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May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
#1

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
Is this whole Covid-19 thing a massive over-reaction?



I was reminded of this quote of Mencken:

Quote: “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

― H.L. Mencken

So.  Is this that much different from the common flu that it requires shutting down the planet?

Opine away.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#2

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
I think not. Going out on an unsupported branch of "science" here, as I am not a professional.
I think, I opine, that due to the novelty of this virus the mortality rate will continue to be multiple factors higher than the flu strains. So will the hospitalization rates.
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#3

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
It is mutating. So far there are two strains, last I heard. One more severe than the other. And now there seems to be a new strain, it affects the younger generations also. Also, even if you do survive, your lungs can be compromised for life. You're short of breath. It's not like having a cold that just goes away.
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#4

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
It is I think over-reaction. It's a perfect pretext to strengthen the grasp of gov on populace and I can't imagine fascists ruling in Poland not taking advantage of fear created by it. Last I checked 5 people who in addition to covid had other health issues died and entire country is ready to shit itself and there are even voices about necessity of enabling state of emergency.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#5

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
(03-19-2020, 05:32 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Is this whole Covid-19 thing a massive over-reaction?



I was reminded of this quote of Mencken:

Quote: “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

― H.L. Mencken

So.  Is this that much different from the common flu that it requires shutting down the planet?

Opine away.

With a 90% survival rate, yes I think it's an over-reaction.  For people with compromized health problems I certainly understand their fear and hunkering down mode but for the vast majority of people it will come down to a bad flu.  This isn't the death sentence that HIV was in the 1980's which killed 25 million people  or Diptheria was before the vaccine and it ain't even in the same universe of the Black Plague in the 13th century which killed 200 million people in an horrible and undescribable  death.  

So I'm going about my life pretty much as usual.
                                                         T4618
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#6

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
Decimation in other words, no big deal. Mother nature applying a little discipline. Unfortunately the lifelong consequences for some survivors is not factored in there.
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#7

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
I sent a text to Thanos. I think his answer is ... inevitable.
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#8

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
If we do nothing, the death rate will be much, much higher. That's because the sick will overflow the hospitals and they will not be able to care for everyone. Then, medical staff will have to decide who gets saved and who doesn't. No one wants that to have to happen. So, no, I don't think we are overreacting. We are not trying to stop the virus at this point, we are trying to lower the curve to save lives.
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#9

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
Depends what country you're in. Not an over-reaction when America is woefully unprepared for it, for example. Not to mention the sheer amount of stupid people here. Look at all the young people (here I am acting like a Boomer) still going out on Spring Break.
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#10

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
Some good thoughts.  Keep it coming.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#11

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
(03-19-2020, 05:48 PM)Dom Wrote: It is mutating. So far there are two strains, last I heard. One more severe than the other. And now there seems to be a new strain, it affects the younger generations also. Also, even if you do survive, your lungs can be compromised for life. You're short of breath. It's not like having a cold that just goes away.

My understanding is that the mutation is the LESS virulent strain, which would be consistent with how viruses tend to adapt. They are more lethal at first, then less so. They "seek" a homeostasis between speed of transmission and not killing too many hosts, thus reducing opportunity.

Thoughtful of them.
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#12

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
The better question is: will this be life on Earth every winter/early spring until we can get majority of our respective populations vaccinated?
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#13

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
I think the world had to choose between saving the economies and saving lives. They went with the latter. Is that wrong? I think that's a question without an objective answer.
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#14

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
My thought is that we are in some ways UNDER reacting, for example, in rapid deployment of testing and ventilators and making sure hospital capacity is maximized and that people aren't harmed by the lack of income. On the part of the public, that some people had to be forced to quit dining out and partying like there's no tomorrow, is an under-reaction.

However that doesn't change that the pandemic is an OPPORTUNITY for demagoguery and worse ... up to and including naked power grabs.

Some commentators are baffled by Trump's continued stupid moves and failure to get out in front of this crisis. But it all makes sense if you see it as malignant neglect designed to WORSEN the crisis so that he will be handed more power later. Martial law / suspension of habeus corpus, election "postponment", stuff like that.

Are there little pockets of overreaction? That's true too. People buying a lifetime supply of toilet paper. People afraid to go into the grocery store at all. Mostly on the public side from what I've noted so far.

