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A Piece of Evidence
#1

A Piece of Evidence
Looking at the state of humanity today compared to the time when Jesus was hypothesized to have existed I think all would have to agree that in the main, existence as a human being on this planet is vastly more likely to be more enjoyable, less uncomfortable, and longer lasting than it was then.  Any single human being can be an exception to this, of course, wracked with deformity, disease, malignant cultural milieu, bad luck, and so on, but in the main, we're a lot better off.  A lot.

To what can we attribute this tremendous improvement?

Increased fealty to a god or gods?  An increase in religion's intertwining in our social structures?  Greater adherence to the ten commandments, like #7?

I think everywhere we look across the world, these kinds of factors are in steep decline, and have been in decline for centuries, displaced, principally, by a broad increase in literacy and knowledge.

It seems to me that this fact is ironclad evidence no gods exist, as gods are typically imagined, because disobedience and disbelief in the standard doctrines of religion would have dragged humanity to a far worse state, over the course of twenty or so centuries, than to where we are today, a state of existence that is at this moment the best, because it's better than any preceding state.

We face possible cataclysm:  nuclear war, rogue asteroid strike, a virus with exactly the right properties to annihilate a whole species, environmental catastrophe of climate.  But should any of these occur no serious claim could be made that the occurrence was because religion was abandoned, or that an increase in religion would have stayed the occurrence.  All of these can be averted without invoking the supernatural, and, in fact, attempting to include the supernatural in the means to prevent them would have the opposite effect and make one or more of them more likely, and have greater devastating effect.

Look around at what makes your life something other than the drudge of sheer survival, makes most of its moments something to look forward to, not dread, and consider that virtually all of that promise and possibility is the product of not utilizing a god in our figuring out how to improve our existence.

That's very strong evidence.  The strongest I've seen.
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#2

A Piece of Evidence
Quote:To what can we attribute this tremendous improvement?

God is phony shit but god has nothing to do with religion.  God is merely the non-existent product that religion sells to gullible fools.

Religion, unlike god, does exist and to the general detriment of humanity.  Religion is about the power to control the masses by threatening them in the next world while their political masters threaten them in this world.  Meanwhile, those two groups of scumbags steal everything that isn't nailed down.

What has happened in the West is that the sway of religion has diminished to such an extent that most people are not hampered by it unless they are blithering fools like Stevie and Dripshit who are willing slaves to their silly fantasies.

If you want a generalized comparison apply your standard to the islamic world where religion still dominates the poor bastards and keeps them oppressed with allah shit.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#3

A Piece of Evidence
Not a very compelling argument, imnho.
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#4

A Piece of Evidence
It's the goddess.
Gwyneth.
We all know this.

Do Stevie and Drippy pray when they have chest pain ?
No. They call on science.
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#5

A Piece of Evidence
(02-05-2020, 06:00 PM)airportkid Wrote: Look around at what makes your life something other than the drudge of sheer survival, makes most of its moments something to look forward to, not dread, and consider that virtually all of that promise and possibility is the product of not utilizing a god in our figuring out how to improve our existence.

That's very strong evidence.  The strongest I've seen.

I'm currently reading a book on the Bubonic Plague of the 14th century which killed about 60 million people around the globe.  No matter how much they prayed and invoked god to help none was forthcoming.  Today the Plague pops up here and there around the world but it's stopped in it's tracks by medical science.   

Everytime I do the laundry I thank science. Everytime I turn the heat up on a cold day....science.  Everytime I open up my laptop and chat with you nitwits.....science.   A couple of weeks ago I started a thread about the greatest invention and I meant it as a tribute to science and engineering.   I agree we have some problems but on the whole we live like kings and queens and it's all because of science, not religion.
                                                         T4618
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#6

A Piece of Evidence
(02-05-2020, 09:25 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 06:00 PM)airportkid Wrote: Look around at what makes your life something other than the drudge of sheer survival, makes most of its moments something to look forward to, not dread, and consider that virtually all of that promise and possibility is the product of not utilizing a god in our figuring out how to improve our existence.

That's very strong evidence.  The strongest I've seen.

I'm currently reading a book on the Bubonic Plague of the 14th century which killed about 60 million people around the globe.  No matter how much they prayed and invoked god to help none was forthcoming.  Today the Plague pops up here and there around the world but it's stopped in it's tracks by medical science.   

You need the right cure for the right ailment. Prayer is useless. It takes hair shirts and self-flagellation to deal with a plague.
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#7

A Piece of Evidence
How many times has religion solved a problem rather than created one?

By the fruit shall ye judge the tree, said someone.
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#8

A Piece of Evidence
(02-05-2020, 11:54 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: How many times has religion solved a problem rather than created one?

By the fruit shall ye judge the tree, said someone.

“Religion is the greatest fomenter of hatred the world has ever known.” (H.L. Mencken)  Dodgy
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#9

A Piece of Evidence
(02-05-2020, 06:00 PM)airportkid Wrote: It seems to me that this fact is ironclad evidence no gods exist...

No. It's exceptionally strong evidence that religion is a detriment to society. Given that religion can't get people right you can pretty quickly conclude that they've buggered up the Divine too, though that was typically evident in a lot of other ways. But you can't use it to rule out god(s). The fact that the anthropocentric absurdities concocted by organized religion are a bane to society doesn't prove that no other gods exist.
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#10

A Piece of Evidence
(02-06-2020, 10:15 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 06:00 PM)airportkid Wrote: It seems to me that this fact is ironclad evidence no gods exist...

No. It's exceptionally strong evidence that religion is a detriment to society. Given that religion can't get people right you can pretty quickly conclude that they've buggered up the Divine too, though that was typically evident in a lot of other ways. But you can't use it to rule out god(s). The fact that the anthropocentric absurdities concocted by organized religion are a bane to society doesn't prove that no other gods exist.

No, but what it does tell me is that religion is not really a useful way to discern reality.
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#11

A Piece of Evidence
(02-05-2020, 06:25 PM)Dānu Wrote: Not a very compelling argument, imnho.

Against the existence of a god, I have to agree.  In that capacity, it just seems like an appeal to consequences.  However, as a rebuttal to the converse appeal to consequences (i.e. the notion that theism is some kind of necessary bulwark against decadence and societal suffering) so often put forth by theists, I think it works quite well.  Of course, I think such arguments constitute an unwitting admission of logical defeat.  After all, why resort to the supposed pragmatic value of believing a proposition if the logical case for its truth is as strong as you claim it is?

More importantly, I suspect that the inefficacy of religion in objectively bettering the human condition and the clear efficacy of science in that regard is precisely why it's become common for believers to insist that things are in fact degenerating and that we should all aim to return to some illusory golden age.  It's likely one of the reasons they'll often try to redefine what progress and devolution even are, so that improvements are cast as relapses and vice-versa.
The only sacred truth in science is that there are no sacred truths. - Carl Sagan
Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν τῇ φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστὶν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις. - Κᾱ́ρολος Σήγανος


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