Welcome to Atheist Discussion, a new community created by former members of The Thinking Atheist forum.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
#1

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
Fascism is a word that cheapened over the years but privately I still find it useful to describe things, whether in colloquial use or in accordance to one of many definitions of this phenomenon. But how you see it? Is it word that overstayed it's welcome, something best used in historical context or accurate descriptor of some of today political trends?

As I side note I sometimes see fear of labeling something fascist as if fascism should be necessary accompanied by wars, concentration camps or widespread violence. But according to Roger Griffin fascism is merely particularly sick form of nationalism, not necessarily reenactment of Italy and Germany XX century history: 
Quote:[F]ascism is best defined as a revolutionary form of nationalism, one that sets out to be a political, social and ethical revolution, welding the ‘people’ into a dynamic national community under new elites infused with heroic values. The core myth that inspires this project is that only a populist, trans-class movement of purifying, cathartic national rebirth (palingenesis) can stem the tide of decadence*
.

So what is yours take?

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition...er_Griffin
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 2 users Like Szuchow's post:
  • GenesisNemesis, epronovost
Reply
#2

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
I think this definition of fascism would put Bernie Sanders in the same camp as Hitler, which isn't accurate at all. Although I guess you could also argue that Bernie isn't arguing for new elites to replace the old elites. So maybe not.
Reply
#3

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
All such labels can apply only to segments of a society.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
Reply
#4

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 04:46 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: I think this definition of fascism would put Bernie Sanders in the same camp as Hitler, which isn't accurate at all. Although I guess you could also argue that Bernie isn't arguing for new elites to replace the old elites.

Is Sanders an nationalist calling for a national rebirth and (re)building of national community? Is he concerned with nation falling into a decadence from which only metaphorical rebirth can save it? Does he argue for embrace of heroic values?

I don't see how run of the mill social democrat who isn't advocating some utopian* things could end in the same camp as Hitler, who whatever else can be said about him really was a revolutionary (and not a socialist but a man concerned with well-being of national community of healthy and right thinking "aryans").

I think that this definition allows for clear delineation between politicians who want to change things, even radically and ideologues obsessed with alleged moral fall of the nation. I can't see how Sanders fall under this definition.


*This is how I see Sanders from what little info I have.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 2 users Like Szuchow's post:
  • GenesisNemesis, Deesse23
Reply
#5

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 04:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote: ]

Is Sanders an nationalist calling for a national rebirth and building of national community? Is he concerned with nation falling into a decadence from which only metaphorical rebirth can save it?

I don't see how run of the mill social democrat who isn't advocating some utopian* things could end in the same camp as Hitler, who whatever else can be said about him really was a revolutionary (and not a socialist but a man concerned with wellbeing of national community of healthy and right thinking "aryans").


*This is how I see Sanders from what little info I have.

Yes, that's true. I guess my comment was dumb.  Tongue
Reply
#6

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 05:01 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 04:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote: ]

Is Sanders an nationalist calling for a national rebirth and building of national community? Is he concerned with nation falling into a decadence from which only metaphorical rebirth can save it?

I don't see how run of the mill social democrat who isn't advocating some utopian* things could end in the same camp as Hitler, who whatever else can be said about him really was a revolutionary (and not a socialist but a man concerned with wellbeing of national community of healthy and right thinking "aryans").


*This is how I see Sanders from what little info I have.

Yes, that's true. I guess my comment was dumb.  Tongue

Everyone makes mistakes. Except for Comrade Lenin and his bellowed cat (may he always catch biggest mice). Tongue
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 1 user Likes Szuchow's post:
  • GenesisNemesis
Reply
#7

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
I'm not really sure how useful it is, in part because I'm not sure how much baggage I myself am loading onto the word.

In terms of American politics, I see Trump as a proto-fascist both in his messaging and his methods. Orban would seem to be a solid modern example, but I'm not so in touch with Hungarian politics that I would know for sure. Like most fascists, he and to a lesser extent Trump seem to rely upon an "other" in order to garner support.
Freedom isn't free.
The following 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post:
  • Szuchow, Deesse23
Reply
#8

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 05:35 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'm not really sure how useful it is, in part because I'm not sure how much baggage I myself am loading onto the word.

