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The Valley is burning...
#1

The Valley is burning...
https://abc7news.com/saddleridge-fire-bu...h/5610243/ 

The Saddleridge Fire is at 4600 acres with 0% containment. Sylmar to Porter Ranch in the San Fernando Valley. UPDATE: The 210, 5, and 14 freeways are shut down in the area.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
Carl Sagan
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#2

The Valley is burning...
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#3

The Valley is burning...
And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.
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#4

The Valley is burning...
At risk of creating something that needs to be separated by admin into its own thread, I follow disabled Twitter (since I am disabled), and through that, I was made aware of a death in Placer County (near Sacramento) that someone died due to the shutoff (CPAP? O2? Not exactly sure and can't find it again).
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
Carl Sagan
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#5

The Valley is burning...
That's horrible. People complaining about spoiled food, and that happens.
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#6

The Valley is burning...
(10-11-2019, 01:46 PM)c172 Wrote: At risk of creating something that needs to be separated by admin into its own thread, I follow disabled Twitter (since I am disabled), and through that, I was made aware of a death in Placer County (near Sacramento) that someone died due to the shutoff (CPAP? O2? Not exactly sure and can't find it again).

85 people died in the Camp fire. No matter what PG&E does, they're gonna catch flak.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#7

The Valley is burning...
The Santa Rosa fire was horrible too, and was pretty much proven to be power lines in high wind.
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#8

The Valley is burning...
(10-11-2019, 01:14 PM)skyking Wrote: And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.

If they actually had their shit together they'd have been working for years to bury all these rural power lines (and whatever other measures are necessary) so they can't short out in the wind and taking other measures in the light of climate change, not least getting the hell off fossil fuels.

Besides, this is so pointy-haired-boss. "So they're going to hold us legally and financially responsible for these other fires? Fine, we'll just plunge everyone into darkness for days and they'll be begging us to let them give us a liability waiver to keep the power on in the future."
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#9

The Valley is burning...
Do you understand the physics of power transmission? The long haul stuff has to be arial, and even shorter runs the cable sizing goes up when you take the air away. It is a logistical nightmare.
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#10

The Valley is burning...
(10-11-2019, 11:44 PM)mordant Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 01:14 PM)skyking Wrote: And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.

If they actually had their shit together they'd have been working for years to bury all these rural power lines (and whatever other measures are necessary) so they can't short out in the wind and taking other measures in the light of climate change, not least getting the hell off fossil fuels.

Besides, this is so pointy-haired-boss. "So they're going to hold us legally and financially responsible for these other fires? Fine, we'll just plunge everyone into darkness for days and they'll be begging us to let them give us a liability waiver to keep the power on in the future."

You're in rural NY state, right? Are your power lines underground?

On a lighter note, one of my brothers and one of my sisters live where the fire is raging. My brother dodged it completely, and my sister is seeing drops of water and fire retardant about a mile away, but she is not threatened.
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#11

The Valley is burning...
I live in San Diego, so I am clear by probably 130 mi.

But our weather is similar.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
Carl Sagan
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#12

The Valley is burning...
(10-11-2019, 01:46 PM)c172 Wrote: At risk of creating something that needs to be separated by admin into its own thread, I follow disabled Twitter (since I am disabled), and through that, I was made aware of a death in Placer County (near Sacramento) that someone died due to the shutoff (CPAP? O2? Not exactly sure and can't find it again).

Firstly, I'm hoping you have an adequate advance power supply (or whatever) mate, and
please take care if any of these fires threaten you.  My advice: move out early regardless
of any/all high-risk fire warning levels.  And I say this as someone who lives in one of the
most bushfire probe areas of Australia.

Secondly;  I'm guessing you're referring to this report?

Autopsy says Northern California man’s death wasn’t caused by PG&E power shut-off

A Northern California man died approximately 12 minutes after power was cut to his home
and the surrounding area, fire officials in the town of Pollock Pines said. However, an autopsy
said the outage was not the cause of his death... Robert Mardis had a clinical history
of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease... Before the outage, his daughter Aldea Mardis
brought her parents to her house where she had oxygen tanks for her father.

The man’s medical device required electricity to run, but Aldea said the family was ready
with equipment that was battery-powered.

