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Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
#1

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...-religion/

The Christian Right Is Helping Drive Liberals Away From Religion

...
But when two sociologists, Michael Hout and Claude Fischer, began to look at possible explanations for why so many Americans were suddenly becoming secular, those conventional reasons couldn’t explain why religious affiliation started to fall in the mid-1990s. Demographic and generational shifts also couldn’t fully account for why liberals and moderates were leaving in larger numbers than conservatives. In a paper published in 2002, they offered a new theory: Distaste for the Christian right’s involvement with politics was prompting some left-leaning Americans to walk away from religion.
...

Other research showed that the blend of religious activism and Republican politics likely played a significant role in increasing the number of religiously unaffiliated people. One study, for instance, found that something as simple as reading a news story about a Republican who spoke in a church could actually prompt some Democrats to say they were nonreligious. “It’s like an allergic reaction to the mixture of Republican politics and religion,” said David Campbell, a political scientist at the University of Notre Dame and one of the study’s co-authors.
....

An interesting article.  Toxic religion repels liberals. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/u...png?w=1150
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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#2

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
Traditionally religion comes "in community".
Christianity has (almost) always come "in community", (except for the hermits and Desert Fathers) and a few other exceptions.
As individualism comes to be more and more highly valued, community values are devalued.
Thus values that are 'heretical' (outside the community) are rejected. That seems to be a thing of the past.

One has to wonder if Christian Evangelical leaders ever took an ethics course in their training ... in which they would have certainly been exposed to "the ends justify the means", and how wrong that can be.
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#3

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
I feel that people's political beliefs inform their religious beliefs more than the other way around. I think it works both ways, but I think more and more, people are identifying based on political beliefs. This might be because of the increased polarization in politics.
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#4

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
(09-20-2019, 01:02 PM)RobbyPants Wrote: I feel that people's political beliefs inform their religious beliefs more than the other way around. I think it works both ways, but I think more and more, people are identifying based on political beliefs. This might be because of the increased polarization in politics.

I'm undecided on this chicken-or-egg question other than to say that the influence must travel in both directions; the question is, which one predominates. The answer to that question may vary in different contexts.

In the US, evangelicals prior to the 1950s for sure and mostly prior to the 1980s considered political involvement to be beneath them and their lofty spiritual concerns. It was feared this would lead to "the social gospel", the notion that public policy apart from spiritual shibboleths was sufficient to improve people's lives and outlooks. In the past 2 or 3 generations, however, the increasing secularization of society caused them to fear their waning influence, and they began to seek political influence to forestall or offset that. (Some groups, like the JWs, took a different tack: they just discouraged their children from pursuing higher education at all, since that is where they could see they were losing the younger generation in droves. This was a more understandable position for a more apocalyptic cult. Evangelicals on the other hand just established their own institutions of higher learning, to try to maintain an overtly "Christian atmosphere" in which to study even if, in order to obtain necessary state accreditation, they still had to "teach" evil-oution).

But once Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and some other less recognized but still influential names kicked off this influence-peddling project, they quickly got drunk on power and began to overlook things they would NEVER have overlooked before. ANY leader had their support if that leader was willing to work at least covertly to undermine "godless" liberal projects. ANY opponent would be gaslighted as "godless" agents of Satan, etc. That led to the situation we're in today, where they have become totally ruthless in their pursuit of things that will help them hold onto power, and unholy alliances with overt white supremacists for example.

From all this I conclude that here in the US at least it has been Christianity that has more influenced politics, although, what conservative politics co-evolved into during the rise of fundamentalist political initiatives was obviously far more conducive to said influence.

For some reason, liberal Christians, whose kum-by-yah ethos is more suited to the Democratic Party platform, didn't have a commensurate political awakening other than in the more limited activist / SJW scene. The Bible can (and has) been interpreted as kindness and "mercy" to the disadvantaged and "least among us", but for some reason, you don't see the level of involvement from those folks. Indeed, what the numbers show is that the nones have gained at the expense of the liberal theists far more than the fundamentalists. It's like the liberal Christians were already on the way out the door and their distaste over the actions of their fundamentalist brethren just hastened the process. I would have rather seen them push back against the fundamentalist wing of Christianity and push for an evolution of Christianity as a whole into a kindler, gentler direction. Instead, they have abandoned the center and enabled a polarization that may brings society down around our ears, at least for a time, and possibly even for all time.
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#5

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
(09-20-2019, 03:02 PM)mordant Wrote: It's like the liberal Christians were already on the way out the door and their distaste over the actions of their fundamentalist brethren just hastened the process.

This is a pretty good summary of my situation. I was raised Christian & fairly conservative. I became more progressive with time to the point that I was quite liberal by 2014 or so. It was arguing with fundamentalist Christians & trying to support it with the Bible combined with trying to sit & read through it as an adult that finally pushed me to give up my beliefs.