In terms of American politics, I see Trump as a proto-fascist both in his messaging and his methods. Orban would seem to be a solid modern example, but I'm not so in touch with Hungarian politics that I would know for sure. Like most fascists, he and to a lesser extent Trump seem to rely upon an "other" in order to garner support.

I see Trump mostly as clownish failure but depending on how one interpret his MAGA slogan (and whether he criticizes democrats for alleged lack of morals) I guess he could be called fascist under Griffin definition.

Orban I would classify as fascists according to snippets I catch from Polish left leaning media. Definitely fascist would be PiS with it's vision of nationalist community, with enemies and traitors everywhere. 

In the end descriptor does not matter all that much - even if accuracy in naming phenomenons is important - only fighting against it. Whether Trump or Kaczyński are fascists, authoritarian or populists they're both damaging countries they rule.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 1 user Likes Szuchow's post:
  • Thumpalumpacus
Reply
#9

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 06:17 PM)Szuchow Wrote: I see Trump mostly as clownish failure but depending on how one interpret his MAGA slogan (and whether he criticizes democrats for alleged lack of morals) I guess he could be called fascist under Griffin definition.

There's also the fact that Trump has weaponized patriotism in a way that has never been seen before in this country, which is, according to my reading, an important tactic in the fascist playbook. Trump defines disagreement with his policies as disloyalty to America.
Freedom isn't free.
The following 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post:
  • Szuchow, Deesse23
Reply
#10

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 06:21 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 06:17 PM)Szuchow Wrote: I see Trump mostly as clownish failure but depending on how one interpret his MAGA slogan (and whether he criticizes democrats for alleged lack of morals) I guess he could be called fascist under Griffin definition.

There's also the fact that Trump has weaponized patriotism in a way that has never been seen before in this country, which is, according to my reading, an important tactic in the fascist playbook. Trump defines disagreement with his policies as disloyalty to America.

Disagreement as treachery is hallmark of illiberal leaders of every stripe, just like too much emphasis put on unity. 

As for Trump I guess he can be called fascist when one will take into account what you wrote. Sadly this does not make question about how to oppose him effectively easier
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 1 user Likes Szuchow's post:
  • Thumpalumpacus
Reply
#11

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 06:31 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Sadly this does not make question about how to oppose him effectively easier

Very true, especially when the tools to oppose him have been undermined and suborned as they have here with efforts at voter-suppression and the abandonment of unbiased media.
Freedom isn't free.
The following 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post:
  • Szuchow, Deesse23
Reply
#12

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
I think that Trumpolini is pretty much there, except for #11.


http://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umber...scism.html

Quote:While Eco is firm in claiming “There was only one Nazism," he says, “the fascist game can be played in many forms, and the name of the game does not change.” Eco reduces the qualities of what he calls “Ur-Fascism, or Eternal Fascism” down to 14 “typical” features. “These features," writes the novelist and semiotician, "cannot be organized into a system; many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it.”


Mussolini and Hitler were actually soldiers.  Trumpy can't ever shake the Cadet Bonespurs label.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
The following 2 users Like Minimalist's post:
  • Szuchow, Deesse23
Reply
#13

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 06:35 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 06:31 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Sadly this does not make question about how to oppose him effectively easier

Very true, especially when the tools to oppose him have been undermined and suborned as they have here with efforts at voter-suppression and the abandonment of unbiased media.

Sometimes I think that way to oppose politicians like Trump would be beating them in their own game. Perhaps I overstate this point but left and/or liberals should know when gentle language works and when something more forceful is needed. Pro-life is microcosm of this issue I think - it allows authoritarians who are willing to risk women life for clump of cells to clothe themselves in nobility while simultaneously making their opponents into despicables. It should be other way around - it is pro choice who stand on the side of freedom and humanity whereas authoritarians, fascists or bigots should be called pro death as risk of women dying is bigger in case of birth than legal abortion*.

It's like this with other issues too - if fascist hit bellow the belt then why opponent should be sporting and not do this? Especially when it is as easy as with corrupt regimes.

*https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 2 users Like Szuchow's post:
  • Thumpalumpacus, Deesse23
Reply
#14

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
Quote:t's like this with other issues too - if fascist hit bellow the belt then why opponent should be sporting and not do this?


That thought seems to make progressives uncomfortable.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
Reply
#15

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 06:53 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:t's like this with other issues too - if fascist hit bellow the belt then why opponent should be sporting and not do this?