All of this is true at the same time. It's a sprawling crisis with many moving parts and nuances.
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#15

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
Why the coronavirus hit Italy so hard

https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-coro...y-so-hard/
                                                         T4618
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#16

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
Spotted this quote over at RawStory:

Quote:“Testing is central because that leads to early detection, it minimizes further spread, and it quickly treats those found with the virus.”

Is that true, though?  In part it probably is.  If you detect it and can tell someone to get their ass home and stay there you might minimize the spread - at least to non family members of the infected person.  But the second part is misleading.  There is no "treatment."  Just like someone with the flu they tell you to go home, drink fluids and take aspirin or something for the fever.  If you have an underlying condition and start having trouble breathing that's when it is time to get into a hospital for supportive care which is about all they can do.  But that is no different from the common flu or whatever strain is common at the time.



A report on what they did in 1918.  Some of this is going to sound distressingly familiar!

https://virus.stanford.edu/uda/fluresponse.html

Quote:The responses of the Public Health Departments in Europe and in the United States represented the ideas prevalent in society and in the scientific community. While most of the measures were solidly grounded in the current scientific concepts, they could also be traced back to Medieval and even Classical times of plague and pestilence. The idea of contagion prompting quarantines and isolation dates back to the Justinian Plague.

WTH.  It was only a century ago!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#17

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
This chart makes plain what we're up against and likely to see here. It's slightly out of date (by a few hours); current # of cases in the US is 11,689.

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#18

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
I think those in their 20s and 30s need not be buying 3000 rolls of tp to “get by” on for the next two months. That is completely absurd. I think people need to utilize common sense and wash their hands. Often. Keep their distance from others for now. Don’t cough on people. Don’t sneeze on people. If you feel sick - stay the hell home. Everyone needs to help look out for their elderly neighbors and make sure those folks have supplies and food because the hoarders were only thinking of themselves.
      On ignore: Shitty people not deserving of my time or attention.
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#19

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(03-19-2020, 08:12 PM)Joods Wrote: I think those in their 20s and 30s need not be buying 3000 rolls of tp to “get by” on for the next two months. 

Stores here are only allowing us to take 1 pack of toilet paper per customer.
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#20

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
too late for that here, there is none.
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#21

May As Well Ask The Question For All To Weigh In On
It is a different problem to influenza in that it is a new virus in humans and there is no immunity nor vaccine.  Influenza, for which we have vaccines and immunity to some strains, kills 10s of thousands annually.
If this virus is as deadly as influenza, then it would likely kill 100s of thousands or millions.

However, I think the reaction is late and poorly thought out.  The efforts towards testing and a vaccine should have been absolutely top priority, with toilet paper a bit further down the list. Dodgy
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#22

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(03-19-2020, 08:19 PM)skyking Wrote: too late for that here, there is none.

I'm looking at buying a bidet attchment but the one I'm looking at is sold out.  According to reviews they work pretty damned good.  One lady said she only used one roll of toilet paper in the entire year. Saves trees too, I guess.
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#23

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(03-19-2020, 08:15 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 08:12 PM)Joods Wrote: I think those in their 20s and 30s need not be buying 3000 rolls of tp to “get by” on for the next two months. 

Stores here are only allowing us to take 1 pack of toilet paper per customer.

(03-19-2020, 08:19 PM)skyking Wrote: too late for that here, there is none.

Same. They only thought about placing restrictions on people after all the hoarders took everything.  Facepalm Dodgy
      On ignore: Shitty people not deserving of my time or attention.
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#24

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(03-19-2020, 08:23 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 08:19 PM)skyking Wrote: too late for that here, there is none.

I'm looking at buying a bidet attchment but the one I'm looking at is sold out.  According to reviews they work pretty damned good.  One lady said she only used one roll of toilet paper in the entire year. Saves trees too, I guess.

Maybe what we're going to come out of this clusterfuck with is a new appreciation for telework, remote learning, and bidets.
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#25

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Here are a few facts to consider. First, the coronavirus is likely already much worse than we know because the information we do have is already dated as soon as we get it. Second, since we aren't doing enough testing in the U.S., it's probably even worse than that unknown already.

So all in all, I think we are responding with appropriate alarm, especially considering how we reacted against terrorism. 200,000 to 1.7 million Americans will likely die from the virus, and perhaps more, depending on our level of reaction now.
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