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Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
#1

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-g...18350.html

...
As church services go viral and newsletters promising of God’s goodness throughout this tragedy populate inboxes, questions about whether God created coronavirus – or if it’s God’s will for the virus to flourish or if it was sent as some sort of punishment – abound. Many faith leaders say this is not a punishment, and they challenge their followers to find God even in suffering.
...
A Christian theologian, author and teacher at Northwest Nazarene University in Nampa, Idaho, Oord has been busy the past few weeks giving guest sermons via the videoconferencing app Zoom as he tries to answer the question “If God is good, then why does the coronavirus exist?”
There are, he says, a lot of bad answers to that question. When he preaches, Oord explains that there are two types of evils: moral evils, such as murder, and natural evils, such as hurricanes, tornadoes or in this case, the coronavirus. People often respond in one of three ways.
First, there’s the group that says God is “angry about sin or gays and lesbians or whatever,” Oord says, and he’s using a natural evil to punish the world. Oord rejects that view because “God is a god of love, he’s not in the business of doing evil.”
...


Lots of questions will be asked and not a lot of good answers will be given.  Is this just one of God's little pranks?  Or is the Universe merely a godless one, where biology does mindless but ugly things?  Will this all have long term effects for religion, as people wonder why God does these things, or allows them?  Will the religious, going to churches, mosques, synagogues et al, and spreading this virus being doing damage to the reputation of religion, long term?  Will this in retrospective, be a teaching moment for civilization?
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#2

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
One cannot teach, those who refuse to be taught.
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#3

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
"Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."
- Benjamin Franklin
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#4

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
"God is a kid with an ant farm." (Constantine)
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#5

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
... so when all these priests and other religious arrive at their theodicies, will they also arrive at a coherent explanation for why everyone has a different theodicy?
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov
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#6

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
At the base of it, all religious people lie to themselves about God. With that going on there's no end to the other lies they will accept.
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#7

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
I'm already hearing "they're in a better place now" and "god called him/her home".

The religious can rationalize/justify anything.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#8

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
God wasn't concerned with Black Death, Mongol invasions, 30 years war, Holocaust or Great Leap Forward. Compared to this coronavirus merely means that god would be a little mischievous if such being were to exist.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#9

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
"He who made kittens / put snakes in the grass ..."
Freedom isn't free.
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#10

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
One of my cousins claimed that God was taking away all the things we worshiped, stuff like athletes and movie stars. I've never seen such a clear case of Stockholm syndrome.
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#11

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
God is a dick.... or god doesn't exist.  Take your pick.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#12

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-03-2020, 03:37 PM)isbelldl Wrote: One of my cousins claimed that God was taking away all the things we worshiped, stuff like athletes and movie stars. I've never seen such a clear case of Stockholm syndrome.

Then God mistakes entertainment for worship.  Or perhaps God wants us to be so miserable that we think religion is entertaining.
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#13

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
It will be tragic, but interesting, to see how many of these churches that ignore the stay-at-home orders get decimated by COVID-19.
"Aliens?  Us?  Is this one of your Earth jokes?"  -- Kro-Bar, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
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#14

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-03-2020, 03:37 PM)isbelldl Wrote: One of my cousins claimed that God was taking away all the things we worshiped, stuff like athletes and movie stars. I've never seen such a clear case of Stockholm syndrome.

"Things"? Huh
Facepalm
R.I.P. Hannes
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#15

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-03-2020, 04:20 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 03:37 PM)isbelldl Wrote: One of my cousins claimed that God was taking away all the things we worshiped, stuff like athletes and movie stars. I've never seen such a clear case of Stockholm syndrome.

"Things"?  Huh
Facepalm
Implying that we worship false idols. This your first time?
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#16

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
Quote:Implying that we worship false idols.

When you think about it that is really amusing coming from a group of jackasses who worship an invisible man in the sky!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#17

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-03-2020, 05:23 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Will this all have long term effects for religion, as people wonder why God does these things, or allows them?

No.

It will peel a few people off, or perhaps even quite a few, but not enough to matter. In part because it will also drive some people INTO the arms of religion. In times of fear and pain, some people can sometimes find at least temporary refuge in the faux clarity of someone telling you want to think / believe / do.

(04-03-2020, 05:23 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Will the religious, going to churches, mosques, synagogues et al, and spreading this virus being doing damage to the reputation of religion, long term?

Not long term, for most people. It will give some short term pause, and it might have the effect of making it less likely for a generation or less for houses of worship to make the same mistake again. But many will not connect the dots, or will style it as a horrible tragedy that will strengthen rather than weaken people's dependence on the collective. They will circle the wagons, in other words.

(04-03-2020, 05:23 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Will this in retrospective, be a teaching moment for civilization?

