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Theistic rants.

Theistic rants.
(03-23-2020, 12:25 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 06:26 AM)brunumb Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 05:52 PM)Link Wrote: The degree of power is such that no reasonable Creator would give to a normal person, but only to his chosen trustees.

How on earth does anyone know what a reasonable creator is and what he would give to a normal person?  You are just blowing smoke out of your arse.

The power of miracles are enough prove they are generated from a super natural Creator.  It's obvious if not an idiot he trusts this performer of miracles and would not be giving that person that degree of power directly from him, if he had potential to be evil.

Allah leads who he will lead, and leads astray who he will lead astray.  So saith the Quran.  The suras that tell us we have no free will and do what Allah ordains we will do or won't do makes the claims that the Quran is a revelation from a merciful and compassionate Allah so much nonsense.  Miracles are not a big deal in the Quran, they are not held up as being proof of anything like they are in the New Testament.  And if Allah leads some astray as per Quran, miracles are pointless any way.

Moslem thinkers have been debating qadar among themselves for centuries.  For us atheists who are well aware of this, it isn't very inspiring and doesn't have the aura of truth.
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Theistic rants.
Cheerful Charlie, you are shifting the topic. But there is a letter from Imam Ali Al-Hadi (a) (10th Successor) about those verses and free-will. I will post it if I find a translation of it online. I've read it a long time ago.
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Theistic rants.
(03-23-2020, 12:55 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Moslem thinkers have been debating qadar among themselves for centuries. 

Ignore them, go to the family of the reminder, and see their explanation of Quran. They are the true authority regarding it.
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Theistic rants.
(03-23-2020, 12:19 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 03:19 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:57 PM)Link Wrote: It's saying without miracles in the open,  religion(s) can't be proven as decisively.  From the perspective of people who believe in miracles, something has gone haywire and wrong in history.

You're onto something here but you're chasing it in the wrong direction.

If there ever were miracles then why was there ever anything other than One True Religion™?

We know that there wasn't. The historical and archeological record are a complete hodge podge of thousands of different religions. If any one of them had ever been capable of true miracles then the others simply shouldn't exist.
Thank you for being on topic (unlike the rest), but you assume too well of humans.  Per Quran, they accused the truth when it came to them of being sorcery.

That seems unlikely. Even your average neolithic savage can appreciate the degree of difficulty needed to part the seas. The simpler explanation is that here never were miracles. That's unsurprising seeing how every religion claims to have them.

More importantly, many of the miracle stories simply aren't believable. I'm not talking about the miracles themselves but the way that people reacted to them. Ancient peoples were much more superstitious in ways that are difficult for the modern world to grasp. One of the basic principles was that you just did not go against the gods! It was a very quick way to end very, very badly. Yet in just about every miracle story you have exactly that.
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Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

It's a catastrophe of all catastrophes, that it's been a thousand years, without a Guide in the open, so to as to provide these miracles on behalf of God and to prove the right religion. Confusion is expected in these dark times whence only some of truth seekers can find their way. The Torah to the Gospels and books between also known as Tanakh or Torah depending on context, are clear miracles are important.

The message clarifies why miracles are proof. The holy books talk about miracles as proofs. Without miracles, truth is not as strong, and the religion state becomes weak.  

May God hasten the time when miracles return in the open and may it be to the whole world and may we not accuse the Messenger this time of being a sorcerer.

You're shit outta luck, and if Jesus read what you wrote he would roll over in his grave.

If your God exists, he's failing to do one very important thing. He needs to resurrect Ronald Reagan from the dead, and have him march into the White House and kick the ever lovin' shit out of Donald Trump.

Then we can talk.
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Theistic rants.
Quote:It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God. Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery. And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

Your desperation is showing. You're in the final throes of religionism, and falling into atheism.
Jesus said only a wicked and adulterous generation needs a sign.

Too bad. So sad.
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Theistic rants.
Quote:The power of miracles are enough prove they are generated from a super natural Creator.


If only you had evidence of said miracles instead of the delusional ramblings of primitive assholes.  But you don't.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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