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Door-to-door prosteletyzers
#1

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
Has anyone had people from, say, JW or LDS or the other usual suspects knocking on your door in the past week or two?

Looking for a silver lining here.
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov
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#2

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
we live on a rural road with a gate on the driveway. Last time they tried us, my wife and I waved and kept gardening. God bless our gate!
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#3

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
They don't ring.

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#4

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
Not ad that in seemingly ever. I'm visibly severely disabled, so out in public I'll run into those types. In 2004, I was stuck in a compact car for 200 miles with a family of JWs. They did pop "the question", to which I responded, "No. I'm an atheist". I guess I threw some weight behind that statement, not even meaning to. They just changed the subject.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
-Carl Sagan

"The best counter to extremist speech is not censorship. The best counter is more speech." -Thumpalumpacus
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#5

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
All we get around here is grackles and squirrels. And the occasional neighbor's cat trying to catch them.
Plunk your magic twanger Froggy!   Boinnnnnng!  Hiya Kids!  Hiya! Hiya!



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#6

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-20-2020, 06:19 PM)Reltzik Wrote: Has anyone had people from, say, JW or LDS or the other usual suspects knocking on your door in the past week or two?

Looking for a silver lining here.

Buy the sign.

[Image: 61KgorkCICL._AC_SX450_.jpg]

You might run the risk of the neighbors offing you, six of one,............
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#7

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
Nope.   We have a state by-law that legally prevents uninvited people knocking on our doors.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#8

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
There are two Kingdom Halls in my area, so Jehovah's Witnesses usually show up here twice a year. The first group come around in May and the second in August. None showed up last spring, but the August group, two men and two women, was here a few days before Labor Day. I showed them my atheist business card before they could start their spiel. One of them scrutinized it for a few seconds, then said, "You have a nice day, sir." That was the signal for them to get back in their car and leave.  Whistling
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#9

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
Shows the strength of their convictions, don't it.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#10

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
I was raised a J.W. so did that as a kid, i think because i was awesomely cute they purchased lots of watchtower and awakes from me..lol

But I get them about twice a year in the part of the U.K. where i live, I'm always polite and never let them ask the inevitable 'what do you think about the future' and 'are you concerned about the future' questions which even as a kid i thought an weird way to start a conversation.

What i have seen a lot more of is street stands in busy areas in cities and towns which usually has a few well dressed men and ladies standing around willing to chat with you should you pause for a moment.
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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#11

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
The goddess is good at sensing my feelings. With Jehovas, she likes to stand a few steps back and stare at them (I do too), and when they speak, she barks. I let it go on and watch them get really frustrated, then I say I am not interested and turn and walk away, the goddess by my side.


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#12

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
There are a few Mormon churches in this area, but Mormon proselytizers have never showed up at my doorstep.  Dunno
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#13

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
I used to feel compelled to open the door and talk to these people, but not anymore. I don't feel like I have to let them annoy me. Also, why should I assume that, just because the person at my door is wearing a suit or nice dress, he or she is a religious person? It might be someone posing as a religious person that is in reality casing the house to rob it later. Yes, I am naturally suspicious. So now I just let them knock until they realize I'm not opening the door and they go away.

I do like the approach of an elderly gentleman I know. When people came calling he said, "I'll join if you can perform a miracle right now!" I can just imagine the awkward silence that followed. And they never returned to his place. Can't imagine why.
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#14

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
I think Jehova Witnesses have the better understanding of the Bible then most Christian groups. I disagree with Jesus is Michael hypothesis and their way of proving that is weak for example, and also their whole name thing, but over all, they interpret the Bible by the Bible and are more sincere to the Bible then other groups.

Like all humans, they err, and have some wrong views pertaining to the Bible.
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#15

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-22-2020, 03:35 PM)Link Wrote: I think Jehova Witnesses have the better understanding of the Bible then most Christian groups.  I disagree with Jesus is Michael hypothesis and their way of proving that is weak for example, and also their whole name thing, but over all, they interpret the Bible by the Bible and are more sincere to the Bible then other groups.

Like all humans, they err, and have some wrong views pertaining to the Bible.

Given the amount of awful that comes out of sincerely interpreting the Bible by the Bible, I would not call that a virtue.
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov
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#16

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-22-2020, 04:33 PM)Reltzik Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 03:35 PM)Link Wrote: I think Jehova Witnesses have the better understanding of the Bible then most Christian groups.  I disagree with Jesus is Michael hypothesis and their way of proving that is weak for example, and also their whole name thing, but over all, they interpret the Bible by the Bible and are more sincere to the Bible then other groups.

