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Something I Have Wondered About
#1

Something I Have Wondered About
https://thenextweb.com/science/2019/10/0...e-mission/

Quote:Elon Musk’s plan for sending people to Mars is probably a suicide mission

Quote:This all sounds great, but getting humans to Mars isn’t just a matter of building a big spaceship that goes really fast. It’s not just rocket science. Assuming that psychological complications don’t make the entire endeavor a literal nightmare for those involved, there’s also the currently unsolved problem of how human exposure to space radiation over extended periods is probably lethal.

Looks like Bill was right.

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Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#2

Something I Have Wondered About
Yes it is, but if we can't colonise Mars - or at the very least the Moon - there's almost no hope of colonising another solar system.
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#3

Something I Have Wondered About
It's all fun and games till your habitat blows out.
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#4

Something I Have Wondered About
The lava tubes on Mars are currently the #1 potential habitat there.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#5

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-03-2020, 06:20 AM)Aractus Wrote: ... there's almost no hope of colonising another solar system ...

We may discover it's more feasible to terraform our own solar system rather than establish colonies so separated by interstellar space there's no meaningful interlinkage between them.  There's immense untapped energy potential from the sun that radiates uselessly perpendicular to the orbital plane.  If that could be captured it'd provide energy to break apart the gas giants, their moons and the asteroids to build up new planets at earth distances from the sun, and catalyze their constituents to fabricate earthlike biospheres on their surfaces, oceans, breathable atmospheres, etc.  It'd convert the entire solar system to habitable real estate, provided it could be accomplished with enough remaining sun life to support finally doing something similar to some relatively close system so when the sun does finally poop out we'd already be relocated to a fresher sun.

At some point we'd be capable of making whole solar systems, including their suns, by harvesting loose interstellar dust, turning the natural chaos of our unfashionable district of the galaxy into an orderly planned community.

It'd be a project akin to the great cathedrals, successive generations building something they themselves will never see, for the benefit of great-great to the 40th power grandchildren.  Fr&%k'n awesome.
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#6

Something I Have Wondered About
Quote:At some point we'd be capable of making whole solar systems, including their suns, by harvesting loose interstellar dust,

Or,

a handful of survivors will be living in caves and licking the salt off of rocks.

The way we are going I suspect Option #B is more probable.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#7

Something I Have Wondered About
You think there will be survivors. That's cute.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#8

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-03-2020, 06:20 AM)Aractus Wrote: Yes it is, but if we can't colonise Mars - or at the very least the Moon - there's almost no hope of colonising another solar system.


Thank gawd, knowing us from the inside I hope the contagion can be contained.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
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#9

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-03-2020, 09:07 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: You think there will be survivors. That's cute.

Oh, humans are like roaches..... you can't kill us all.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#10

Something I Have Wondered About
Hard vacuum.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#11

Something I Have Wondered About
The Biosphere project, a scientific experiment to see how successful an enclosed system could work, a precursor to sending man to the Moon or to Mars, was not exactly a success. So this idea we could send settlers to the Moon or to Mars who could successfully live there for any length of time seems rather doubtful to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2
...
Biosphere 2 was only used twice for its original intended purposes as a closed-system experiment: once from 1991 to 1993, and the second time from March to September 1994. Both attempts, though heavily publicized, ran into problems including low amounts of food and oxygen, die-offs of many animals and plants included in the experiment (though this was anticipated since the project used a strategy of deliberately "species-packing" anticipating losses as the biomes developed), group dynamic tensions among the resident crew, outside politics and a power struggle over management and direction of the project.
...

See also Youtube, for various Biosphere2 videos.

Google also for L-5 society for another failed project.
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#12

Something I Have Wondered About
The biospheres weren't big enough. The humans were on the verge of failing when the experiments ended, due to claustrophobia as much as anything else. On Mars if you get sick of the other people you can go outside and climb a hill, go just over the crest, and you're the only human being on the planet insofar as you can see.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#13

Something I Have Wondered About
Mars is a horrible place to try and colonize. It has almost no benefits and a list of problems as long as your arm. Great vacation spot but only a fool would want to live there.

The moon makes a lot more sense.
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#14

Something I Have Wondered About
It's a thousand-year project, building a self-sustaining colony on Mars, I think.
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#15

Something I Have Wondered About
That lets the US out.  We can't think that far in advance.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#16

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-03-2020, 11:21 AM)airportkid Wrote:
(03-03-2020, 06:20 AM)Aractus Wrote: ... there's almost no hope of colonising another solar system ...

