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Miracle or Coincidence?
#51

Miracle or Coincidence?
The belief in miracles is nothing more than the conceit of the believer, that the creator of the universe deigns to interfere in the trivial life of an individual, but only those born in a particular area who cling to a particular cult. That conceit is best summed up by a bumper sticker I saw the other day: "Jesus loves you, but I'm his favorite."

It's honestly kind of sad that people are so desperate to feel a sense of belonging that they have to cling to the antiquated beliefs of a bunch of early iron age goat herders.
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#52

Miracle or Coincidence?
(02-04-2020, 07:18 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: ..It's honestly kind of sad that people are so desperate to feel a sense of belonging that they have to cling to the antiquated beliefs of a bunch of early iron age goat herders.

This bloke Steve would have to be one of the most ignorant, self-centred, patronising, know-it-all
cunts I've ever come across in decades on the net.  I can't help but wonder if he's not just winding
us up, and constantly pissing himself at our efforts to debate seriously with him.  I simply can't
believe that anybody living in the 21st century could believe—and promote—the bullshit he does.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#53

Miracle or Coincidence?
(02-04-2020, 02:44 PM)SteveII Wrote:
(02-03-2020, 11:36 PM)Chas Wrote:
(02-03-2020, 08:56 PM)SteveII Wrote: How do you know that the story was not a miracle? Be precise.

Which part of "easily explained by natural causes.  Every time." do you not understand? Consider 

How do I know that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow?  Because it does every time.

Well, that's your reason for believing it was not a miracle.

The sun and the east is not analogous. The specific set of events/circumstances the pilot went through have never occurred before and will never again.

Do you know for sure that it wasn't a miracle? Why?

I know because there is no evidence of the existence of miracles.  None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

Everything is explainable by natural causes and mathematics, e.g. the Law of Large Numbers.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#54

Miracle or Coincidence?
(02-05-2020, 06:43 AM)Chas Wrote:
(02-04-2020, 02:44 PM)SteveII Wrote:
(02-03-2020, 11:36 PM)Chas Wrote: Which part of "easily explained by natural causes.  Every time." do you not understand? Consider 

How do I know that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow?  Because it does every time.

Well, that's your reason for believing it was not a miracle.

The sun and the east is not analogous. The specific set of events/circumstances the pilot went through have never occurred before and will never again.

Do you know for sure that it wasn't a miracle? Why?

I know because there is no evidence of the existence of miracles.  None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

Everything is explainable by natural causes and mathematics, e.g. the Law of Large Numbers.

So then you don't know, you just think the evidence is lacking.

But realize that your second sentence is a metaphysical assertion - philosophical naturalism. It is not derived from observation.
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#55

Miracle or Coincidence?
(02-05-2020, 04:44 AM)SYZ Wrote: This bloke Steve would have to be one of the most ignorant, self-centred, patronising, know-it-all
cunts I've ever come across in decades on the net.  I can't help but wonder if he's not just winding
us up, and constantly pissing himself at our efforts to debate seriously with him.  I simply can't
believe that anybody living in the 21st century could believe—and promote—the bullshit he does.

I think he is a sincere Christian, and he's better informed than most.

He just hasn't figured out how to stop being an apologist yet.  He obviously doesn't give both sides the serious consideration they deserve.

And he still thinks philosophy trumps science somehow.
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#56

Miracle or Coincidence?
(02-05-2020, 01:29 PM)SteveII Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 06:43 AM)Chas Wrote:
(02-04-2020, 02:44 PM)SteveII Wrote: Well, that's your reason for believing it was not a miracle.

The sun and the east is not analogous. The specific set of events/circumstances the pilot went through have never occurred before and will never again.

Do you know for sure that it wasn't a miracle? Why?

I know because there is no evidence of the existence of miracles.  None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

Everything is explainable by natural causes and mathematics, e.g. the Law of Large Numbers.

So then you don't know, you just think the evidence is lacking.

No, I know the evidence is lacking.

Quote:But realize that your second sentence is a metaphysical assertion - philosophical naturalism. It is not derived from observation.

No, the second sentence is a description of observation, no metaphysics required.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#57

Miracle or Coincidence?
Quote:I think he is a sincere Christian

So was Torquemada.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#58

Miracle or Coincidence?
OKAY, back near the beginning I asked if that hose was a "will fit" part. Was a determination made regarding that? For the non-aviation crowd, a "will fit" part is one that "will fit" but that has not been made by a certified vendor with the appropriate quality control process observing the manufacturing of the part This goes on despite the fact that the non-qualified part fails, often at "inopportune" times. Think gray market clothing, but with lethal consequences.
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