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why do bad things happen to 'good people'
#51

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 03:11 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: The same reason that good things happen to bad people, because there is no divine law anywhere in effect.

Partially true.

Never was there a law of protection offered.
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#52

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
Oh the "biblical reason", why didn't you just lead off with that? It is settled then. I'll just go ahead and add the "Harry Potter reason", bad things happen because, Voldemort.
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#53

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 03:35 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: I managed about 2 minutes before I gave up. 'God beats you because he loves you.' is a pretty horrible theodicy and tells me just about everything that I need to know about the believer.

Not what I said.

I said Agape' is the type of love that will allow pain, to help you be a better person or God will allow Satan to do whatever he wills if it pushes you towards eternity rather than live a happy life in wind up in hell.

This is more a kin to a father allowing his son to take full responsibility for some act that got him in trouble with the authorities, rather than pulling strings to get him out of trouble. It is far better for the boy to learn to use the families resources in dealing with consequences by taking full responsibility for his actions, rather than use the family to help him avoid responsibility.

In this case the authorities is the rod, and if a father would keep him from it it would spoil or make no good the child. this teaches the child integrity, and the need to up hold responsibility..

Getting him out of trouble/sparing the rod teaches the child nothing but to use other people influence to hide from his own actions and or evil.

This whole point sets up the larger idea that Agape' is not Storge' while both are considered to be a family love, Storge' what to preserve or protect, and Agape' allows for metered pain and still can be considered love.

The over all idea is God's love is not a love that keeps us from any or all pain.  This is not about beating children nor God punishing us.

The take away here is that God's love was never promised to be pain free.
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#54

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-06-2020, 05:28 PM)no one Wrote: Oh the "biblical reason", why didn't you just lead off with that? It is settled then. I'll just go ahead and add the "Harry Potter reason", bad things happen because, Voldemort.

ACCIO RATIONAL!
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#55

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 05:14 AM)Dānu Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 02:34 AM)brunumb Wrote:
(01-03-2020, 09:13 PM)Drich Wrote: youtube.com/watch?v=6DZnBbo7R7I&t=131s

This subject came up like 10 times and thought this would help


[Image: 1308189768001.jpg]

ben likened to kevin smith and is this the dude's approval? Got to say I'm not seeing any insuluts here I love the dude and kevin smith! both me in another life.
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#56

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 05:40 AM)Astreja Wrote: Diseases and genetic disorders don't care about how good we are.  Neither do earthquakes or tornadoes.  Add to that the fact that we and other people sometimes do stupid, dangerous things driven more by carelessness than malice, and the fact that sometimes someone's just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that's a perfectly adequate explanation.

ok so finish the thought.

So if there was an all loving and all powerful God, as you think, I think the bible says. why do bad things happen to 'good' people. why did the shooting in text church happen? why didn't God protect those two members?

That would mean he is either not all loving, or he is not all powerful or both.

That is the problem with a God who claims this.

Now...

If you want to be apart of a topical conversation, my video answers this paradox.
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#57

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
[Image: icon_quote.jpg]Drick:
The take away here is that God's love was never promised to be pain free.

By your own admission then, the magic sky wizard is a sadist.
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#58

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 05:44 AM)Minimalist Wrote: People who insist they are good people are not necessarily that.

I would have hope you known me long enough to know I do not believe there are any 'good people'. That the term good people is something reserved for the 'moral' or those who see themselves this way.
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#59

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 06:35 AM)Dānu Wrote: Why do bad apologists happen to good forums?

gosh, if you had a bad apologists among you wouldn't it then be easy to topically refute his position? to put him in his place citing the same book chapter and verse he is using?

If this were the case and I am a bad, inepth, apologist, yet not one of you addresses me topically, what does that make any of you?
Sun
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#60

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 08:34 AM)airportkid Wrote: It's a pointless question, like asking why aren't all forum contributors intellectually honest, or even just coherent.

