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Islam: The Untold Story
#1

Islam: The Untold Story
A historian looks at the alleged beginnings of Islam.  Guaranteed to piss off Muslims but probably won't do much for xtians or jews, either.  Keep in mind the inane ramblings of Dripshit and Stevie while watching.  There isn't much difference between the available evidence for jesusism and islam.

Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#2

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-18-2020, 05:50 AM)Minimalist Wrote: A historian looks at the alleged beginnings of Islam.  Guaranteed to piss off Muslims but probably won't do much for xtians or jews, either.  Keep in mind the inane ramblings of Dripshit and Stevie while watching.  There isn't much difference between the available evidence for jesusism and islam.





Islam  was invented long after the Prophet died?  And? Am I meant to be shocked? 

Haven't watched the documentary yet. Does he mention that great a chunks of Quran were lifted from the Torah? 

He's preaching to the choir ,and this chorister doesn't require rigorous  scholarly arguments,on this issue. .  Islam is a huge organise religion. As religions tend to be, it is built on myth and folk lore.   Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#3

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-18-2020, 10:18 PM)grympy Wrote: As religions tend to be, it is built on earlier myth and folk lore.   Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Forgive my addition.
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#4

Islam: The Untold Story
Quote:Does he mention that great a chunks of Quran were lifted from the Torah?


Yeah, he gets there. 

Where he doesn't go is where Luxenbourg went.  That the koran was originally adapted from a Syriac language (probably heretical) xtian group which was forced out of the Eastern Roman Empire and into Arabia.  Now that's interesting shit.

And I also already knew about the coins and the lack of information on any "Mecca" at the time.

And how prescient of Mohammed's mum and pop to name their little bouncing boy Mohammed which means "the praised one."  Had big plans for the little tyke, it seems!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#5

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-18-2020, 11:55 PM)Minimalist Wrote: And how prescient of Mohammed's mum and pop to name their little bouncing boy Mohammed which means "the praised one."  Had big plans for the little tyke, it seems!

It's not exactly surprising. Most names have similarly sappy conotation, mine means crowned-headed.
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#6

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-19-2020, 01:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:
(01-18-2020, 11:55 PM)Minimalist Wrote: And how prescient of Mohammed's mum and pop to name their little bouncing boy Mohammed which means "the praised one."  Had big plans for the little tyke, it seems!

It's not exactly surprising. Most names have similarly sappy conotation, mine means crowned-headed.

Steven/Stephen? Steven is my first name, from the Greek for "a crown of laurels". I certainly haven't done anything athletically noteworthy enough to merit a crown of laurels- awarded for Olympic achievement.
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#7

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-19-2020, 01:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:
(01-18-2020, 11:55 PM)Minimalist Wrote: And how prescient of Mohammed's mum and pop to name their little bouncing boy Mohammed which means "the praised one."  Had big plans for the little tyke, it seems!

It's not exactly surprising. Most names have similarly sappy conotation, mine means crowned-headed.


It's a common name now.  It does not seem to appear anywhere prior to his "birth" ( or invention.)  Kind of like "moses" which is derived from the Egyptian root "mss."
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#8

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-19-2020, 02:10 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(01-19-2020, 01:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:
(01-18-2020, 11:55 PM)Minimalist Wrote: And how prescient of Mohammed's mum and pop to name their little bouncing boy Mohammed which means "the praised one."  Had big plans for the little tyke, it seems!

It's not exactly surprising. Most names have similarly sappy conotation, mine means crowned-headed.

Steven/Stephen? Steven is my first name, from the Greek for "a crown of laurels". I certainly haven't done anything athletically noteworthy enough to merit a crown of laurels- awarded for Olympic achievement.

Just be glad you're not named after a fucking apostle.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#9

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-18-2020, 11:55 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Does he mention that great a chunks of Quran were lifted from the Torah?


Yeah, he gets there. 

Where he doesn't go is where Luxenbourg went.  That the koran was originally adapted from a Syriac language (probably heretical) xtian group which was forced out of the Eastern Roman Empire and into Arabia.  Now that's interesting shit.

And I also already knew about the coins and the lack of information on any "Mecca" at the time.

And how prescient of Mohammed's mum and pop to name their little bouncing boy Mohammed which means "the praised one."  Had big plans for the little tyke, it seems!

 Just  finished watching the doco. Fascinating  although in no way conclusive imo. 



A niggle;  didn't like the way the the alleged historian kept referring to Constantine as the first christian emperor.   Christians  like to claim Constantine converted on his death bed, which I think is a bit too convenient.  

 My understanding is that the  First Christian Emperor was Theodosius . It was he who made Christianity the State Religion of the Roman empire. It was also he who permitted and encouraged christians  to murder pagans and anyone else they didn't like . Christians did that with gay abandon for the next 1000 years.
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#10

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-18-2020, 11:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-18-2020, 10:18 PM)grympy Wrote: As religions tend to be, it is built on earlier myth and folk lore.   Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Forgive my addition.

 Fine, although I think the addition is redundant . I think the phrase 'myth and folklore' implies earlier times. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#11

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-19-2020, 03:02 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(01-19-2020, 02:10 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(01-19-2020, 01:29 AM)epronovost Wrote: It's not exactly surprising. Most names have similarly sappy conotation, mine means crowned-headed.

Steven/Stephen? Steven is my first name, from the Greek for "a crown of laurels". I certainly haven't done anything athletically noteworthy enough to merit a crown of laurels- awarded for Olympic achievement.

