understand is that "bad" is a useless and unnecessary adjective for "theology". It's all bad.
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#56

Pascal's Mugging
[Image: f43c20f74a9c1f2899b3259895d7b367.jpg]


It is, in short, the world's oldest con game and "god" is merely the product it sells to gullible fools.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#57

Pascal's Mugging
(05-03-2020, 03:36 PM)Link Wrote: Pascal wager doesn't say to believe based on betting, although, that's how people paraphrase it.   


A distinction without a difference.

Quote:
It says live your life betting there is an afterlife and so if God must be believed in, you do everything you can do so that you discover that he exists.

When the impossible is offered, ignore it.

Quote:This means for example reading books, holy books, hanging around religious people, trying to find out the truth.

The reason you don't want to ignore this question, is that, the consequences are absolute and rewards are absolute, so you wager there is a God and try discover and know it if there is one. If there isn't one, there is no real harm in having sought to know if it exists or not.

Except that you will have wasted time and effort.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#58

Pascal's Mugging
(05-05-2020, 09:20 PM)mordant Wrote: Authoritarian theists think they have special insight into reality and things like the inner life of others that they actually are utterly and especially devoid of. I remember my 16 year old self very smugly thinking, I understand how reality works in ways most people are completely ignorant of; all I have to do is hold fast to what I know and not screw it up by listening to the sick society around me, and everything will be alright for me. I seriously thought I had this subtle insight that was closed off to others.

Long story short ... that didn't go well.

At first, as I read some of Link's posts, I thought that he was actually questioning his beliefs, and at times, I think he may in fact be. But ATM he's not covering himself in glory.

One of the few true statements I ever heard from a cleric that I agreed with was "bad theology is a hard taskmaster". What he failed to understand is that "bad" is a useless and unnecessary adjective for "theology". It's all bad.

I guess what you described can be applied to most (or at least a lot of) teens, the idea that you know SO. VERY. MUCH. And it's so deep and no one else (well, maybe except other teens) can possibly have this profound an understanding of everything.

But I guess having fundamentalist leanings does make one smugger than most.

Me, I was a self-taught religionist and didn't really talk about it with others (I think I was a bit embarrassed, actually, even back then Blush )

As for the doubt part... it's just my (not so superior ;-)) understanding, that people who are truly convinced of what they believe, don't have this need to go and forcefully preach at others. I mean, some obviously do, but a lot of people who come to places like this to preach at atheists, do it at least partially to convince themselves and silence the doubts. Or maybe they see themselves as some sort of warriors for god or god (haha) knows what... I might be wrong, of course...
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#59

Pascal's Mugging
(05-03-2020, 04:22 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 04:18 PM)Link Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 04:17 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Did you find time to plumb the depths of aslkfj = alksdjfilkasd?   Why not?


I don't know what you mean.

I'm telling you that the equation above is profound and meaningful and is the ultimate source of reality.  If you do not comprehend it by the time you die, you will be tortured for all eternity.  Do you not owe it to yourself to research it?

Anyone who says "tortured for all eternity" is not an atheist.
Theists disbelieve in all deities but one.  I just disbelieve in one less.
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#60

Pascal's Mugging
(05-06-2020, 06:41 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 04:22 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 04:18 PM)Link Wrote: I don't know what you mean.

I'm telling you that the equation above is profound and meaningful and is the ultimate source of reality.  If you do not comprehend it by the time you die, you will be tortured for all eternity.  Do you not owe it to yourself to research it?

Anyone who says "tortured for all eternity" is not an atheist.

Could you clarify what you mean?  I don't want to assume I understand what you're saying.
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#61

Pascal's Mugging
(05-06-2020, 05:02 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-05-2020, 09:20 PM)mordant Wrote: Authoritarian theists think they have special insight into reality and things like the inner life of others that they actually are utterly and especially devoid of. I remember my 16 year old self very smugly thinking, I understand how reality works in ways most people are completely ignorant of; all I have to do is hold fast to what I know and not screw it up by listening to the sick society around me, and everything will be alright for me. I seriously thought I had this subtle insight that was closed off to others.

Long story short ... that didn't go well.

At first, as I read some of Link's posts, I thought that he was actually questioning his beliefs, and at times, I think he may in fact be. But ATM he's not covering himself in glory.

One of the few true statements I ever heard from a cleric that I agreed with was "bad theology is a hard taskmaster". What he failed to understand is that "bad" is a useless and unnecessary adjective for "theology". It's all bad.

I guess what you described can be applied to most (or at least a lot of) teens, the idea that you know SO. VERY. MUCH. And it's so deep and no one else (well, maybe except other teens) can possibly have this profound an understanding of everything.

But I guess having fundamentalist leanings does make one smugger than most.

Me, I was a self-taught religionist and didn't really talk about it with others (I think I was a bit embarrassed, actually, even back then  Blush )

As for the doubt part... it's just my (not so superior ;-)) understanding, that people who are truly convinced of what they believe, don't have this need to go and forcefully preach at others. I mean, some obviously do, but a lot of people who come to places like this to preach at atheists, do it at least partially to convince themselves and silence the doubts. Or maybe they see themselves as some sort of warriors for god or god (haha) knows what... I might be wrong, of course...

Yes some of it was the naivete and hubris of youth, but religion was the accelerant. I think fundamentalist Christianity hopes to keep you from maturing beyond a teenage mindset, really.
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#62

Pascal's Mugging
(05-06-2020, 06:53 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-06-2020, 06:41 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 04:22 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: I'm telling you that the equation above is profound and meaningful and is the ultimate source of reality.  If you do not comprehend it by the time you die, you will be tortured for all eternity.  Do you not owe it to yourself to research it?

Anyone who says "tortured for all eternity" is not an atheist.

Could you clarify what you mean?  I don't want to assume I understand what you're saying.

Cavebear was that directed at me or to me or...what?  It takes very little imagination to think of how many ways one could say those four words in that order and be an atheist.  If that's too hard for you, tilt your head up a degree or two and there is, amazingly, a sentence by an atheist with those same four words.
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#63

Pascal's Mugging
[Image: judgement-hall-of-osiris.jpg?w=695&h=396]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#64

Pascal's Mugging
(05-09-2020, 08:30 PM)mordant Wrote: I think fundamentalist Christianity hopes to keep you from maturing beyond a teenage mindset, really.

Religion in general, really. It's the product and necessity of a humankind in its infancy. Now that we're reaching adolescence (or at least we should be) it's high time it was put away with the rest of our childish things*.

And in a time and society where people seem hell bent (pun intended) on infantilising themselves more than ever before, it's not just pathetic but rather scary.

Oh well, if we want to blindly and deliberately dumb ourselves down into extinction, it's our own funeral, I guess. Literally.


*Have always found this particular quote from the Bible beyond ironic. None as blind, of course, which, in an even more ironic twist, is actually by a religious man...
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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