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creation/evolution the video
#76

creation/evolution the video
Quote:seek out information that only supports your position and pretend this is an authority in which all life is governed.


Irony is truly lost on a fucking moron like you, Dripshit.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#77

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 10:19 AM)SYZ Wrote: There is not one iota of empirical evidence that supports the notion of supernatural gods. 
Non-sequitur
I never said God has to be super natural. Please try and keep general christian stereotypes out of this discussion. God is the creator of the natural universe and as such would create it in such a way as to full fill his will in a natural way. What is the point of creating something naturally you have to bypass/supernaturally to work in your will?

Quote:Until (or more likely if) that evidence was produced and proved, then it's a nonsense to
even talk about "God's coming". 
came and went sport. What is to come is your death and a reconciliation. 
Quote:Despite a plethora of claims made predicting that—over
two millennia—it never happened, and in all probability it never will.
No wonder you hate it so much when I say other atheist have messaged me religious concerns or questions.. because in your heart or hearts there is still doubt



Quote:Even if God came and opened a porthole to the past and we could literally all watch it all play out as described in the bible. Science would still not bend the figurative knee.


Quote:Another non sequitur.  You're again presupposing that gods can exist in the real
world.  And absurdly presupposing that science would be cowed by proof of this existence.  
Too many "ifs" there mate
this is not a non sequitur as it follows to my point that there will never be enough evidence to cowel science. that to the end, those people will deny God. The statement above is a demonstration on how this might play out. even in the face of undeniable evidence God would simply be relabeled.

This is made manifest in cimmina already IE the die has been cast!

.

Quote:God will be identified by science as a transdimensional being with either tech that is beyond our comprehension or bio mental connection to some greater 'force' we do not understand yet.
Quote:A "transdimensional" being? LOL.  What does that even mean?   One foot in reality, and
one in mythology?
where is heaven? where is hell? gps coordinates? no?!?! Well then IF undeniable evidence did spring up the fact heaven and hell can not be found in this physical world that would make God an alien as he is not terrestrial, and because he resides in a different world different dimension he would be transdimensional.

Quote:However for the more open minded science is nothing more than how a natural God put his creation in order and maintains it.
Quote:A "natural" god?  What the fuck's a natural god in comparison to an unnatural god.  How
do you specifically define a god anyway?  I define gods as supernatural entities drawn
from the over-fertile imaginations of men who're intellectually challenged, fearful of things
they can't understand, who lack any self-assurance, or who're especially gullible and too
easily manipulated.

which is why your faith has failed you. you look for proof in fairy tales and of course you will not find it. look for a natural God and low and behold you just might find what you are looking for.
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#78

creation/evolution the video
(12-09-2019, 08:43 PM)Drich Wrote:
(12-07-2019, 06:09 AM)Chas Wrote:
(12-06-2019, 05:52 PM)Drich Wrote: For the same reason I tell christians who want to hang on to their original faith/reading of gen1.

This message is not for you..

It is for the one who struggles to want to reconcile their faith with what science has to say. to want to free believe in God and to go alone with whatever the current iteration of the theory states.

Your target audience isn't here.  Haven't you figured that out?
can't save the saved old sport.

Can't save those who believe your salvation is not real.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#79

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 04:52 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 04:45 PM)Drich Wrote:  educate yourself before you come off half cocked again

LOL  Half cocked?  Tongue    Provide falsifiable evidence your god exists.  Quoting the bible isn't evidence. The Bible is a book of claims.  It claims a god exists, it is not evidence a god exists.  If any part of your video references the Bible as a source then you've lost the argument right there, buddy.

The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are seperate.
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#80

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 04:45 PM)Drich Wrote: Not true what I offer can be falsified on an individual level through personal experimentation.

You continue to demonstrate that you have no real understanding of what falsifiable means. 
You don't understand the scientific method, nor do you understand what constitutes evidence.

You should really stop trying to argue on a scientific basis as you are utterly inept.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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#81

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are separate.

Actually sport, THAT is a non-sequitur .... while the quote above you called one, ... is not. 
You really ought to take a class in Logic and learn your fallacies.

Your gods and the Bible are separate. Humans wrote every word and all the contradictions and stupidity in the Bible.
The gods had nothing to do with any of it. For the most part, it's a political book, with the various groups of priests trying to belittle other groups of priests.