We may discover it's more feasible to terraform our own solar system rather than establish colonies so separated by interstellar space there's no meaningful interlinkage between them.  There's immense untapped energy potential from the sun that radiates uselessly perpendicular to the orbital plane.  If that could be captured it'd provide energy to break apart the gas giants, their moons and the asteroids to build up new planets at earth distances from the sun, and catalyze their constituents to fabricate earthlike biospheres on their surfaces, oceans, breathable atmospheres, etc.  It'd convert the entire solar system to habitable real estate, provided it could be accomplished with enough remaining sun life to support finally doing something similar to some relatively close system so when the sun does finally poop out we'd already be relocated to a fresher sun.

At some point we'd be capable of making whole solar systems, including their suns, by harvesting loose interstellar dust, turning the natural chaos of our unfashionable district of the galaxy into an orderly planned community.

It'd be a project akin to the great cathedrals, successive generations building something they themselves will never see, for the benefit of great-great to the 40th power grandchildren.  Fr&%k'n awesome.

Great scenario for a Marvel comic book.  By the time we figure out how to achieve even a fraction of that, Earth will have been engulfed by the sun going into its red giant stage.
No gods necessary
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#17

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-04-2020, 01:00 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Mars is a horrible place to try and colonize. It has almost no benefits and a list of problems as long as your arm. Great vacation spot but only a fool would want to live there.

The moon makes a lot more sense.

#1 no magnetosphere.
  solar winds and radiation will play hell on any attempt there.
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#18

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-03-2020, 09:45 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: The biospheres weren't big enough. The humans were on the verge of failing when the experiments ended, due to claustrophobia as much as anything else. On Mars if you get sick of the other people you can go outside and climb a hill, go just over the crest, and you're the only human being on the planet insofar as you can see.

How many hours of oxygen can your Mars suit supply?  And energy to heat your suit in the -160 degree Martian air?  How much radiation can you take?  You might get a few occasional hours outside.  The big problem with Biosphere 2 was bad air quality.  Air quality in such a thing is much harder to deal with than expected.
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#19

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-04-2020, 05:48 AM)brunumb Wrote: Great scenario for a Marvel comic book.  By the time we figure out how to achieve even a fraction of that, Earth will have been engulfed by the sun going into its red giant stage.

Well, the novels have been written.  Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy: Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#20

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-04-2020, 07:04 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:
(03-03-2020, 09:45 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: The biospheres weren't big enough. The humans were on the verge of failing when the experiments ended, due to claustrophobia as much as anything else. On Mars if you get sick of the other people you can go outside and climb a hill, go just over the crest, and you're the only human being on the planet insofar as you can see.

How many hours of oxygen can your Mars suit supply?  And energy to heat your suit in the -160 degree Martian air?  How much radiation can you take?  You might get a few occasional hours outside.  The big problem with Biosphere 2 was bad air quality.  Air quality in such a thing is much harder to deal with than expected.

I'm more worried about how many potatoes I can grow there.
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#21

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-04-2020, 01:00 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Mars is a horrible place to try and colonize. It has almost no benefits and a list of problems as long as your arm. Great vacation spot but only a fool would want to live there.

The moon makes a lot more sense.

And the libration points.
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#22

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-04-2020, 07:04 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:
(03-03-2020, 09:45 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: The biospheres weren't big enough. The humans were on the verge of failing when the experiments ended, due to claustrophobia as much as anything else. On Mars if you get sick of the other people you can go outside and climb a hill, go just over the crest, and you're the only human being on the planet insofar as you can see.

How many hours of oxygen can your Mars suit supply?  And energy to heat your suit in the -160 degree Martian air?  How much radiation can you take?  You might get a few occasional hours outside.  The big problem with Biosphere 2 was bad air quality.  Air quality in such a thing is much harder to deal with than expected.

Why do you assume I would be plonked down on Mars without a single bit of prep? Just to win?
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#23

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-04-2020, 11:31 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I'm more worried about how many potatoes I can grow there.

Yeppers... too many spuds is never enough fucking spuds!       Big Grin
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#24

Something I Have Wondered About
(03-04-2020, 12:11 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(03-04-2020, 11:31 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I'm more worried about how many potatoes I can grow there.

Yeppers... too many spuds is never enough fucking spuds!       Big Grin

And I'm beginning to hate them with a flaming passion of ten thousands suns.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#25

Something I Have Wondered About
It's ultimately about two things. Resources, and avoiding local extinction. Colonizing other places can provide some insulation against local extinctions. But the main aim is to provide an additional set of resources for the species to draw upon. Eventually, you're going to run out in this solar system, and resource exchange with places beyond this system is likely impractical. So the ultimate goal, aside from curiosity and bragging rights, is to bring us closer to sustainability, or close enough to last until other factors like the sun going out make continued existence improbable. The most effective path toward that goal is behavior change, not space travel.
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