For the believer,
Actually I would like to point out this is what MOST of you think is the believer's position. 
Quote:the practical question is best expressed this way:  How do you make a god keep bad things from happening to yourself?  That is after all the crux of the matter; no one gives a rat's ass what happens to other people until what happens to other people looks like it might be something that could happen to you.
This is what most of us think however, my video makes the distinction between this expectation and what is defined and actually offered.

Quote:For the believer, then, adherence to particular biblical precepts makes god do some shielding, although what's never definite is the degree of adherence required or what kinds of bad things get shielded to what degree.
again that is the expectation, which is why I took the time to define the types of love and more specifically showed that agape' allows for pain. You could be God's number one guy (consider Job) and because satan is the master of this world and everything in it He was allowed to make a run at Job. Job never did anything wrong. yet because satan is the mater of this world He decided to take everything God gave him, left him with nothing and clinging to life. So the idea of a good deeds= shield from God is not a biblical one. 

God does offer shielding for ever specific people with very specific tasks that would otherwise see that person dead before he could finish his task. Job was on of these people/All of God's prophets were. Once their jobs were done their shields were gone.

Quote: It's vague to the point that any difference between being divinely protected and not protected at all is indistinguishable, although the psychological ramifications for the believer are always going to be severe and often emotionally crippling when the protection appears to have failed, since the believer will have his/her grief compounded by feelings of guilt and inadequacy, and a sense of being betrayed, whereas the atheist will only have the grief itself to deal with.
which again is addressed in the video, by understanding the nature of God and what is actually promised.

Quote:A believer pummeled by badness will often feel resentment toward god for failing to provide shielding, and then feel guilty for allowing such irreverence to sully his/her necessary adoration for god.  It's an inescapable masochism that atheists never have to suffer.

Belief in divine protection = increased emotional trauma when bad happens.  So the next question is simply, who needs that?
which again is why i made the video. to clear up and correct the false expectation religion gives people here.
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#61

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 08:55 AM)Chas Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 05:11 AM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 03:35 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: I managed about 2 minutes before I gave up. 'God beats you because he loves you.' is a pretty horrible theodicy and tells me just about everything that I need to know about the believer.

Christianity is the Stockholm Syndrome, Masochism and the Battered Spouse Syndrome rolled into one.

[Image: a5f811570208af2be9191c525735b2fe--dysfun...onship.jpg]

book chapter and verse please...

oh, that's right. this is a meme made from what people think of God rather than anything from an actual source like the bible.

Do the rules here allow people to misquote?
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#62

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 12:43 PM)NorthernBen Wrote: Bad things do happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people.
I'll give you a quick example...
I got nothing for Christmas and Drich got felt tip pens.... Life is so unfair.

because jesus loves me.. and because of wal-mart and 10.00
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#63

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 02:45 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 05:40 AM)Astreja Wrote: Diseases and genetic disorders don't care about how good we are.  Neither do earthquakes or tornadoes.  Add to that the fact that we and other people sometimes do stupid, dangerous things driven more by carelessness than malice, and the fact that sometimes someone's just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that's a perfectly adequate explanation.

I was born with a genetic disorder that gave me a heart defect among other severe issues. Fortunately I survived (and no longer have to deal with those issues, except maybe an increased risk of mental problems) but it would be delusional to say I was saved by some divine being while others perished. Nope, it's just random chance.

It's like you are endorsing my video, but don't realize it because you clearly think it says the opposite of what it does say. If you watched the video before you spoke you could have constructed an argument that did not have you siding with me.
Quote: It was also random chance that caused the chromosome deletion in the first place. Where's the "intelligent design" there? God couldn't prevent genetic disorders from happening? Far easier to explain with evolution rather than god.
watch the first video.

God made adam. From adam created eve. God also made man outside the garden in his own image.
That's it sport.

The rest is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. ever hear of degradation? you old enough to remember Dittos? what happened to dittos after they were copied a few hundred times?

