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The Romans tried to save the Republic
#1

The Romans tried to save the Republic
from men like Trump, but they failed

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

#America wasn't built in a day
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#2

The Romans tried to save the Republic
Yes, but.

One can't push the analogy too far.  Caesar was one of the great commanders of all time.  No bone spurs for him.

But the Roman Republic was fucked long before Caesar was born.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#3

The Romans tried to save the Republic
(03-09-2020, 04:12 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: from men like Trump, but they failed

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

#America wasn't built in a day

They failed for the same reasons we are failing, as well.  Growing income inequality, neglect of their people and infrastructure, over expansion and vast military spending, government corruption and political instability, civil unrest, the rise of another Empire in the East (China in our case), production and agricultural decline (like how we are now a service society, instead of a production society).

We are living history right now.  I suspect in a few hundred years, assuming we survive the climate crisis, people will look back on the American empire the same way.
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#4

The Romans tried to save the Republic
The comparisons are pretty false. Catilina was quite an able man, evil but able. Caesar as well. Extremely talented military commander and able politician.
Yes lots of them came from (formerly) rich families, from families with influence, many of them were pretty bancrupt (at some point), including Caesar. Caesar also was author of books he wrote (and i read some of it), he was an able writer. Caesar is also said to have had a lot of charisma, and not only with the gullible/stupid, but battle hardened veteran legionary soldiers. He was inspiring and went to the front lines at Alesia.

Trump is a fool.
cetero censeo religionem esse delendam 
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#5

The Romans tried to save the Republic
Quote:They failed for the same reasons we are failing, as well.  Growing income inequality, neglect of their people and infrastructure, over expansion and vast military spending, government corruption and political instability, civil unrest, the rise of another Empire in the East (China in our case), production and agricultural decline (like how we are now a service society, instead of a production society).

You left out one very important one, Aroura. 

The government of the Roman Republic - which was pretty much an oligarchy anyway - was designed for a small city-state in the 5th century BC.  It functioned fairly well while Rome expanded through Central and Southern Italy.  But that expansion was not particularly brutal.  Conquered towns were incorporated into a complex system of alliances and treaties but the inhabitants were not enslaved or murdered.  In this way the Romans built themselves a tremendous manpower pool and when Hannibal invaded Italy he was amazed to see that no matter what kinds of success he had in the field those Roman "allies" for the most part did not rebel against them.  It was one of the fundamental reasons for Hannibal's failure.  So dealing with other Italians was not a brutal exercise for the Romans. 

But that system could not survive contact with alien cultures and the growth of empire.  The Roman solution was mass enslavement, which I suppose they felt was better than mass murder and I would tend to agree, but it did create many of the issues you noted.  But even though they doubtless recognized the problem no one could change the system of annually elected consuls and the senate deliberating on everything.  Extra-constitutional measures were introduced out of necessity but the whole system was fatally stricken by their own success.  As we are now learning when you start to employ extra-constitutional measures ( some would probably say unconstitutional measures and I would not disagree) its hard to stop.

Like them, we are wheezing along operating under a document which was not designed to handle the situation we now find ourselves in.  We could change it but given the forces prevalent in this country today I would be terrified of what would emerge from a new constitutional convention.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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