Get in line. You're yet another internet wacko who thinks he has found what everyone else has missed.
Not only are you not educated in this literature, you're not even a Christian. You're one of the "lone-wolfs" who thinks he can operate as a Christian on his own, and not in a community.
From the start, the distinguishing characteristic of Christianity was that it came in communities. You clearly are not part of one. Therefore you are not a Christian.

Scholars know how and why the two traditions of the creation MYTH ended up together. It's basic Freshman Bible Study. You should take Bible 101 some day.
It also makes no sense. You can't have evenings, and days when there is no sun and earth yet. They forgot that, .... simple "woops".
They got a lot of it from the Babylonian myth system which you ought to read some day. All cultures have their creation myths. The Hebrews borrowed a lot of theirs from surrounding cultures.
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#82

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are seperate.

Psalm 145:8-13
8 The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
Psalm 25
8 God is fair and just; He corrects the misdirected, Sends them in the right direction.
Psalm 116:5
Gracious is the Lord, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.

----

If God created man, God has to design man to create man.  That includes our moral nature.  God has three choices God can make.

1.  Create man with a bad moral nature.
2.  Create man with an indifferent moral nature.
3.  Create man with a good moral nature.

If God chooses 1. or 2., then moral evil must occur.  A good God with the listed attributes above must choose 3.  a good moral nature.  Obviously, we do not have that in this world supposedly created by God.  Libertarian free will is impossible.  Our free will is restrained by our created moral nature, which is God's choice.  If God does not choose 3., a good moral nature for all sentient beings, God is not fair, just, merciful or compassionate.  Especially in a person created moral evil or indifferent is sent to hell or denied entry to heaven for faults created by God.

We do not live in a world where we are all created with a good moral nature, so the God of the Bible who is described as good, merciful, compassionate, just and fair does not exist.

There.  God falsified as per Popper, just for you.  This I call the Nature Of Man argument, which disproves the God of the Bible.  How many more disproofs do you need?
And my little boy named my truck "Giddyup gah gah gah!"  Isn't he cute?  He's only eight.



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#83

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God.

(thumps Drich on the head with a hardbound copy of the Annotated Legends from her Dragonlance collection)  And here is evidence for the Master of Past and Present.   Big Grin
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#84

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: If God created man, God has to design man to create man.  That includes our moral nature.  God has three choices God can make.

1.  Create man with a bad moral nature.
2.  Create man with an indifferent moral nature.
3.  Create man with a good moral nature.

So you think you know what your god faced and that he had the same limited choices you can cook up.
Romans 11:34 "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?"

Any real god can do whatever he wants, and if he's a real god, any outcome would be possible.
A god that "must" do anything is no god. Either god is master of Reality, or it's not. Apparently yours is not.

No one is going down the little rabbit hole you are trying to lure us into ... to play your infantile game of Babble Duel, so you can claim to "shellac" someone.

Quote:There.  God falsified as per Popper, just for you.  This I call the Nature Of Man argument, which disproves the God of the Bible.  How many more disproofs do you need?

Bullshit. Meaningless drivel. It's a meaningless pile of crap, and disproves nothing.
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#85

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:06 PM)Drich Wrote: ...In truth the article only seeks out what scientists have to say about religion, it does not include the the voice of the religious has to say about science. Which in the 'real world' is a far greater number as religious people outweigh actual scientists.

This has to be the most illogical assertion I've heard from you mate. A "religious" person believes
in mythical gods and heaven and hell.  If you want to blindly follow them rather than the estimated
6 million scientists in the world, that's your prerogative of course.  But it does tend to explain why
your world view is so limited.

EDIT:  Oh, I've just noticed this tidbit:

Quote:The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God.

No, nothing in the bible is falsifiable.  I'm guessing you don't know what the term actually means.

If I claim that the sodium chloride molecule has 2 sodium ions + 1 chloride ion, then that's falsifiable.
That Jesus fed the 5,000 with five loaves and two fishes is unfalsifiable—although of course bullshit.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#86

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 04:52 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 04:45 PM)Drich Wrote:  educate yourself before you come off half cocked again

LOL  Half cocked?  Tongue    Provide falsifiable evidence your god exists.  Quoting the bible isn't evidence. The Bible is a book of claims.  It claims a god exists, it is not evidence a god exists.  If any part of your video references the Bible as a source then you've lost the argument right there, buddy.

