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What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
#1

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
I'm going to go ahead and let the cat out of the bag.  Sorry guys.  @Drich, you taking notes?  @SteveII, sorry but I don't see you as being able to pull this approach off even if you wanted to - but I don't think you'd want to.

The Christians I respect most are those who respect my position.  So the only ones who can ever get me to care what they think are the ones who genuinely accept that some people simply have other beliefs.   If they admit that there is no argument for the existence of God which can persuade someone who doesn't already find that likely, then I will consider them honest and bright and be more open to what else they have to say.  

Somebody who embodied the approach I'm advocating is @Catholic_Lady.  But there are plenty of Christians in the sciences who take this position.  Some will go so far as to admit they wrestle with faith but are committed to going on wrestling.  If they sense you would really like to go on wrestling they'll be happy to support you but they don't push their own agenda where it isn't welcome.

So @Drich, if you want to win converts.  Be brutally honest with yourself and humble about your beliefs and you'll have them eating out of your hand, provided that what you're handing out is at all tasty.  But so long as you go on pushing your religion on us out of your duty to God .. well, sorry but you can just get bent for all we care.  

@SteveII you couldn't make this work because you're convinced that you yourself are clever enough to prove God's existence both to us and to yourself.  We're never going to agree with you about that, but for what its worth I do believe you honestly think it can be done and that you can figure it out.  That means I think you're honest even if lacking insight.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#2

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
The best approach religionists can take, in my view, is just coming across being real and human. Leave the agenda at the door, and let's just talk like two folks. Coming in and preaching at me is a sure way to tell me you don't really care about people.
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#3

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
Honesty coupled with being humble does not always work. I had a friend in high school who fit those descriptions, only to find out later that those were mere theistic glamours she wore to hide the ugliness of her true character. She deceived me, and in the end she knew that what she had done was wrong despite her faithful duty to god. Certainly, that one individual is not representative of all theists, but that encounter taught me to be extremely wary around theists with good intentions.
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#4

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
When I was a Christian I had many spiritual children (around 30) , and frankly not sure if i had a method or not, when asked to preach i would preach, when asked a question i would answer it the best i could, but most of the time i just chilled with people and listened to them.

I was as helpful as i could be without mentioning the lord at all, I did talk about church and my experiences there but in the same way as i would chat about going to a football game, or a sporting event matter of factly, and when i did mention Jesus it was simply as part of a conversation. I accepted that many did not believe, but I chilled anyway, i like people so it was no stress at all, and all my friends used to respect that I had faith and some nights of the week and Sundays i would go to church.

What's more important is that that's the way I am now, I chill with believers and unbelievers alike (though i do get Sundays off) and money i used to give i still give to local charities Now it's the believers who ask me what my secret to being so peaceful is..

I have a few atheist children now...
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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#5

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 02:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The best approach religionists can take, in my view, is just coming across being real and human. Leave the agenda at the door, and let's just talk like two folks. Coming in and preaching at me is a sure way to tell me you don't really care about people.

Most of my wife's family are dedicated Christians, and they're great because they never discuss their religion at all.  The only time I hear anything is when my brother-in-law says grace before Thanksgiving dinner.
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#6

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 02:51 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 02:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The best approach religionists can take, in my view, is just coming across being real and human. Leave the agenda at the door, and let's just talk like two folks. Coming in and preaching at me is a sure way to tell me you don't really care about people.

Most of my wife's family are dedicated Christians, and they're great because they never discuss their religion at all.  The only time I hear anything is when my brother-in-law says grace before Thanksgiving dinner.

I'm fine with prayers, even say amen afterwards it costs me nothing but means a lot to them, if they want to know why I'm an atheist now and they ask, I'll share with them.
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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#7

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 02:47 AM)possibletarian Wrote: When I was a Christian I had many spiritual children (around 30) , and frankly not sure if i had a method or not, when asked to preach i would preach, when asked a question i would answer it the best i could, but most of the time i just chilled with people and listened to them.

I was as helpful as i could be without mentioning the lord at all, I did talk about church and my experiences there but in the same way as i would chat about going to a football game, or a sporting event matter of factly, and when i did mention Jesus it was simply as part of a conversation. I accepted that many did not believe, but I chilled anyway, i like people so it was no stress at all, and all my friends used to respect that I had faith and some nights of the week and Sundays i would go to church.

What's more important is that that's the way I am now, I chill with believers and unbelievers alike (though i do get Sundays off) and money i used to give i still give to local charities Now it's the believers who ask me what my secret to being so peaceful is..

I have a few atheist children now...


I have to say I'm not into proselytizing in either direction.  There was one person on AF.org named Jacob who decided he didn't believe any longer but I was not trying to make that happen and I reassured him it meant nothing to me whichever he decided.  It wasn't long after that he became depressed and seemed miserable.  That is why I try to avoid influencing anyone about their religious status.  As far as I'm concerned, they are peers of the realm and responsible for their own decisions.  The last thing I want is to carry around is a tally of any spiritual children of mine.  I'll leave that to the Christians that can't help themselves from trying to ingratiate themselves to God in this way.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#8

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 02:21 AM)Mark Wrote: I'm going to go ahead and let the cat out of the bag.  Sorry guys.  @Drich, you taking notes?  @SteveII, sorry but I don't see you as being able to pull this approach off even if you wanted to - but I don't think you'd want to.