You are a ditto who's a copy of a copy of an intelligently designed being
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#64

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-05-2020, 03:24 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 12:43 PM)NorthernBen Wrote: Bad things do happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people.
I'll give you a quick example...
I got nothing for Christmas and Drich got felt tip pens.... Life is so unfair.

It's worse than that. He got post-its too. Damn.
the pen's were from Jesus' love and wal-mart and 10.00.
the post-its are because you mom loves me. Winking
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#65

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-05-2020, 10:18 AM)Mathilda Wrote: The thread title would be better if it was just 'why do bad things happen'.

That way the answer becomes far more informative as we can then explain cause and effect to Drich.

By specifying 'to good people' the answer becomes ... why not?

I would change the thread title to:

The problem of evil solved: why do bad things happen to good people

Clearly i wrongly assumed most of you knew of the theological paradox I was referencing here. as 10 of you used it or tried to use it when we were in the other thread.
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#66

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-05-2020, 11:39 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Bad thing: Attempted murder.
Good people: Me, age 7.
Gods involved: Zero.

I know with pansey parents now what happened to me would be considered to be attempted murder when I was around the same age. But I do not think the kid meant to stab me. he was trying to beat me up and steal my bike.. after he did in the stomach he dropped the knife and ran away. it was a switch blade so it did not make a long cut just a very bloody deep one. Didn't even go to the hospital. told grandma i stuck my self jumping out of a tree she patched me up.

Then was kidnapped at a national park for about "15 mins" (dude looked like anthony bourdain use to/wasn't him, as dude looked like that in the mid 80s)

boy next door intentionally broke my arm wrestling

was DDT'ed on the cement playground for not being white/playing on the white side of the play ground, and went unconscious for a while woke up eye swollen shut and everyone else standing around me looking at the pile/state i was left in face down in the pavement.

then had a wonderful always evil drunk dad who would beat the liter piss out of you daily.

This was just the stuff before I was 10 As I got older the discrimination kicked in pretty hard and I fought someone almost everyday for the end of middle school though high school. 

God's involvement: I didn't die. hey wait you didn't die either. maybe if more bad stuff happened to you, you would see how good you have it now and how God helped you then.

Because like the video says, this is satan's world. it does not belong to God.
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#67

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-06-2020, 05:54 PM)Drich Wrote: ... to clear up and correct the false expectation religion gives people here ...

Your bible itself contributes to that "false" expectation overwhelmingly.

From my own personal acquaintance with believers the belief that god is a protector is nearly universal, reinforced by biblical passages as above.  Your position (to the extent it appears coherent) seems to be one should never look to a god for protection.  From the atheist's standpoint, that's admirable.  People who have no expectation of divine protection tend to be more careful and less injurious to themselves and others; they take direct responsibility for the safety of their own conduct.

But your bible very explicitly declares and encourages otherwise.  You should take initiative and develop the Drich Redacted KJV and get it established throughout the world as the KJV's replacement - and make the world a considerably safer place.

You position does raise the question of what kinds of things do you request from your god thru prayer?  Anything asked for that constitutes intervention in this world amounts to protection, which you claim is absent.  That leaves only prayer for favor to take place after death.  And raises the rather important question of what purpose earthly existence even serves.

Heaven is nothing like earth, so earth has no lessons for existence in heaven.  What are we doing here?
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#68

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-06-2020, 06:04 PM)Drich Wrote: It's like you are endorsing my video, but don't realize it because you clearly think it says the opposite of what it does say. If you watched the video before you spoke you could have constructed an argument that did not have you siding with me.