Aldea said that she would probably not pursue litigation over the matter.  Well, fuck
me... that's nice [sic ] of her, considering the outage had nothing to do with her father's death.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#13

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 03:00 AM)c172 Wrote: I live in San Diego, so I am clear by probably 130 mi.

But our weather is similar.
I used to live on Jewel St. in La Jolla.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#14

The Valley is burning...
(10-11-2019, 01:14 PM)skyking Wrote: And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.

As much as I dislike the idea of potentially having no internet, I understand why they're doing it.
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#15

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 10:46 AM)SYZ Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 01:46 PM)c172 Wrote: At risk of creating something that needs to be separated by admin into its own thread, I follow disabled Twitter (since I am disabled), and through that, I was made aware of a death in Placer County (near Sacramento) that someone died due to the shutoff (CPAP? O2? Not exactly sure and can't find it again).

Firstly, I'm hoping you have an adequate advance power supply (or whatever) mate, and
please take care if any of these fires threaten you.  My advice: move out early regardless
of any/all high-risk fire warning levels.  And I say this as someone who lives in one of the
most bushfire probe areas of Australia.

Secondly;  I'm guessing you're referring to this report?

Autopsy says Northern California man’s death wasn’t caused by PG&E power shut-off

A Northern California man died approximately 12 minutes after power was cut to his home
and the surrounding area, fire officials in the town of Pollock Pines said. However, an autopsy
said the outage was not the cause of his death... Robert Mardis had a clinical history
of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease... Before the outage, his daughter Aldea Mardis
brought her parents to her house where she had oxygen tanks for her father.

The man’s medical device required electricity to run, but Aldea said the family was ready
with equipment that was battery-powered.

Aldea said that she would probably not pursue litigation over the matter.  Well, fuck
me... that's nice [sic ] of her, considering the outage had nothing to do with her father's death.

Yup, that was it. Interesting!

I did go to uni in the city of Sacramento, but I'm in San Diego now, 200km on the other side of L.A. We're certainly prone to brush activity, though. San Diego Fire Rescue, in addition to a normal complement of brush engines, has three of its own copters, and CAL FIRE, a statewide rural fire agency, has those kinds of assets, plus access to various planes, including a Boeing 737 I'd never seen before, doing dumps, as well as the DC-10s that were used by Fire Rescue New South Wales a while back. 

Anyhow, I'm rambling. we're looking pretty good in our county right now. But now I'm going to find CAL FIRE's active fire list, out of curiosity.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
Carl Sagan
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#16

The Valley is burning...
(10-11-2019, 01:14 PM)skyking Wrote: And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.

I have to disagree on this one. Massive power shutoffs when winds exceed 25 mph is not a sustainable solution. Red flag warnings occur with frequency here this time of year. So ratepayers are just supposed to live with the lights flickering off and on for months at a time (while the utility still insists on handing out hundreds of millions in employee bonuses)?


For me to say that this profiteering utility that's traded on the stock exchange has their shit together, they'll have to fix and maintain their infrastructure so their power lines don't cause conflagrations in the first place.

My own local utility (SMUD) has power lines rated for far higher wind speeds and they don't have issues with fires caused by their equipment. The utility in the city where I work has 80% of their equipment buried.

Also, turning off all the power doesn't prevent all fires. Wildfires are also caused by dry lightening and cars or lawnmowers causing sparks. So the power shutoffs are equally or more about covering the utility's ass rather than public safety.

-Teresa
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#17

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 05:46 PM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 01:14 PM)skyking Wrote: And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.

I have to disagree on this one. Massive power shutoffs when winds exceed 25 mph is not a sustainable solution. Red flag warnings occur with frequency here this time of year. So ratepayers are just supposed to live with the lights flickering off and on for months at a time (while the utility still insists on handing out hundreds of millions in employee bonuses)?


For me to say that this profiteering utility that's traded on the stock exchange has their shit together, they'll have to fix and maintain their infrastructure so their power lines don't cause conflagrations in the first place.

My own local utility (SMUD) has power lines rated for far higher wind speeds and they don't have issues with fires caused by their equipment. The utility in the city where I work has 80% of their equipment buried.

Also, turning off all the power doesn't prevent all fires. Wildfires are also caused by dry lightening and cars or lawnmowers causing sparks. So the power shutoffs are equally or more about covering the utility's ass rather than public safety.

