Welcome to Atheist Discussion, a new community created by former members of The Thinking Atheist forum.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Theistic rants.
#1

Theistic rants.
The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

It's a catastrophe of all catastrophes, that it's been a thousand years, without a Guide in the open, so to as to provide these miracles on behalf of God and to prove the right religion. Confusion is expected in these dark times whence only some of truth seekers can find their way. The Torah to the Gospels and books between also known as Tanakh or Torah depending on context, are clear miracles are important.

The message clarifies why miracles are proof. The holy books talk about miracles as proofs. Without miracles, truth is not as strong, and the religion state becomes weak.  

May God hasten the time when miracles return in the open and may it be to the whole world and may we not accuse the Messenger this time of being a sorcerer.
Reply
#2

Theistic rants.
Just exactly how would you recognize a miracle?

Something you personally can't explain?  Your own ignorance does not mean what you've experienced was therefore a miracle.

Something others apparently can't explain?  10,000 years ago no one could correctly explain the sun rising every day.  That didn't make it a miracle.  Much of the universe and our own planet are not yet understood.  Again, ignorance does not make something a miracle.

As a matter of logic, identifying whether something is a miracle or not is impossible.  To do so would require knowing everything there is to know in order to be able to eliminate all possible natural explanation.  Attaining that completeness of knowledge is impossible, even by developing means of building a fund of knowledge that surpasses human lifetime.

Keep in mind that so far, throughout all of science, it has never been necessary to even hypothesize that something freshly discovered could only have been a miracle.  All that remains as yet unknown are simply unknowns, explanation forthcoming at some later time.

Indicating that something is a miracle only marks you as so ignorant you don't even recognize your own ignorance.
Reply
#3

Theistic rants.
Jesus Christ. What has your post to do with what I'm talking about?

A miracle is when a person does something of such power and supernatural control over nature, it's proven the person is trusted by God and directly sustained by him.

It's proven it's not Demonic forces or Aliens or anything like that. For example, the successor of Solomon which was Elijah, brought the whole throne of Balqis in a twinkle of an eye. Warped it. Such power is only trusted to God's trustees. While the strong Jinn might've brought within 8-12 hours, the power the successor of Solomon had, was something else. It's directly sustained by God and is a grace and favor from God. If Solomon or his successor start believing they generate the power, they would become disbelievers and perish.
Reply
#4

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

I don't believe in miracles or magic. Do you have any evidence that either has ever happened? Aside from what's written in scripture?
Reply
#5

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:42 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

I don't believe in miracles or magic. Do you have any evidence that either has ever happened? Aside from what's written in scripture?

Bro, what I'm saying is, it's a catastrophe that these miracles are not in the open now.  When they aren't in the open the true religion becomes hidden and no longer proven clearly.
Reply
#6

Theistic rants.
The rant doesn't need you to believe in miracles to make sense.
Reply
#7

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

It's a catastrophe of all catastrophes, that it's been a thousand years, without a Guide in the open, so to as to provide these miracles on behalf of God and to prove the right religion. Confusion is expected in these dark times whence only some of truth seekers can find their way. The Torah to the Gospels and books between also known as Tanakh or Torah depending on context, are clear miracles are important.

The message clarifies why miracles are proof. The holy books talk about miracles as proofs. Without miracles, truth is not as strong, and the religion state becomes weak.  

May God hasten the time when miracles return in the open and may it be to the whole world and may we not accuse the Messenger this time of being a sorcerer.

What is a miracle?

How would you or they determine that something is or was a miracle?
[Image: afo-sig-009%20copy.jpg]
Reply
#8

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:48 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:42 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

I don't believe in miracles or magic. Do you have any evidence that either has ever happened? Aside from what's written in scripture?

Bro, what I'm saying is, it's a catastrophe that these miracles are not in the open now.  When they aren't in the open the true religion becomes hidden and no longer proven clearly.

Since when there is such thing as true religion?  ROFL2
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.

Socrates.
Reply
#9

Theistic rants.
We get that you have faith. We heard you the first few times. None of this latest message resonates with me in any way.
Reply
#10

Theistic rants.
It's saying without miracles in the open, religion(s) can't be proven as decisively. From the perspective of people who believe in miracles, something has gone haywire and wrong in history.
Reply
#11

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:50 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

It's a catastrophe of all catastrophes, that it's been a thousand years, without a Guide in the open, so to as to provide these miracles on behalf of God and to prove the right religion. Confusion is expected in these dark times whence only some of truth seekers can find their way. The Torah to the Gospels and books between also known as Tanakh or Torah depending on context, are clear miracles are important.

The message clarifies why miracles are proof. The holy books talk about miracles as proofs. Without miracles, truth is not as strong, and the religion state becomes weak.  

May God hasten the time when miracles return in the open and may it be to the whole world and may we not accuse the Messenger this time of being a sorcerer.

What is a miracle?