You're kidding, right?
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#18

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-04-2020, 02:52 AM)mordant Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 05:23 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Will this in retrospective, be a teaching moment for civilization?

You're kidding, right?

Rocky shores are evidently eroded by waves. No one wave clears everything. But teaching moments can undercut faith and make a difference.
Freedom isn't free.
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#19

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-04-2020, 02:52 AM)mordant Wrote:
(04-03-2020, 05:23 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Will this in retrospective, be a teaching moment for civilization?

You're kidding, right?

Of course we will learn, but just not all of us.
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#20

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
Sometimes, these things have an effect on theology and religion. The Lisbon earthquake of 1755 caused various problems for theodicy and helped usher in religious skepticism for many intelligentsia in following years. If we end up with eventually getting effective vaccines, while our ignorant religionists and their churches become major disease vectors. we might see some acceleration in our population to more Nones and despising ignorant fundamentalism and toxic Christianity. This will take years, even decades to work out however it does in fact change minds about religion.
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#21

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-04-2020, 01:09 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Sometimes, these things have an effect on theology and religion.  The Lisbon earthquake of 1755 caused various problems for theodicy and helped usher in religious skepticism for many intelligentsia in following years.  If we end up with eventually getting effective vaccines, while our ignorant religionists and their churches become major disease vectors. we might see some acceleration in our population to more Nones and despising ignorant fundamentalism and toxic Christianity.  This will take years, even decades to work out however it does in fact change minds about religion.

The center moves, but you can never make it disappear.
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#22

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-03-2020, 05:23 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-g...18350.html

...
As church services go viral and newsletters promising of God’s goodness throughout this tragedy populate inboxes, questions about whether God created coronavirus – or if it’s God’s will for the virus to flourish or if it was sent as some sort of punishment – abound. Many faith leaders say this is not a punishment, and they challenge their followers to find God even in suffering.
...
A Christian theologian, author and teacher at Northwest Nazarene University in Nampa, Idaho, Oord has been busy the past few weeks giving guest sermons via the videoconferencing app Zoom as he tries to answer the question “If God is good, then why does the coronavirus exist?”
There are, he says, a lot of bad answers to that question. When he preaches, Oord explains that there are two types of evils: moral evils, such as murder, and natural evils, such as hurricanes, tornadoes or in this case, the coronavirus. People often respond in one of three ways.
First, there’s the group that says God is “angry about sin or gays and lesbians or whatever,” Oord says, and he’s using a natural evil to punish the world. Oord rejects that view because “God is a god of love, he’s not in the business of doing evil.”
...


Lots of questions will be asked and not a lot of good answers will be given.  Is this just one of God's little pranks?  Or is the Universe merely a godless one, where biology does mindless but ugly things?  Will this all have long term effects for religion, as people wonder why God does these things, or allows them?  Will the religious, going to churches, mosques, synagogues et al, and spreading this virus being doing damage to the reputation of religion, long term?  Will this in retrospective, be a teaching moment for civilization?

They're in it for the money. 
Out of one side of their mouths they claim to know why things happen, 
out of the other, they say that no one can know. 

At least they admit, in light of their beligions, what they observe makes no sense at all. 
And then they turn around and say human logic proves their particular god(s) are the correct ones. 

Isaiah 55:8-9
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Job 36:26
"Behold, God is exalted, and we do not know Him; The number of His years is unsearchable.


Deuteronomy 29:29
"The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.


Job 5:9
Who does great and unsearchable things, Wonders without number.

Job 11:7
"Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?


Job 36:22-23
"Behold, God is exalted in His power; Who is a teacher like Him? "Who has appointed Him His way, And who has said, 'You have done wrong'?


Psalm 139:1-6
O LORD, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar. You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.read more.


Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.


Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired His understanding is inscrutable.


Romans 11:33-34
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?


1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
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#23

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
[Image: 00virus-triage-articleLarge-v2.jpg?quali...le=upscale]



Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)

 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
                                                         T4618
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#24

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-04-2020, 03:58 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: [Image: 00virus-triage-articleLarge-v2.jpg?quali...le=upscale]



Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)

 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

No offense, but from what little I've read, 'evil' may not be the best translation.
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#25

Problem Of Evil and Covid-19
(04-04-2020, 04:03 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(04-04-2020, 03:58 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: [Image: 00virus-triage-articleLarge-v2.jpg?quali...le=upscale]



Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)

 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

No offense, but from what little I've read, 'evil' may not be the best translation.

Sometimes it's translated as "chaos" which is an apt desciption of our current situation.  Gee, thanks god for creating all this fun chaos.    Angry

I think the original Hebrew was "evil" however the evangelicals have opted for "chaos" to take the blame off of their god .
                                                         T4618
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