The Christians I respect most are those who respect my position.  So the only ones who can ever get me to care what they think are the ones who genuinely accept that some people simply have other beliefs.   If they admit that there is no argument for the existence of God which can persuade someone who doesn't already find that likely, then I will consider them honest and bright and be more open to what else they have to say.  

Somebody who embodied the approach I'm advocating is @Catholic_Lady.  But there are plenty of Christians in the sciences who take this position.  Some will go so far as to admit they wrestle with faith but are committed to going on wrestling.  If they sense you would really like to go on wrestling they'll be happy to support you but they don't push their own agenda where it isn't welcome.

So @Drich, if you want to win converts.  Be brutally honest with yourself and humble about your beliefs and you'll have them eating out of your hand, provided that what you're handing out is at all tasty.  But so long as you go on pushing your religion on us out of your duty to God .. well, sorry but you can just get bent for all we care.  

@SteveII you couldn't make this work because you're convinced that you yourself are clever enough to prove God's existence both to us and to yourself.  We're never going to agree with you about that, but for what its worth I do believe you honestly think it can be done and that you can figure it out.  That means I think you're honest even if lacking insight.

I'm at a loss as to how to respond. I'd rather listen to Drich or Steve any day than this type of arrogant ass twaddle from you.
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#9

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
The best approach would be to produce facts supporting their position.  The problem, of course, is that they have no facts.  They can't face the truth about their holy books so they make up phony stories about them.

It is a poor way to begin.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#10

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 05:31 AM)Minimalist Wrote: The best approach would be to produce facts supporting their position.  The problem, of course, is that they have no facts.  They can't face the truth about their holy books so they make up phony stories about them.

It is a poor way to begin.


Yeah, if they owned that much at the start they'd get further with me.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#11

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 05:15 AM)Dānu Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 02:21 AM)Mark Wrote: I'm going to go ahead and let the cat out of the bag.  Sorry guys.  @Drich, you taking notes?  @SteveII, sorry but I don't see you as being able to pull this approach off even if you wanted to - but I don't think you'd want to.

The Christians I respect most are those who respect my position.  So the only ones who can ever get me to care what they think are the ones who genuinely accept that some people simply have other beliefs.   If they admit that there is no argument for the existence of God which can persuade someone who doesn't already find that likely, then I will consider them honest and bright and be more open to what else they have to say.  

Somebody who embodied the approach I'm advocating is @Catholic_Lady.  But there are plenty of Christians in the sciences who take this position.  Some will go so far as to admit they wrestle with faith but are committed to going on wrestling.  If they sense you would really like to go on wrestling they'll be happy to support you but they don't push their own agenda where it isn't welcome.

So @Drich, if you want to win converts.  Be brutally honest with yourself and humble about your beliefs and you'll have them eating out of your hand, provided that what you're handing out is at all tasty.  But so long as you go on pushing your religion on us out of your duty to God .. well, sorry but you can just get bent for all we care.  

@SteveII you couldn't make this work because you're convinced that you yourself are clever enough to prove God's existence both to us and to yourself.  We're never going to agree with you about that, but for what its worth I do believe you honestly think it can be done and that you can figure it out.  That means I think you're honest even if lacking insight.

I'm at a loss as to how to respond.  I'd rather listen to Drich or Steve any day than this type of arrogant ass twaddle from you.

I suppose it is condescending but if there is more to your criticism than that, you'll have to elaborate.  But I can't think of anything else I'd care to discuss with either of them than this.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#12

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
Best way? Keeping their beliefs in fairy tales and tribal deities to themselves.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.

Socrates.
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#13

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
Best possible position? BOHICA.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#14

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 07:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote: Best way? Keeping their beliefs in fairy tales and tribal deities to themselves.


Or if their custom dictates that they spread the 'good' news they could at least politely ask their intended target if they would mind indulging them regarding a highly personal matter of great importance to themselves.  You know, instead of trying to come off as some kind of slick salesperson doing the target a big favor.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#15

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
Sorry Mark, but how is this any better than the religious telling atheists how to act or behave?

Their behavior is exactly what I've come to expect.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#16

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
But religious zealots need guidance in secular ethical behavior.
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#17

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 01:32 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: But religious zealots need guidance in secular ethical behavior.

I'm tired of trying to fix them.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#18

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 01:39 PM)brewerb Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:32 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: But religious zealots need guidance in secular ethical behavior.

I'm tired of trying to fix them.

Come met the cousins. Facepalm
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#19

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 05:46 AM)Mark Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 05:15 AM)Dānu Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 02:21 AM)Mark Wrote: I'm going to go ahead and let the cat out of the bag.  Sorry guys.  @Drich, you taking notes?  @SteveII, sorry but I don't see you as being able to pull this approach off even if you wanted to - but I don't think you'd want to.