How would you or they determine that something is or was a miracle?

When the power is so strong, that it's proven God directly sustains and trusts that person.
Reply
#12

Theistic rants.
I saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear.

I've been a Davidian ever since.

Waco was not our fault. Aggravated
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
Reply
#13

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

It's a catastrophe of all catastrophes, that it's been a thousand years, without a Guide in the open, so to as to provide these miracles on behalf of God and to prove the right religion. Confusion is expected in these dark times whence only some of truth seekers can find their way. The Torah to the Gospels and books between also known as Tanakh or Torah depending on context, are clear miracles are important.

The message clarifies why miracles are proof. The holy books talk about miracles as proofs. Without miracles, truth is not as strong, and the religion state becomes weak.  

May God hasten the time when miracles return in the open and may it be to the whole world and may we not accuse the Messenger this time of being a sorcerer.

The problem is the 'writings' are full of miracles that are pure lies.  Archaeology has now demonstrated for example, that the tall tales of the Egyptian captivity, the exodus, and conquest of Canaan are total fantasy.  Along with the supposed miracles we read in these faux histories.  The four utterly irreconcilable gospel tall tales of the resurrection of Jesus are obviously false.  Along with their attendant miracles.  And thus all miracles of the Bible are questionable since we know the writers lie and are untrustworthy.
Talking snakes, talking donkeys, Noah's flood et al are baloney.  Failed prophecies and more.

Today's crop of lying TV evangelists and faith healers with their fake miracles call the whole miracle nonsense into question.
Salah!
“Common sense is not a gift, it’s a punishment. Because you have to deal with everyone who doesn’t have it.”
- George Bernard Shaw



The following 2 users Like Cheerful Charlie's post:
  • Dancefortwo, brunumb
Reply
#14

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:23 PM)Link Wrote: Jesus Christ. What has your post to do with what I'm talking about?

Everything.  That you can't see that indicates to me you don't even understand your own meanderings.

You carry on about how important miracles are as a means of identifying someone's channeling a god's power, but you don't define what distinguishes a miracle from a natural phenomenon.  It's not a matter of someone doing something you can only ascribe to either magic or superpower because YOU are not sufficiently knowledgeable to understand it.  YOU are not the only person on this planet; others exist here too, and among them are MANY whose knowledge eclipses yours enough to see that something YOU think is miraculous is in fact ordinary and fully understood, just not by YOU.

One of religion's most profound failings is its inculcation of personal interpretation of experience as being intrinsically correct and discourages corroboration and discovery.  As an engine for truth religion is not just ineffective but is one of truth's most powerful obscurants.
Reply
#15

Theistic rants.
Miracles are a proof because the power is such that's in uniquely given to those who he trusts.
Reply
#16

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:23 PM)Link Wrote: Jesus Christ. What has your post to do with what I'm talking about?

A miracle is when a person does something of such power and supernatural control over nature,  it's proven the person is trusted by God and directly sustained by him.

It's proven it's not Demonic forces or Aliens or anything like that. For example, the successor of Solomon which was Elijah, brought the whole throne of Balqis in a twinkle of an eye.  Warped it.  Such power is only trusted to God's trustees. While the strong Jinn might've brought within 8-12 hours,  the power the successor of Solomon had, was something else. It's directly sustained by God and is a grace and favor from God.  If Solomon or his successor start believing they generate the power, they would become disbelievers and perish.

There are no miracles. You have no evidence there are any miracles. 
The OT stories about Solomon are nothing but made up myths.
If something happens that one person considers miraculous (and many would not) how are they supposed to know what god did it. 
The Pharoh's man could do the snake trick too. Was *that* a miracle ? 
None of the tall tales in the Bible about a Moses have any evidence for them. They are stories. Nothing more. 
There was no united Kingdom of Israel at the time Solomon was supposed to have lived. It's a made up shit.

Sorry to see you lied, and came back. You still have nothing but bullshit.
There were many "miracle workers" running around in Israel at the time Jesus supposedly lived ... many ... if THEy were seen to working miracles, what's so special about your Jebus ?
Nope. Nice try. Fail again. Bye.
The following 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post:
  • brunumb
Reply
#17

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 05:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:23 PM)Link Wrote: Jesus Christ. What has your post to do with what I'm talking about?

A miracle is when a person does something of such power and supernatural control over nature,  it's proven the person is trusted by God and directly sustained by him.

It's proven it's not Demonic forces or Aliens or anything like that. For example, the successor of Solomon which was Elijah, brought the whole throne of Balqis in a twinkle of an eye.  Warped it.  Such power is only trusted to God's trustees. While the strong Jinn might've brought within 8-12 hours,  the power the successor of Solomon had, was something else. It's directly sustained by God and is a grace and favor from God.  If Solomon or his successor start believing they generate the power, they would become disbelievers and perish.