Just be glad you're not named after a fucking apostle.

You aren't, either. Any alleged apostles would have had Hebrew names, back in the day. All the names have been anglicized (or just fucking plain old made up), have been for centuries. FWIW, if I had been called "Woodie", I wouldn't accept that as being part of the putative crucifiction post!  Big Grin
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#12

Islam: The Untold Story
Yeah, for Constantine's alleged deathbed conversion we are reliant on Eusebius, whose relationship to fact is shaky, at best.  However, Constantine's sons. succeeded him and Constantius in the East was an Aryan and Constantine II in the West was a catholic. 

There is no xtian symbolism on the Arch of Constantine but Constantine favored toleration, not oppression.  The last thing he seems to have wanted was religious strife.

Theodosius was almost 75 years later but more important he was after Julian the Apostate who wanted to reintroduce paganism and that scared the shit out of the jesus freaks who feared that everything they had stolen could be stolen back.  They were not about to let that happen.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#13

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-19-2020, 03:02 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(01-19-2020, 02:10 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(01-19-2020, 01:29 AM)epronovost Wrote: It's not exactly surprising. Most names have similarly sappy conotation, mine means crowned-headed.

Steven/Stephen? Steven is my first name, from the Greek for "a crown of laurels". I certainly haven't done anything athletically noteworthy enough to merit a crown of laurels- awarded for Olympic achievement.

Just be glad you're not named after a fucking apostle.

It's a fucking saint martyr. Is it any better? Personnaly I don't give a shit. It's a name and it's always a bit funny to see english speaker struggle a bit with the pronounciation.
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#14

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-19-2020, 04:39 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(01-19-2020, 03:02 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(01-19-2020, 02:10 AM)Fireball Wrote: Steven/Stephen? Steven is my first name, from the Greek for "a crown of laurels". I certainly haven't done anything athletically noteworthy enough to merit a crown of laurels- awarded for Olympic achievement.

Just be glad you're not named after a fucking apostle.

You aren't, either. Any alleged apostles would have had Hebrew names, back in the day. All the names have been anglicized (or just fucking plain old made up), have been for centuries. FWIW, if I had been called "Woodie", I wouldn't accept that as being part of the putative crucifiction post!  Big Grin

I pretty sure that is not what my mother was thinking.
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#15

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-19-2020, 04:21 AM)grympy Wrote:  Fine, although I think the addition is redundant . I think the phrase 'myth and folklore' implies earlier times. Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Mormonism was a shiny new religion at one time. We've witnessed cargo cults rise in our lifetimes.

My point, though, was that many if not most of the doctrines, tales and tales of Islam were lifted from two other religions -- both of which they despise nowadays.
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#16

Islam: The Untold Story
Yes, Thump.

And, at some level we must admit that every religion at some point was invented when some con man sat down and said "I know what happened."  Whatever original idea he had ( and it was almost certainly a man who did it, women are too honest) was later amended by succeeding generations of assholes who molded the original idea to suit their own needs.

The funny thing is that every religious moron on the planet knows this to be true..... except they refuse to apply it to their own particular brand of horseshit.

[Image: list-of-gods-you-do-not-believe-in.png]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#17

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-20-2020, 02:30 AM)Minimalist Wrote: Yes, Thump.

And, at some level we must admit that every religion at some point was invented when some con man sat down and said "I know what happened."  Whatever original idea he had ( and it was almost certainly a man who did it, women are too honest)

Notable exception: Mary Baker Eddy

And you can be damn sure it wasn't a woman who dreamed up Mormonism.  Nope, that took a pedophile sexual predator.

Quote:was later amended by succeeding generations of assholes who molded the original idea to suit their own needs.

The funny thing is that every religious moron on the planet knows this to be true..... except they refuse to apply it to their own particular brand of horseshit.

Yeah, all those other religions are just silly or evil or something.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#18

Islam: The Untold Story
She was pretty much a xtian.  I would classify her as one of the assholes who molded the original idea to suit their own needs.

But yeah.... mormonism is a pretty special brand of stupid.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#19

Islam: The Untold Story
Rofl2

I see "Min" made the list.  Thumbs Up
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#20

Islam: The Untold Story
Of course he did.  Just look at that silly hat of his.  What more do you need to be religious than a silly hat?

[Image: f1261184c618238ab7895122a4123ccc.jpg]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#21

Islam: The Untold Story
What is amazing is just how much of Islam is based on the moon-god cult which came before it.
There is an extensive academic body of work that shows this. I have it somewhere.
I'll look and post it.

BTW, Google "Dagon, the fish god" .... see his fish lips hat. Now look at the pope.
You got it. Fish lips. (I wonder if the know ?)
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#22

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-20-2020, 04:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: What is amazing is just how much of Islam is based on the moon-god cult which came before it.
There is an extensive academic body of work that shows this. I have it somewhere.
I'll look and post it.

And not just that. Many of their mores about the place of women in Islam were drawn directly from Bedouin culture -- likely in an attempt to woo the tribesmen, in the same way that Easter Sunday was placed in the springtime to woo Roman pagans.
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#23

Islam: The Untold Story
besides fucking a nine year old what is to be told?
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#24

Islam: The Untold Story
Islam is so much more barbaric than just that and.... hey.  Where'd you go?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#25

Islam: The Untold Story
(01-21-2020, 05:19 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Islam is so much more barbaric than just that and.... hey.  Where'd you go?

Who?  Schrodinger's Outlaw ROFL2
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