The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are seperate.


You have no idea what falsifiable means, do you? 

Scientists don't try to prove a hypothesis is true, they try to prove it is false.  It's only when you put a hypothesis through a gauntlet of tests to disprove it will you know if it's true or not and only then, after decades. even hundreds of years of testing,  might it be considered a theory.   Your hypothesis is that your supernatural god exists. The big problem is how do you disprove the claim that your supernatural being doesn't exist.   You can't because you cannot define it in a way that is testable and if you can't test it you cannot falsify it.  You cannot falsify any imaginary beings.   You cannot falsify the invisible, magical Garden Fairy that lives in my garden.....go ahead and try,  try to disprove that my Garden Fairy doesn't exist.   You cannot falsify any of the Hindu gods either.   Think about it, your god, all Hindu gods and my invisible Garden Fairy  are equally nonfalsifiable.
                                                         T4618
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#87

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 08:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: If God created man, God has to design man to create man.  That includes our moral nature.  God has three choices God can make.

1.  Create man with a bad moral nature.
2.  Create man with an indifferent moral nature.
3.  Create man with a good moral nature.

So you think you know what your god faced and that he had the same limited choices you can cook up.
Romans 11:34 "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?"

Any real god can do whatever he wants, and if he's a real god, any outcome would be possible.
A god that "must" do anything is no god. Either god is master of Reality, or it's not. Apparently yours is not.

No one is going down the little rabbit hole you are trying to lure us into ... to play your infantile game of Babble Duel, so you can claim to "shellac" someone.

Quote:There.  God falsified as per Popper, just for you.  This I call the Nature Of Man argument, which disproves the God of the Bible.  How many more disproofs do you need?

Bullshit. Meaningless drivel. It's a meaningless pile of crap, and disproves nothing.

The Bible defines God as good.  Which means all possible sub-goodnesses.

Psalm 145:8-13
8 The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
Psalm 25
8 God is fair and just; He corrects the misdirected, Sends them in the right direction.
Psalm 116:5
Gracious is the Lord, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.

That sets limits to God.  Now, if you (and some Christians) are willing to throw all of that out as meaningless, then we have achieved a sort of intellectual nihilism.  Words no longer have meaning, logic no longer is a useful concept.  If this is what one has to do to save the God concept, who will go there?

That God is master of logic and creates the metaphysical necessities is an old dogma, derived from the Simplicity of God.  Rene Descartes took that to it's logical conclusion in 1640.  But God is good, as per Bible.  God can have any state of affairs God desires, because God creates the rules of logic.  God could make man with a good moral nature as God enjoys, and a free will to do no moral evil, as God enjoys.  We do not live in that sort of world.

Logic is not something a perfectly good God creates, or we would live in a far different world than we do.  Down goes the God concept.  Naturalism rules, logic is outside and beyond any perfectly moral, merciful, just, fair, and compassionate God.

If you say we must take total intellectual nihilism as a serious concept, don't think many atheists will follow you there.  And bleatings from Christian that God is incomprehensible and inscrutable is just that, utter abandonment of logic and reason, and has been a feature of Christianity since Paul wrote Romans 11:33.  This is a poor man's skepticism and wore out it's welcome in the days of ancient Greece when some skeptics tried to argue for this nonsense.

Tales of Pyrhho need a keeper to keep him from falling into ditches because he refused to take anything as real including his own eyes and sense.
And my little boy named my truck "Giddyup gah gah gah!"  Isn't he cute?  He's only eight.



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#88

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:06 PM)Drich Wrote: ...In truth the article only seeks out what scientists have to say about religion, it does not include the the voice of the religious has to say about science. Which in the 'real world' is a far greater number as religious people outweigh actual scientists.

Actually that is hypocritical.
When religious people get sick, do they just pray .. "Oh Lord, cure me of the heart attack" ?
Nope. They call 911. They consult a scientist (a physician).
Every single religious person trusts science FAR FAR more than religion, when it comes down to brass tacks.
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#89

creation/evolution the video
Drich nobody has eleven minutes for you. Write a three sentence synopsis and maybe somebody will be curious enough to click on it.
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#90

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 07:39 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are seperate.

Psalm 145:8-13
8 The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
Psalm 25
8 God is fair and just; He corrects the misdirected, Sends them in the right direction.
Psalm 116:5
Gracious is the Lord, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.