-Teresa


And since, as has been shown, loss of power too can be deadly they need to limit power shut offs more discriminately .. the way we would expect to be done if it was a government run operation.  As it should be.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#18

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 11:06 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 03:00 AM)c172 Wrote: I live in San Diego, so I am clear by probably 130 mi.

But our weather is similar.
I used to live on Jewel St. in La Jolla.

I lived in Bird Rock in the mid/late 80's.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
Carl Sagan
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#19

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 06:31 PM)c172 Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 11:06 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 03:00 AM)c172 Wrote: I live in San Diego, so I am clear by probably 130 mi.

But our weather is similar.
I used to live on Jewel St. in La Jolla.

I lived in Bird Rock in the mid/late 80's.
Same time as me. Did you ride a motorcycle?
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#20

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 12:04 AM)skyking Wrote: Do you understand the physics of power transmission? The long haul stuff has to be arial, and even shorter runs the cable sizing goes up when you take the air away. It is a logistical nightmare.


It costs money to trim the trees away from the power lines.  Utility companies hate that!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#21

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 12:34 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 11:44 PM)mordant Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 01:14 PM)skyking Wrote: And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.

If they actually had their shit together they'd have been working for years to bury all these rural power lines (and whatever other measures are necessary) so they can't short out in the wind and taking other measures in the light of climate change, not least getting the hell off fossil fuels.

Besides, this is so pointy-haired-boss. "So they're going to hold us legally and financially responsible for these other fires? Fine, we'll just plunge everyone into darkness for days and they'll be begging us to let them give us a liability waiver to keep the power on in the future."

You're in rural NY state, right? Are your power lines underground?

On a lighter note, one of my brothers and one of my sisters live where the fire is raging. My brother dodged it completely, and my sister is seeing drops of water and fire retardant about a mile away, but she is not threatened.

Here's hoping they remain safe, brotha.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#22

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 03:00 AM)c172 Wrote: I live in San Diego, so I am clear by probably 130 mi.

But our weather is similar.

Fires driven by Santa Anas are part of living in California.

Man proposes, nature disposes.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#23

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 08:42 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 12:04 AM)skyking Wrote: Do you understand the physics of power transmission? The long haul stuff has to be arial, and even shorter runs the cable sizing goes up when you take the air away. It is a logistical nightmare.


It costs money to trim the trees away from the power lines.  Utility companies hate that!
if the power company got what they wanted they cut the trees back 150 ft each side of the lines. Unfortunately people like their trees too much. Trimming them doesn't do shit when the entire tree blows down.
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#24

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 11:02 PM)skyking Wrote: if the power company got what they wanted they cut the trees back 150 ft each side of the lines. Unfortunately people like their trees too much. Trimming them doesn't do shit when the entire tree blows down.

PEC down here maintain a swathe probably 75' wide here on the lines feeding the substation a mile from my place. It's already ranchland so doesn't get much attention. It's as fuel-dense as chaparral, easy.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#25

The Valley is burning...
(10-12-2019, 05:46 PM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(10-11-2019, 01:14 PM)skyking Wrote: And everybody slammed PG & E for precautionary blackouts. I for one think they had their shit together for this event.

I have to disagree on this one. Massive power shutoffs when winds exceed 25 mph is not a sustainable solution. Red flag warnings occur with frequency here this time of year. So ratepayers are just supposed to live with the lights flickering off and on for months at a time (while the utility still insists on handing out hundreds of millions in employee bonuses)?


For me to say that this profiteering utility that's traded on the stock exchange has their shit together, they'll have to fix and maintain their infrastructure so their power lines don't cause conflagrations in the first place.

My own local utility (SMUD) has power lines rated for far higher wind speeds and they don't have issues with fires caused by their equipment. The utility in the city where I work has 80% of their equipment buried.

Also, turning off all the power doesn't prevent all fires. Wildfires are also caused by dry lightening and cars or lawnmowers causing sparks. So the power shutoffs are equally or more about covering the utility's ass rather than public safety.

-Teresa

 "Wildfires are also caused by dry lightening and cars or lawnmowers causing ---"

Also by spontaneous combustion  from  long grass and undergrowth . Also via broken glass in grass etc, it acts like a magnifying glass.   Here in Oz we also have the problem of bushfires caused by arson. 

https://www.thespruce.com/preventing-hom...es-1398180
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