Like all humans, they err, and have some wrong views pertaining to the Bible.

Given the amount of awful that comes out of sincerely interpreting the Bible by the Bible, I would not call that a virtue.

I've learned there is a lot of hearsay misconceptions around Jehova Witnesses.  I've had many myself. Can you show what is so bad about their teachings?
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#17

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
Well, to start with there the whole great sky fairy thing.
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#18

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-22-2020, 04:34 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:33 PM)Reltzik Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 03:35 PM)Link Wrote: I think Jehova Witnesses have the better understanding of the Bible then most Christian groups.  I disagree with Jesus is Michael hypothesis and their way of proving that is weak for example, and also their whole name thing, but over all, they interpret the Bible by the Bible and are more sincere to the Bible then other groups.

Like all humans, they err, and have some wrong views pertaining to the Bible.

Given the amount of awful that comes out of sincerely interpreting the Bible by the Bible, I would not call that a virtue.

I've learned there is a lot of hearsay misconceptions around Jehova Witnesses.  I've had many myself. Can you show what is so bad about their teachings?

To list off just three highlights:

1)  The blood transfusion thing.  I don't think anyone can count the number of child corpses that have resulted from this.  Those children aren't dying for their beliefs; they're being sacrificed for their parents' belief.  Adults dying for their beliefs is one thing -- still stupid and still wrong, but at least the victim had some agency.  Parents forcing their kids to die for the parents' beliefs is a whole 'nother animal.

2)  Disfellowshiping.  The threat of social ostracism is a horrific one.  Honest questions can result in losing every friend and loved one you have, and whatever their propaganda says they wield it as a form of cruelty, psychological torture meant to the end of compelling a return to the fold on the basis of threat rather than belief.  If you ever wanted to drive someone to suicide (don't), this would probably be near the top of the list of most effective methods.  The alternative, for anyone with brain enough to doubt the doctrines, is to live in the closet over one's doubts, always in fear of discovery.  This too is extremely harmful to the victim.  And let's not even get into how it can intimidate a person into, among other things, refuse life-saving medical care because of how closely that sort of thing is monitored.

3)  The power structure, as epitomized by the unquestionable, always-right, on-a-pedestal, believe-and-obey-them-or-else fucking Watchtower Society.  Among the many, many problems this sort of set-up always creates, let's focus on just the sexual molestation of children.  This hierarchy empowered the priests (I think they're called elders, but whatever, I'm using "priest" as a generic term) to force themselves on children.  That wasn't the goal, but that was the effect of instilling that level of reverence towards the priests.  It created a culture of silence among the victims, both in the tendency to blame the victim and also in the mandate not to go to secular law enforcement.  It then actively worked to cover up the abuses, by wielding disfellowshiping as a form of intimidation and revenge, by mandating the victims forgive their abusers, by caring more about no one thinking bad things about them than about not letting their own children get raped, by equating any whistle-blowing with an attack on God, on and on and on.  And EVERY Witness who gives the Society and the priests their total, unquestioning, baseless faith and belief in the face of all evidence to the contrary is complicit.   And again, this is JUST ONE issue spawned by the authoritarian system.

(EDIT-ADDENDUM) But EVEN IF the Witnesses had managed to sincerely interpret the Bible WITHOUT the result being an utter atrocity (they haven't), making the attempt with sincerity and fidelity to the text would still not be a virtue.
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov
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#19

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-22-2020, 03:35 PM)Link Wrote: I think Jehova Witnesses have the better understanding of the Bible then most Christian groups.  I disagree with Jesus is Michael hypothesis and their way of proving that is weak for example, and also their whole name thing, but over all, they interpret the Bible by the Bible and are more sincere to the Bible then other groups.

Like all humans, they err, and have some wrong views pertaining to the Bible.

They have their own version  of the Bible (The New World Translation) which has been extensively edited to bring it into line with JW doctrines.
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#20

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-23-2020, 11:32 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 03:35 PM)Link Wrote: I think Jehova Witnesses have the better understanding of the Bible then most Christian groups.  I disagree with Jesus is Michael hypothesis and their way of proving that is weak for example, and also their whole name thing, but over all, they interpret the Bible by the Bible and are more sincere to the Bible then other groups.

Like all humans, they err, and have some wrong views pertaining to the Bible.

They have their own version  of the Bible (The New World Translation) which has been extensively edited to bring it into line with JW doctrines.