----

If God created man, God has to design man to create man.  That includes our moral nature.  God has three choices God can make.

1.  Create man with a bad moral nature.
2.  Create man with an indifferent moral nature.
3.  Create man with a good moral nature.

If God chooses 1. or 2., then moral evil must occur.  A good God with the listed attributes above must choose 3.  a good moral nature.  Obviously, we do not have that in this world supposedly created by God.  Libertarian free will is impossible.  Our free will is restrained by our created moral nature, which is God's choice.  If God does not choose 3., a good moral nature for all sentient beings, God is not fair, just, merciful or compassionate.  Especially in a person created moral evil or indifferent is sent to hell or denied entry to heaven for faults created by God.

We do not live in a world where we are all created with a good moral nature, so the God of the Bible who is described as good, merciful, compassionate, just and fair does not exist.

There.  God falsified as per Popper, just for you.  This I call the Nature Of Man argument, which disproves the God of the Bible.  How many more disproofs do you need?

I believe it was Shakespeare who said, "That way a long and unsuccessful game of whack-a-mole lay."
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#91

creation/evolution the video
(12-09-2019, 08:07 PM)Drich Wrote: kinda the same precept but in the end most of those guys have to bend the bible or change what the bible or the theory says to make it all jive.

Where this differs nothing is changed in the bible. it is a straight reading with one none* tradition exception. that is to remove all time lines as none are offered scripturally. this allows for a straight forward reading without the need to change a literal 7 day creation.. IE no compromises to the faith.

Your one *known* (not "none"*) tradition exception IS "changing the Bible". Yes there are all kinds of time lines offered "scripturally" ... in fact it says exactly what it says : "Evening and morning, the first day" IS a "time line, and was put there for a reason, and not to taken out. Creation + the resting on the day of rest is also a time line. You also are "bending the Bible". 
You're not special.
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#92

creation/evolution the video
(12-11-2019, 01:18 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Drich nobody has eleven minutes for you.  Write a three sentence synopsis and maybe somebody will be curious enough to click on it.

I scanned it in about 30 seconds.  No production values.  Comes across as Drich thinking out loud in a monotone.  Low tech, low effort, fails save against Charisma.  Not even a good marketing vehicle for Post-It™ notes.
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#93

creation/evolution the video
I've watched your video 3 times now, the more I watch, the more sense it makes. I think you are absolutely spot on and I don't know how this hasn't been clear and obvious to me before now.

Oops, wrong thread.
He loves me?  Facepalm
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#94

creation/evolution the video
(12-11-2019, 01:18 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Drich nobody has eleven minutes for you.  Write a three sentence synopsis and maybe somebody will be curious enough to click on it.

I agree.  I actually watched the entire video—which was long-winded and repetitive.
A written summary of the highlights would've been appreciated, and be more likely
to have been considered, rather than dismissed outright (Drich please note.)
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#95

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 05:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are separate.

Actually sport, THAT is a non-sequitur .... while the quote above you called one, ... is not. 
You really ought to take a class in Logic and learn your fallacies.
then school me show me or explain how my statement is a non sequitur. (Ad hom name calling and red herring tactics in 3... 2...)

Quote:Your gods and the Bible are separate.
how would one know of God with out the bible? Can have knoweledge of God with out the bible.
Quote: Humans wrote every word and all the contradictions and stupidity in the Bible.
which like it or not is call canon. even comic books have canon, if someone hears of the hulk but never read a comic book or saw a movie then whatever he claims to be a hulk story is not apart of said canon and therefore not actual "hulk" material. just because someone says or claims to be of God doesn't mean it is even if God were fictional. So how much more important is canonical knowledge when it can be proven he is? you argument goes to pot when you assume anyone can add anything to a narrative and it considered to be official narrative.

Quote:The gods had nothing to do with any of it. For the most part, it's a political book, with the various groups of priests trying to belittle other groups of priests.
does bruce banner have anything to do with the hulk stories? does the hulk? yet there is still official marvel cannon concerning the hulk and there is fan fiction. Not just anyone can add to the lore. which is the point here sport. just because you think man made up God and God had no say the rules concerning official canon applies whether known fiction or absolute truth.
Quote:Get in line. You're yet another internet wacko who thinks he has found what everyone else has missed.
concerning the first 3 chapters of genesis I'm kinda the real deal sport.
And because you are arguing this red herring rather than content kinda prove my statement. because you can't google what i have shared and find anyone ever solidly refuting the points i made here.
Quote:Not only are you not educated in this literature, you're not even a Christian.
again proof you are not even intelligent enough to discuss the topic. You skip a contextual exchange and attack my intelligence and faith. in the world of logic and reason what you just did is akin to surrendering the subject matter. As again when people can refute the subject they will as it is the panultimate way of shamng someone. when they can't they call strangers names.