(09-20-2019, 03:02 PM)mordant Wrote: I would have rather seen them push back against the fundamentalist wing of Christianity and push for an evolution of Christianity as a whole into a kindler, gentler direction. Instead, they have abandoned the center and enabled a polarization that may brings society down around our ears, at least for a time, and possibly even for all time.

I did push against the fundamentalists, but it never moved them. I still push against them to this day, but I'm glad to no longer be part of Christianity & wouldn't wish for anyone to still be Christian. If anything polarization is a better option than moving everything closer to fundamentalist Christianity.
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#6

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
(09-25-2019, 03:29 PM)isbelldl Wrote:
(09-20-2019, 03:02 PM)mordant Wrote: It's like the liberal Christians were already on the way out the door and their distaste over the actions of their fundamentalist brethren just hastened the process.

This is a pretty good summary of my situation. I was raised Christian & fairly conservative. I became more progressive with time to the point that I was quite liberal by 2014 or so. It was arguing with fundamentalist Christians & trying to support it with the Bible combined with trying to sit & read through it as an adult that finally pushed me to give up my beliefs.

(09-20-2019, 03:02 PM)mordant Wrote: I would have rather seen them push back against the fundamentalist wing of Christianity and push for an evolution of Christianity as a whole into a kindler, gentler direction. Instead, they have abandoned the center and enabled a polarization that may brings society down around our ears, at least for a time, and possibly even for all time.

I did push against the fundamentalists, but it never moved them. I still push against them to this day, but I'm glad to no longer be part of Christianity & wouldn't wish for anyone to still be Christian. If anything polarization is a better option than moving everything closer to fundamentalist Christianity.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Mine was different, obviously; I never liberalized my beliefs, I went straight for the exit, as I was forced by cognitive dissonance and personal suffering that I had to figure out how to effectively deal / cope with. Also in a crazy way, liberal Christianity never appealed to my linear / literally inclined mind. Part of the appeal of fundamentalism was its clarity about what it "stood for"; near as I could tell at that point in my life, liberal Christianity "stood for" whichever way the wind seemed to be blowing. I now understand that to be an uncharitable read, of course, but it was all I was capable of at the time -- basically, if this is all bullshit, what's the point of putting up with different and less "principled" bullshit?

In a way, and for different reasons, I suppose it's not unfair to say that's the conclusion you ultimately came to anyway. You were able to be more open to a "kinder, gentler" Christianity at first, but ultimately "sitting and reading through it as an adult" caused you to see even the less toxic bullshit as more harm than good.

Good point you made that even if liberals confront fundamentalists it is unlikely to change anything. I remember the disdain with which we viewed liberal Christians -- their embrace of the dreaded "social gospel", what we regarded as deviant sexuality, their insufficient moral outrage that amounted to "condoning sin", and so forth. One of my pastors condescendingly referred to them as "our weaker brothers in Christ". Still ... I am equally disturbed today with centrist Democrats who don't call out their GOP counterparts for their complicity in Trump's criminal enterprise -- thus making themselves complicit. Sometimes a stand is important even if it's unlikely to change hearts and minds, and I'm glad that you took such a stand, quixotic though it may have been.
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#7

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
I see the liberal influence as a conscience of sorts for the church. Without some "weaker brothers in Christ" around, more outrageous crap would be said and accepted.
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#8

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
Even the conservative wing of Christianity is a lot more liberal than it was, say, 200 years ago. To say nothing of 500 to 1,000 years ago.
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#9

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
Demographics eroding the base, is my take on it. Young people tend to be more irreligious and more liberal.

I think this is another ripple from the 60s, myself. Kids at the time became parents, and felt less need to enforce conformity upon their kids, I think.

The basic premise is right: combining religion and politics doubles the likelihood of people being dissuaded from church. Some may be dissuaded from faith as well. You've added an extra variable that, by the by, is also laden with emotional investment.

I can't be sure about the causal relationship, though. I imagine it's interactive correlation, rather than linear causality.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#10

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
I think politics is riving many away from the left.

mavenroundtable.io/politicalstorm/conservative/the-left-continues-to-drive-people-away-7_splQwIj0qRFJybwRDCKg/
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...25529.html#!
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#11

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
Nobody cares about your PragerU propaganda.
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#12

Politics Is Driving Many Away From Religion
https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/01/...al-issues/

Millennials and Generation Z are more liberal (left) than older generations. Only 29% of Millennials and 30% of Generation Z approve of Trump's job performance, compared to the Silent generation's 54% approval of Trump. And the younger generations have very large percentages of Nones. 70% of Generation Z thinks government should be doing more to solve America's problems compared to the Silent generations only 39%. Not very much sign of abandoning the left or accepting Libertarianism.

https://www.people-press.org/2018/03/01/...-of-trump/
In the 2018 elections only 29% of millennials supported the GOP. Compared to 51% for Silent Generation.


Remember, Fact are your friends.
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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