That thought seems to make progressives uncomfortable.

In here it is centrists and liberals who are uncomfortable with turning enemy weapon on him being too pussfied or too happy with  de facto fascist rule. I don't give a shit about such niceties - if ruling fascists call for ethnic cleansing* then why by the dog almighty I should be nice?


*http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=3067
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 3 users Like Szuchow's post:
  • Minimalist, Thumpalumpacus, Deesse23
Reply
#16

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 06:50 PM)Szuchow Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 06:35 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 06:31 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Sadly this does not make question about how to oppose him effectively easier

Very true, especially when the tools to oppose him have been undermined and suborned as they have here with efforts at voter-suppression and the abandonment of unbiased media.

Sometimes I think that way to oppose politicians like Trump would be beating them in their own game. Perhaps I overstate this point but left and/or liberals should know when gentle language works and when something more forceful is needed. Pro-life is microcosm of this issue I think - it allows authoritarians who are willing to risk women life for clump of cells to clothe themselves in nobility while simultaneously making their opponents into despicables. It should be other way around - it is pro choice who stand on the side of freedom and humanity whereas authoritarians, fascists or bigots should be called pro death as risk of women dying is bigger in case of birth than legal abortion*.

It's like this with other issues too - if fascist hit bellow the belt then why opponent should be sporting and not do this? Especially when it is as easy as with corrupt regimes.

*https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271

I agree that in some instances, reasoned debate is wasted words. There should always be reason behind one's points, but there are times when you gotta pull off the glove and go bare-knuckle.
Freedom isn't free.
The following 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post:
  • Szuchow, Deesse23
Reply
#17

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 08:02 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 06:50 PM)Szuchow Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 06:35 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Very true, especially when the tools to oppose him have been undermined and suborned as they have here with efforts at voter-suppression and the abandonment of unbiased media.

Sometimes I think that way to oppose politicians like Trump would be beating them in their own game. Perhaps I overstate this point but left and/or liberals should know when gentle language works and when something more forceful is needed. Pro-life is microcosm of this issue I think - it allows authoritarians who are willing to risk women life for clump of cells to clothe themselves in nobility while simultaneously making their opponents into despicables. It should be other way around - it is pro choice who stand on the side of freedom and humanity whereas authoritarians, fascists or bigots should be called pro death as risk of women dying is bigger in case of birth than legal abortion*.

It's like this with other issues too - if fascist hit bellow the belt then why opponent should be sporting and not do this? Especially when it is as easy as with corrupt regimes.

*https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271

I agree that in some instances, reasoned debate is wasted words. There should always be reason behind one's points, but there are times when you gotta pull off the glove and go bare-knuckle.

If only more politicians would understand it. Or perhaps they do understand it but prefer not to do anything? Time and time again I suspect that majority of opposition wants PiS in power as they still get the cash, power and virtue points for some weak ass criticism while not being responsible for ruling. 

I wonder if issue in USA might be the same?
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Reply
#18

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 08:09 PM)Szuchow Wrote: I wonder if issue in USA might be the same?

It may be. Or it may be that they cannot bring themselves to accept a mode of behavior they aren't comfortable with.
Freedom isn't free.
The following 1 user Likes Thumpalumpacus's post:
  • Szuchow
Reply
#19

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 08:26 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 08:09 PM)Szuchow Wrote: I wonder if issue in USA might be the same?

It may be. Or it may be that they cannot bring themselves to accept a mode of behavior they aren't comfortable with.

It's possible I guess but at least in Poland opposition hardly can call itself more moral. It merely despises other people than ruling nationalist without even noticing that it was their own policy that pushed people to voting for anyone who will even pretend to care about their welfare.

Also having morals and taking stands is all well and good when genuine but for me it looks far more like a cowardice and complacency under the guise of righteousness rather than true ethical concerns when it comes from people forming Poland opposition. 

When your opponent fantasize about ethnic cleansing it is time to get dirty too and make metaphorical rope to hang fascist on.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Reply
#20

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 08:34 PM)Szuchow Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 08:26 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 08:09 PM)Szuchow Wrote: I wonder if issue in USA might be the same?

It may be. Or it may be that they cannot bring themselves to accept a mode of behavior they aren't comfortable with.