Quote: You're one of the "lone-wolfs" who thinks he can operate as a Christian on his own, and not in a community.
From the start, the distinguishing characteristic of Christianity was that it came in communities. You clearly are not part of one. Therefore you are not a Christian.
I am a weekly member of a 500+ person church what are you talking about?
oh, that's right none of this is actually directed at me... it is just someone flinging BS in hopes of offending me into silence or to tear me off topic.
Quote:Scholars know how and why the two traditions of the creation MYTH ended up together. It's basic Freshman Bible Study. You should take Bible 101 some day.
no I have studied in a jewish setting for some time and know exactly what they have said. if you look at some of my oldest posts you will see those arguments. I simply was shown a better understanding. one that does not contradict anything written or even presumed by science.
Quote:It also makes no sense. You can't have evenings, and days when there is no sun and earth yet.[quote] watch the video sport I explain in great detail and show you hw the bible supports everything I had to say in great detail.

[quote]They forgot that, .... simple "woops".
They got a lot of it from the Babylonian myth system which you ought to read some day. All cultures have their creation myths. The Hebrews borrowed a lot of theirs from surrounding cultures.
actually they didn't. What is written would only make sense to someone living well past the time this was written and if you take the time to understand what I have said you will feel stupid for even believing the BS argument that there was no sun before light.

What I have said in this video shows none of you who claims, light before the sun is what the bible teaches to be people who have never read the actual bible only the twisted word of the one who came up with and those who perpetuate this theory.
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#96

creation/evolution the video
(12-11-2019, 06:32 AM)Astreja Wrote:
(12-11-2019, 01:18 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Drich nobody has eleven minutes for you.  Write a three sentence synopsis and maybe somebody will be curious enough to click on it.

I scanned it in about 30 seconds.  No production values.  Comes across as Drich thinking out loud in a monotone.  Low tech, low effort, fails save against Charisma.  Not even a good marketing vehicle for Post-It™ notes.

Eh, I thought the video was okay. It's hard for me to be objective though, as I knew pretty much going in what he was going to put into the video, and so was largely only listening to confirm that my expectations and what he delivered were in agreement. I've certainly seen a lot of videos with a lot higher production values, but I wasn't disappointed in the overall quality. I don't know if this is his first video, but it was better done than I think I could have done. It was fairly well organized and fairly smoothly delivered, even if it didn't have a lot of the elements that experienced Youtube producers include.
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#97

creation/evolution the video
(12-11-2019, 08:42 PM)Drich Wrote:
Quote:
(12-10-2019, 05:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: [quote="Drich" pid='169194' dateline='1575999744']
The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are separate.

Actually sport, THAT is a non-sequitur .... while the quote above you called one, ... is not. 
You really ought to take a class in Logic and learn your fallacies.
then school me show me or explain how my statement is a non sequitur. (Ad hom name calling and red herring tactics in 3... 2...)

Quote:Your gods and the Bible are separate.
how would one know of God with out the bible? Can have knoweledge of God with out the bible.
Quote:Humans wrote every word and all the contradictions and stupidity in the Bible.
which like it or not is call canon. even comic books have canon, if someone hears of the hulk but never read a comic book or saw a movie then whatever he claims to be a hulk story is not apart of said canon and therefore not actual "hulk" material. just because someone says or claims to be of God doesn't mean it is even if God were fictional. So how much more important is canonical knowledge when it can be proven he is? you argument goes to pot when you assume anyone can add anything to a narrative and it considered to be official narrative.