There are no miracles. You have no evidence there are any miracles. 
If something happens that one person considers miraculous (and many would not) how are they supposed to know what god did it. 
The Pharoh's man could do the snake trick too. Was *that* a miracle ? 
None of the tall tales in the Bible about a Moses have any evidence for them. They are stories. Nothing more. 

Sorry to see you lied, and came back. You still have nothing but bullshit.

You're not very smart. But keep acting like we all dumb and you know everything.  Contextualize what a person says for once. And stop disputing for the sake of arguing.
Reply
#18

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 05:32 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 05:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:23 PM)Link Wrote: Jesus Christ. What has your post to do with what I'm talking about?

A miracle is when a person does something of such power and supernatural control over nature,  it's proven the person is trusted by God and directly sustained by him.

It's proven it's not Demonic forces or Aliens or anything like that. For example, the successor of Solomon which was Elijah, brought the whole throne of Balqis in a twinkle of an eye.  Warped it.  Such power is only trusted to God's trustees. While the strong Jinn might've brought within 8-12 hours,  the power the successor of Solomon had, was something else. It's directly sustained by God and is a grace and favor from God.  If Solomon or his successor start believing they generate the power, they would become disbelievers and perish.

There are no miracles. You have no evidence there are any miracles. 
If something happens that one person considers miraculous (and many would not) how are they supposed to know what god did it. 
The Pharoh's man could do the snake trick too. Was *that* a miracle ? 
None of the tall tales in the Bible about a Moses have any evidence for them. They are stories. Nothing more. 

Sorry to see you lied, and came back. You still have nothing but bullshit.

You're not very smart. But keep acting like we all dumb and you know everything.  Contextualize what a person says for once. And stop disputing for the sake of arguing.

If I need any advice from the likes of you, I'll be sure and ask. 
Meanwhile ADDRESS the objections, or STFU. 
Not only do you know no history, you need EVIDENCE. Miracles are not evidence. 
Try harder. Get lost.
The following 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post:
  • Szuchow
Reply
#19

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 04:58 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:50 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:04 PM)Link Wrote: The truth was never writing no matter how sufficient of a proof it is for those who reflect on God's holy words.  It was never the message no matter how clear the conveyer was. 

It was miracles that show a power directly sustained and given by God.  Not by an Angel, not by a demon, not sorcery acquired, but something that God directly sustains and is the true doer through his trusted Messenger. The truth when it came to them was accused of being manifest sorcery.  And it was when Moses' hand emitted bright light that the truth came to Pharaoh, as the first sign was somewhat not as clear.

It's a catastrophe of all catastrophes, that it's been a thousand years, without a Guide in the open, so to as to provide these miracles on behalf of God and to prove the right religion. Confusion is expected in these dark times whence only some of truth seekers can find their way. The Torah to the Gospels and books between also known as Tanakh or Torah depending on context, are clear miracles are important.

The message clarifies why miracles are proof. The holy books talk about miracles as proofs. Without miracles, truth is not as strong, and the religion state becomes weak.  

May God hasten the time when miracles return in the open and may it be to the whole world and may we not accuse the Messenger this time of being a sorcerer.

What is a miracle?

How would you or they determine that something is or was a miracle?

When the power is so strong, that it's proven God directly sustains and trusts that person.

So then healing the sick or causing the blind to see are not miracles because they don't involve a lot of power. Neither would splitting the moon be a miracle, as we can conceivably do that through mundane methods.

How do you define 'strong'? How do you measure it? What is the minimum amount necessary to prove that God directly sustains something? Be specific.
[Image: afo-sig-009%20copy.jpg]
Reply
#20

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 05:25 PM)Link Wrote: Miracles are a proof because the power is such that's in uniquely given to those who he trusts.

How do you determine that it is unique?
[Image: afo-sig-009%20copy.jpg]
Reply
#21

Theistic rants.
And then tell us which god did it, and how did you test for which god did something.
Reply
#22

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 05:43 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 05:25 PM)Link Wrote: Miracles are a proof because the power is such that's in uniquely given to those who he trusts.

How do you determine that it is unique?

By the degree of power.
Reply
#23

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 05:43 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 05:43 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 05:25 PM)Link Wrote: Miracles are a proof because the power is such that's in uniquely given to those who he trusts.

How do you determine that it is unique?

By the degree of power.

What is a degree of power, how is it measured, and how does that make something unique? You do understand what the word unique means, do you not?
[Image: afo-sig-009%20copy.jpg]
Reply
#24

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 05:45 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 05:43 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 05:43 PM)Dānu Wrote: How do you determine that it is unique?

By the degree of power.

What is a degree of power, how is it measured, and how does that make something unique?  You do understand what the word unique means, do you not?

The degree of power is such that no reasonable Creator would give to a normal person, but only to his chosen trustees.
Reply
#25

Theistic rants.
(03-22-2020, 05:45 PM)Dānu Wrote: You do understand what the word unique means, do you not?

Unique to his chosen trustees.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)