It's possible I guess but at least in Poland opposition hardly can call itself more moral. It merely despises other people than ruling nationalist without even noticing that it was their own policy that pushed people to voting for anyone who will even pretend to care about their welfare.

There's a lot of that here. @mordant has made a point of that, and it's apt -- that the politicians who laid fertile ground for Trump's proto-fascism have some blame for our current mess. I don't have a great answer to that other than saying that going back, doing a failure analysis, and fixing the things that went wrong seems to me more reasonable. And I imagine defensiveness over their share of the blame probably informs the positions of Trump opponents -- because it would require them to acknowledge some of the blame themselves.

(04-10-2020, 08:34 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Also having morals and taking stands is all well and good when genuine but for me it looks far more like a cowardice and complacency under the guise of righteousness rather than true ethical concerns when it comes from people forming Poland opposition. 

When your opponent fantasize about ethnic cleansing it is time to get dirty too and make metaphorical rope to hang fascist on.

Agreed. Valuing the "high road" over the effective road is not a good way to win a lot of fights. I've been in some serious scraps in my life, physical scraps, including one where my life was literally at stake. I know that for myself, my resistance to killing another person was lessened. Thankfully it didn't come to that, but there are times when one realizes that the struggle is in fact existential, and that clinging to ideals can be self-defeating. M'boy didn't give up his fight until I beat him within an inch of his life, and I did things I knew might maim or kill him had events worked out differently.

There's a point when "dirty fighting" is simply fighting for life.
Freedom isn't free.
The following 3 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post:
  • Szuchow, Dānu, Deesse23
Reply
#21

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 08:52 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: There's a lot of that here. @mordant has made a point of that, and it's apt -- that the politicians who laid fertile ground for Trump's proto-fascism have some blame for our current mess. I don't have a great answer to that other than saying that going back, doing a failure analysis, and fixing the things that went wrong seems to me more reasonable. And I imagine defensiveness over their share of the blame probably informs the positions of Trump opponents -- because it would require them to acknowledge some of the blame themselves.

It is the same crap here. Total inability to acknowledge that one fucked up and even doubling down on idiotic mistakes. It is one thing to call spade a spade or fascist a fascist but quite another to demean group of people that chose welfare over alleged rule of law.

(04-10-2020, 08:52 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 08:34 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Also having morals and taking stands is all well and good when genuine but for me it looks far more like a cowardice and complacency under the guise of righteousness rather than true ethical concerns when it comes from people forming Poland opposition. 

When your opponent fantasize about ethnic cleansing it is time to get dirty too and make metaphorical rope to hang fascist on.

Agreed. Valuing the "high road" over the effective road is not a good way to win a lot of fights. I've been in some serious scraps in my life, physical scraps, including one where my life was literally at stake. I know that for myself, my resistance to killing another person was lessened. Thankfully it didn't come to that, but there are times when one realizes that the struggle is in fact existential, and  that clinging to ideals can be self-defeating. M'boy didn't give up his fight until I beat him within an inch of his life, and I did things I knew might maim or kill him had events worked out differently.

There's a point when "dirty fighting" is simply fighting for life.

I would argue for high road (as in politicians having vision they follow, not being cardboard figures changing opinion every poll) coupled with effective use of language and management of public anger. There is no reason for which non-authoritarian politicians should speak like wimps. If your fascist opponent chose to give 2 billions PLN to propaganda instead of cancer therapy* call him killer, not waste such opportunity with weak ass condemnations.

As for physical fights I count myself lucky  as worst long term result is tiny and practically invisible scar over my eyebrow from being hit with bastard sword. But I do understand analogy and find it apt.

*it really happened some time back, sadly not imagined example.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
The following 1 user Likes Szuchow's post:
  • Thumpalumpacus
Reply
#22

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 09:22 PM)Szuchow Wrote: I would argue for high road (as in politicians having vision they follow, not being cardboard figures changing opinion every poll) coupled with effective use of language and management of public anger. There is no reason for which non-authoritarian politicians should speak like wimps. If your fascist opponent chose to give 2 billions PLN to propaganda instead of cancer therapy* call him killer, not waste such opportunity with weak ass condemnations.

I certainly agree. Decorum is needed when we're discussing divisive issues (on the assumption that our speech is designed to convince and not to castigate), but there are times when bullshit needs to simply be called as bullshit.