Quote:The gods had nothing to do with any of it. For the most part, it's a political book, with the various groups of priests trying to belittle other groups of priests.
does bruce banner have anything to do with the hulk stories? does the hulk? yet there is still official marvel cannon concerning the hulk and there is fan fiction. Not just anyone can add to the lore. which is the point here sport. just because you think man made up God and God had no say the rules concerning official canon applies whether known fiction or absolute truth.
Quote:Get in line. You're yet another internet wacko who thinks he has found what everyone else has missed.
concerning the first 3 chapters of genesis I'm kinda the real deal sport.
And because you are arguing this red herring rather than content kinda prove my statement. because you can't google what i have shared and find anyone ever solidly refuting the points i made here.
Quote:Not only are you not educated in this literature, you're not even a Christian.
again proof you are not even intelligent enough to discuss the topic. You skip a contextual exchange and attack my intelligence and faith. in the world of logic and reason what you just did is akin to surrendering the subject matter. As again when people can refute the subject they will as it is the panultimate way of shamng someone. when they can't they call strangers names.

Quote: You're one of the "lone-wolfs" who thinks he can operate as a Christian on his own, and not in a community.
From the start, the distinguishing characteristic of Christianity was that it came in communities. You clearly are not part of one. Therefore you are not a Christian.
I am a weekly member of a 500+ person church what are you talking about?
oh, that's right none of this is actually directed at me... it is just someone flinging BS in hopes of offending me into silence or to tear me off topic.
Quote:Scholars know how and why the two traditions of the creation MYTH ended up together. It's basic Freshman Bible Study. You should take Bible 101 some day.
no I have studied in a jewish setting for some time and know exactly what they have said. if you look at some of my oldest posts you will see those arguments. I simply was shown a better understanding. one that does not contradict anything written or even presumed by science.
Quote:It also makes no sense. You can't have evenings, and days when there is no sun and earth yet.
Quote: watch the video sport I explain in great detail and show you hw the bible supports everything I had to say in great detail.

[quote]They forgot that, .... simple "woops".
They got a lot of it from the Babylonian myth system which you ought to read some day. All cultures have their creation myths. The Hebrews borrowed a lot of theirs from surrounding cultures.
actually they didn't. What is written would only make sense to someone living well past the time this was written and if you take the time to understand what I have said you will feel stupid for even believing the BS argument that there was no sun before light.

What I have said in this video shows none of you who claims, light before the sun is what the bible teaches to be people who have never read the actual bible only the twisted word of the one who came up with and those who perpetuate this theory.

The word canon relates that the body of work is approved by an authority, which is the basic meaning of "official," that someone or some ones in an office having authority have approved it. So who is the authority regarding God? There is none. Nobody has any greater claim to authority to speak to what is and what is not of God or about God than anybody else does. So then why do we have an official canon then? We have an official canon because certain someones decided that they were in a superior or privileged position to speak of, to, and about God and that therefore that made their canon authoritative and official. But here's the rub. Their claim to privilege and authority is only valid to themselves, as those who are not members of that group are not willing to concede the prerogative to decide such things and have authority over them to that group. So, essentially you have a group of people asserting that something is such and such, because they know that it is such and such, and anyone who doesn't know such and such, is simply wrong, because they lack that authority to declare it so. But, the problem is, that justification is not a logically valid justification, and so their conclusion, that they have the authority to decide canon and so on, is not a reliably true statement. It might be true, in spite of its foundation, but that would just be by accident. There is no reason to believe it's true just because it's canon, or even that it's canon because somebody says that it is. Canon, as such, is just a useful fiction used by the in-group to justify excluding things they don't agree with. I don't see that it is anything more than that, but I'm willing to be corrected if anybody has better insight into the meaning of canon than I do here.
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#98

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 07:39 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 05:42 PM)Drich Wrote: The bible is falsifiable evidence as it is the bible that tells us about God. where do you get your straw man logic from? You can't pretend God and the bible are seperate.

Psalm 145:8-13
8 The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
Psalm 25
8 God is fair and just; He corrects the misdirected, Sends them in the right direction.
Psalm 116:5
Gracious is the Lord, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.
as witness through the death burrial and resurection of his son to pay for our sins so that we do no have to live by the law as our only means to righteouness.

What that means is because of Christ God mercy is shown as NT christian do not live by books and books of law rather when asked Jesus only gives us 2. THEN provides forgivness when we break those 2

How is that not mercy? 
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Quote:If God created man, God has to design man to create man.  That includes our moral nature.  God has three choices God can make.