The Christians I respect most are those who respect my position.  So the only ones who can ever get me to care what they think are the ones who genuinely accept that some people simply have other beliefs.   If they admit that there is no argument for the existence of God which can persuade someone who doesn't already find that likely, then I will consider them honest and bright and be more open to what else they have to say.  

Somebody who embodied the approach I'm advocating is @Catholic_Lady.  But there are plenty of Christians in the sciences who take this position.  Some will go so far as to admit they wrestle with faith but are committed to going on wrestling.  If they sense you would really like to go on wrestling they'll be happy to support you but they don't push their own agenda where it isn't welcome.

So @Drich, if you want to win converts.  Be brutally honest with yourself and humble about your beliefs and you'll have them eating out of your hand, provided that what you're handing out is at all tasty.  But so long as you go on pushing your religion on us out of your duty to God .. well, sorry but you can just get bent for all we care.  

@SteveII you couldn't make this work because you're convinced that you yourself are clever enough to prove God's existence both to us and to yourself.  We're never going to agree with you about that, but for what its worth I do believe you honestly think it can be done and that you can figure it out.  That means I think you're honest even if lacking insight.

I'm at a loss as to how to respond.  I'd rather listen to Drich or Steve any day than this type of arrogant ass twaddle from you.

I suppose it is condescending but if there is more to your criticism than that, you'll have to elaborate.  But I can't think of anything else I'd care to discuss with either of them than this.

Still working on finding the words, but let's start off with a list:

1. It's a dishonestly passive-aggressive attempt to criticize these men while pretending to want dialog in what is a bad faith analog to the concern troll. One doesn't start a dialog with somebody by soliciting third party opinions about them. This is pure passive-aggressiveness of the sort you seem to specialize in, Mark.
2. I've probably known these men as long as you have, and given what I recall them saying, your characterization of both these men and their intentions is so grossly inaccurate as to constitute strawmen that you've constructed just so you can knock them down and then pat yourself on the back for having done so.
3. You fault them for, as far as I can tell, the same sort of attempt to persuade others of their views and beliefs that you are here doing yourself with your own special brand of disingenuous rhetoric in which you cloak judgmentalism in an appearance of wanting compromise and reconciliation. You've been pulling this schtick for a long time, Mark, and while I don't doubt you think you are trying to be constructive, it shows that you're at least as lacking in insight into your own behavior and your proselytization concerning your worldview as you represent these men as being. It's the most absurd example of the pot calling the kettle black that I've seen in a while.
4. Your comments show a rather pathetic and inept understanding of human nature, all the while bandying about how you feel that these men are oblivious to the facts of human nature, or at least your human nature, which would help them succeed if they were in fact doing what you claim they are doing.
5. It's an example of the type of mind-reading psychoanalyzing typical of trolls, Dunning-krugers, and other similar idiots.
6. I'll add more later but this whole enterprise sickens me. If I gave negative rep, this and other recent posts of yours might well move me to do so.
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#20

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 01:42 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:39 PM)brewerb Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:32 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: But religious zealots need guidance in secular ethical behavior.

I'm tired of trying to fix them.

Come met the cousins.  Facepalm

I would, so long as I was guaranteed protection.

hobo
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#21

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 01:47 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:42 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:39 PM)brewerb Wrote: I'm tired of trying to fix them.

Come met the cousins.  Facepalm

I would, so long as I was guaranteed protection.

hobo

I'm sure that they could provide you a con"dum".
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#22

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 01:50 PM)brewerb Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:47 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:42 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Come met the cousins.  Facepalm

I would, so long as I was guaranteed protection.

hobo

I'm sure that they could provide you a con"dum".

SOP is to take you to where the pavement stops and point.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#23

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 01:05 PM)Mark Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 07:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote: Best way? Keeping their beliefs in fairy tales and tribal deities to themselves.


Or if their custom dictates that they spread the 'good' news they could at least politely ask their intended target if they would mind indulging them regarding a highly personal matter of great importance to themselves.  You know, instead of trying to come off as some kind of slick salesperson doing the target a big favor.


Nobody is forcing you to read their threads.
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#24

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 01:05 PM)Mark Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 07:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote: Best way? Keeping their beliefs in fairy tales and tribal deities to themselves.


Or if their custom dictates that they spread the 'good' news they could at least politely ask their intended target if they would mind indulging them regarding a highly personal matter of great importance to themselves.  You know, instead of trying to come off as some kind of slick salesperson doing the target a big favor.

I prefer them to stay silent. Regurgitating tired, old apologetics isn't a thing worthy of anything but scorn.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.

Socrates.
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#25

What is the best possible approach a missionary could take on an atheist website?
(02-22-2020, 02:05 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 01:05 PM)Mark Wrote:
(02-22-2020, 07:52 AM)Szuchow Wrote: Best way? Keeping their beliefs in fairy tales and tribal deities to themselves.


Or if their custom dictates that they spread the 'good' news they could at least politely ask their intended target if they would mind indulging them regarding a highly personal matter of great importance to themselves.  You know, instead of trying to come off as some kind of slick salesperson doing the target a big favor.


Nobody is forcing you to read their threads.
"Silence is consent."
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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