I would say they argue for their translations and why they translate certain verses in a certain way better then most groups.
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#21

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-22-2020, 05:10 PM)Reltzik Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:34 PM)Link Wrote:
(03-22-2020, 04:33 PM)Reltzik Wrote: Given the amount of awful that comes out of sincerely interpreting the Bible by the Bible, I would not call that a virtue.

I've learned there is a lot of hearsay misconceptions around Jehova Witnesses.  I've had many myself. Can you show what is so bad about their teachings?

To list off just three highlights:

1)  The blood transfusion thing.  I don't think anyone can count the number of child corpses that have resulted from this.  Those children aren't dying for their beliefs; they're being sacrificed for their parents' belief.  Adults dying for their beliefs is one thing -- still stupid and still wrong, but at least the victim had some agency.  Parents forcing their kids to die for the parents' beliefs is a whole 'nother animal.

2)  Disfellowshiping.  The threat of social ostracism is a horrific one.  Honest questions can result in losing every friend and loved one you have, and whatever their propaganda says they wield it as a form of cruelty, psychological torture meant to the end of compelling a return to the fold on the basis of threat rather than belief.  If you ever wanted to drive someone to suicide (don't), this would probably be near the top of the list of most effective methods.  The alternative, for anyone with brain enough to doubt the doctrines, is to live in the closet over one's doubts, always in fear of discovery.  This too is extremely harmful to the victim.  And let's not even get into how it can intimidate a person into, among other things, refuse life-saving medical care because of how closely that sort of thing is monitored.

3)  The power structure, as epitomized by the unquestionable, always-right, on-a-pedestal, believe-and-obey-them-or-else fucking Watchtower Society.  Among the many, many problems this sort of set-up always creates, let's focus on just the sexual molestation of children.  This hierarchy empowered the priests (I think they're called elders, but whatever, I'm using "priest" as a generic term) to force themselves on children.  That wasn't the goal, but that was the effect of instilling that level of reverence towards the priests.  It created a culture of silence among the victims, both in the tendency to blame the victim and also in the mandate not to go to secular law enforcement.  It then actively worked to cover up the abuses, by wielding disfellowshiping as a form of intimidation and revenge, by mandating the victims forgive their abusers, by caring more about no one thinking bad things about them than about not letting their own children get raped, by equating any whistle-blowing with an attack on God, on and on and on.  And EVERY Witness who gives the Society and the priests their total, unquestioning, baseless faith and belief in the face of all evidence to the contrary is complicit.   And again, this is JUST ONE issue spawned by the authoritarian system.

(EDIT-ADDENDUM) But EVEN IF the Witnesses had managed to sincerely interpret the Bible WITHOUT the result being an utter atrocity (they haven't), making the attempt with sincerity and fidelity to the text would still not be a virtue.

I agree with you on these points. This is a weakness they have.
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#22

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
Their biggest problem is the structure of 8 on top to reflect and think for them, and that they over emphasized on unity, to the extent they agree on irrational conclusions like blood transfusion and even doctrine that are irrational derived for example, Jesus = Michael and it's the same entity.
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#23

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-22-2020, 04:34 PM)Link Wrote: I've learned there is a lot of hearsay misconceptions around Jehovah Witnesses.  I've had many myself. Can you show what is so bad about their teachings?

Hey fucknuckle...

The JWs seriously believe in the existence of supernatural entities (gods) and
paranormal phenomena (miracles)—just like you do. And just like them, you're
as thick as shit.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#24

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
(03-20-2020, 06:19 PM)Reltzik Wrote: Has anyone had people from, say, JW or LDS or the other usual suspects knocking on your door in the past week or two?

Looking for a silver lining here.

I had some JW's a couple of months ago. I decided to push all their red buttons - I used to be a Christian I don't want to worship a crucified Roman criminal. "Not they way we see it" they said. I also said I don't want to worship the god of the Jews, Yahweh, or "Jehovah" as you call him because firstly I'm not sure he even exists, and even assuming he does I don't see what gives him any greater credentials for me to worship compared to say Bobbi-Bobbi an Indigenous god. "Because he created us". That's just an idea, in only appears in Genesis 1-3, elsewhere there's many other ideas about him in the Hebrew bible that Christians ignore like he prefers rule by kingdom, he's a warrior god that says to take captive women you conquer as sex slaves, those aspirations don't appeal to me. And anyway his existence is unproven, just as unproven as any other deity.

I said nothing at all to insult them personally, just hammered the point I thought their god was trash.
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#25

Door-to-door prosteletyzers
How to welcome Jehovah Witnesses.

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