I specifically said there's no reason to posit a divine being created us when genetic disorders exist. That's not siding with you.  ROFL2
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#69

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-05-2020, 01:52 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(01-03-2020, 09:13 PM)Drich Wrote: youtube.com/watch?v=6DZnBbo7R7I&t=131s

This subject came up like 10 times and thought this would help

Corrected link:  




I appreciate the time and effort you've put into producing this video, but your premise that
there are "good" things per se, and "bad" things, also per se, is erroneous.  As is your
assumption that a supernatural entity that you call "god" exists in the real world, and somehow
affects it physically—which is of course nonsensical.  Claiming that a god does this or does that
is effectively a non sequitur : an inference that does not follow from its premise.

Look at it this way, for example:  

•  At least 60 people have been killed as flash floods hit the Indonesian capital Jakarta on 2 January.
•  More than 23 people have been killed in bushfires currently raging across south-eastern Australia due primarily to drought.

So... if the more than 300mm (12 inches) of rain that fell on Indonesia had—instead—fallen on Australia,
would that rain have magically changed from being a "bad" thing to a "good" thing?

—Of course not.  Rain has no inherent sense of right or wrong LOL.

clearly you did not watch the video.

When will you people get, I do not bring the typical christian arguments to the table.

Your response while very well spelled out and grammatically correct does not even touch one of the subjects the video addresses. Not one. your whole rebuttal seems to be based on the stereotypical christian response. Sorry no. I gave you a biblical response and by gauging what you had to say it is clear to me what I said in the video you never encountered before.
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#70
Video 
why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-06-2020, 04:53 PM)skyking Wrote: Trump is king of the world? That's exactly the kind of reasoning that has us all ignoring you. I'm going to formalize it and put you on ignore.

where did I say "Trump was king of the world?" you are only seeing what you want to see. maybe step back take your righteousness down a notch and reread what I said.
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#71

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-04-2020, 05:40 AM)Astreja Wrote: Diseases and genetic disorders don't care about how good we are.  Neither do earthquakes or tornadoes.  Add to that the fact that we and other people sometimes do stupid, dangerous things driven more by carelessness than malice, and the fact that sometimes someone's just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that's a perfectly adequate explanation.

(01-06-2020, 05:36 PM)Drich Wrote: ok so finish the thought.  So if there was an all loving and all powerful God, as you think, I think the bible says. why do bad things happen to 'good' people. why did the shooting in text church happen? why didn't God protect those two members?

Drich, you completely missed the point of my argument:  Bad things happen to everyone, and no god is required to explain it.
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#72

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-06-2020, 05:37 PM)no one Wrote: [Image: icon_quote.jpg]Drick:
The take away here is that God's love was never promised to be pain free.

By your own admission then, the magic sky wizard is a sadist.

in the video sport.

rehashed that argument and took it to it's fullest conclusion. maybe watch the video before you pretend, get caught and prove you are not smart enough to be apart of the conversation without it.
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#73

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
(01-06-2020, 05:11 PM)Drich Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 02:39 AM)brunumb Wrote: Bad things happen to good people.
Good things happen to bad people.
Bad things happen to bad people.
Good things happen to good people.

Because ........ things happen!

No gods necessary.

The deeper point is the philosophical epicurean paradox or the "problem with sin."

The video was the result of 10 or more of you in the last video attempting to use "the problem with sin" argument. This video answers that old atheist go to.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

I go through the more modern version line by line and refute it, by 1 defining what is being offered by God verse the expectation.


But no one gives a flying fuck what you say.  

And no one will ever confuse you with Epicurus, either.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#74

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
[Image: icon_quote.jpg]Drick:
The take away here is that God's love was never promised to be pain free.

[Image: icon_quote.jpg]This guy:
By your own admission then, the magic sky wizard is a sadist.

[Image: icon_quote.jpg]Drick:
in the video sport.

rehashed that argument and took it to it's fullest conclusion. maybe watch the video before you pretend, get caught and prove you are not smart enough to be apart of the conversation without it.

Is that a yes?
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#75

why do bad things happen to 'good people'
Hey dingleberyrich, is it weird giving your sister a mother's day gift?
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