The art of politics is in some measure the ability to discern when to use mollifying speech, and when to open the ammunition-train for the heavy guns. There are times when open arms and welcoming opponents is good. There are also times when lining up one's howitzers and scheduling a time-on-target is needed. Understanding the difference between the two times is what differentiates a talented politician from a hack or a demagogue.
Freedom isn't free.
The following 1 user Likes Thumpalumpacus's post:
  • Szuchow
Reply
#23

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 04:05 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Fascism is a word that cheapened over the years but privately I still find it useful to describe things, whether in colloquial use or in accordance to one of many definitions of this phenomenon. But how you see it? Is it word that overstayed it's welcome, something best used in historical context or accurate descriptor of some of today political trends?

As I side note I sometimes see fear of labeling something fascist as if fascism should be necessary accompanied by wars, concentration camps or widespread violence. But according to Roger Griffin fascism is merely particularly sick form of nationalism, not necessarily reenactment of Italy and Germany XX century history: 
Quote:[F]ascism is best defined as a revolutionary form of nationalism, one that sets out to be a political, social and ethical revolution, welding the ‘people’ into a dynamic national community under new elites infused with heroic values. The core myth that inspires this project is that only a populist, trans-class movement of purifying, cathartic national rebirth (palingenesis) can stem the tide of decadence*
.

So what is yours take?

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition...er_Griffin

I think there are individual fascists working in our political system today. Trump is a fascist. His disdain for a free press and his love affair with brutal dictators makes this fact transparent. But our political system is not fascist yet. Some times I think U.S. citizens have lost their taste for freedom and wish for an authoritarian system as long as it reflects their personal agenda.
Trump is so convinced that everything is about him he has convinced his followers that everything is about him.
The following 1 user Likes Chimp3's post:
  • Thumpalumpacus
Reply
#24

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 04:05 PM)Szuchow Wrote: Fascism is a word that cheapened over the years but privately I still find it useful to describe things, whether in colloquial use or in accordance to one of many definitions of this phenomenon. But how you see it? Is it word that overstayed it's welcome, something best used in historical context or accurate descriptor of some of today political trends?

As I side note I sometimes see fear of labeling something fascist as if fascism should be necessary accompanied by wars, concentration camps or widespread violence. But according to Roger Griffin fascism is merely particularly sick form of nationalism, not necessarily reenactment of Italy and Germany XX century history: 
Quote:[F]ascism is best defined as a revolutionary form of nationalism, one that sets out to be a political, social and ethical revolution, welding the ‘people’ into a dynamic national community under new elites infused with heroic values. The core myth that inspires this project is that only a populist, trans-class movement of purifying, cathartic national rebirth (palingenesis) can stem the tide of decadence*
.

So what is yours take?

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition...er_Griffin

The Doctrine Of Fascism 1932
Mussolini

Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism,
both in the political and the economic sphere.

One quote that explains why anti-liberal politics gets labeled as fascism.
Plunk your magic twanger Froggy!   Boinnnnnng!  Hiya Kids!  Hiya! Hiya!



The following 1 user Likes Cheerful Charlie's post:
  • Thumpalumpacus
Reply
#25

Is fascism useful descriptor for modern political landscape?
(04-10-2020, 06:21 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2020, 06:17 PM)Szuchow Wrote: I see Trump mostly as clownish failure but depending on how one interpret his MAGA slogan (and whether he criticizes democrats for alleged lack of morals) I guess he could be called fascist under Griffin definition.

There's also the fact that Trump has weaponized patriotism in a way that has never been seen before in this country, which is, according to my reading, an important tactic in the fascist playbook. Trump defines disagreement with his policies as disloyalty to America.

Firstoff, i think the definition given by Comrade Cat is very good, not perfect but good. Do i see fasicm today? No, but strong tendencies in numerous countries, with rising numbers.
Regarding Thumps comment i want to point out that there is another angle to this: Not only is anyone who disaggrees with the fascist disloyal (a traitor) to his country, but fascists tend to claim to be the only group to represent the will of the people. Anyone else, per definitionem, does not and canot be a representant of "we, the people". This is something one also finds with the MAGA movement and why i think it has fascist tendencies.
R.I.P. Hannes
The following 1 user Likes Deesse23's post:
  • Thumpalumpacus
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)