1.  Create man with a bad moral nature.
2.  Create man with an indifferent moral nature.
3.  Create man with a good moral nature.
We were created with an indifferent understanding of sin. (morality is not a standard of God it is the standard of man that we use to supersede God's righteousness.' Morality is basically how much sin are we willing to accept) and placed in the garden with the ability to choose for our selves whether or not we want to be responsible for sin by the way of the tree of knowledge. 

Before this tree was plundered none of the sins counted. After the tree sin only counted against adam and his descendants to the point of the flood where abominable things were taking place. their punishment was hard work for men and labor for women. Before moses and the law 'sin' was an obligatory thing. it was based on 'morality' then what we 'felt was right and wrong.' then after moses brought the law the rules solidified. Then came christ which again freed us from the law as a means to righteousness. The law still exists as it judges all non believers, but fr the faithful we have so much freedom under the law we can bind ourselves live as if we were still under the law.

Quote:If God chooses 1. or 2., then moral evil must occur.
by indifferent I mean neutral. we did not understand right and wrong before the tree. if we were born neutral then why would evl need to exist?

 
Quote:A good God with the listed attributes above must choose 3.  a good moral nature.  Obviously, we do not have that in this world supposedly created by God.
read genesis 2 and 3. we were created oblivious to sin/right and wrong. eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil made us aware of sin and thus responsible for it.

Quote: Libertarian free will is impossible.
agree the bible says we are slaves to sin. Freedom come via service to God.

Quote:Our free will is restrained by our created moral nature, which is God's choice.
not according to scripture our restraint is limited by our sin IE we can not live a life without sinning. As such the wage of this life is death. However if we choose (even slaves have been given the ability to choose from time to time) to serve God we can earn our freedom.

Quote: If God does not choose 3., a good moral nature for all sentient beings, God is not fair, just, merciful or compassionate.
This world does not belong to God. Do you know how in most theological paintings and even in mythos the devil character always runs the underworld? in this case the devil according to dante's inferno runs hell. not true. (that is how the devil temptation of christ had any power "bow down and worship me 'the devil' [and you won't have to hang on the cross] to have all nations worship you.)

God created this world and put us in charge. when we took and ate of the fruit we sold this world to satan and he became the master here in the world we live in. meaning we are all born into sin and serve our lives undersin. However God in his mercy has provided an out. he has given us an opportunity to choose to be free from the chains of sin and live without the specter of death over us.
Quote: Especially in a person created moral evil or indifferent is sent to hell or denied entry to heaven for faults created by God.

We do not live in a world where we are all created with a good moral nature, so the God of the Bible who is described as good, merciful, compassionate, just and fair does not exist.
because the one in control is not God. It is not supposed to be fair when the devil rules the world.

Quote:There.  God falsified as per Popper, just for you.  This I call the Nature Of Man argument, which disproves the God of the Bible.  How many more disproofs do you need?
that would have been nice if you where up on what the bible says, rather than what pop culture believes.
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#99

creation/evolution the video
(12-10-2019, 10:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 05:06 PM)Drich Wrote: ...In truth the article only seeks out what scientists have to say about religion, it does not include the the voice of the religious has to say about science. Which in the 'real world' is a far greater number as religious people outweigh actual scientists.

Actually that is hypocritical.
When religious people get sick, do they just pray .. "Oh Lord, cure me of the heart attack" ?
 
My shop teacher was also a preacher. and he had a heart attack and the doctors told him his heart was damaged and would need a new one @ 65 years old. He was not likely to get one so he prayed. walked out of the hospital the next morning the doctor saying all damage was gone/no blockages either.

Then my dad the monday before easter goes into the hospital to get a bypass no prayers needed as he was good with what ever the out come.. dies 3 days after the surgery from complication the hospital had not seen for 30+ years.
Quote:Nope. They call 911. They consult a scientist (a physician).
depends on the situation. you living in the west do not reflect the rest of the world's accessibility for medical care.
More people cry out to God for healing than can possible be seen by our current number of hospitals.
Quote:Every single religious person trusts science FAR FAR more than religion, when it comes down to brass tacks.

again depends on the situation. science has told me for almost 4 years i have cancer, they just can't find it so they keep testing. Prayer and God says I don't. This year my hematologist finally stated my numbers are normal for me. For millions if not billions of people God is al the medical care they will have.
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creation/evolution the video
(12-11-2019, 01:18 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Drich nobody has eleven minutes for you.  Write a three sentence synopsis and maybe somebody will be curious enough to click on it.

the synopsis is in the title.
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