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Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
#76

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 01:49 AM)Mark Wrote: I've decided the lungs are a piss poor way to get stuff into your blood stream.  If I ever get a hankering to enjoy some weed again I think I'd prefer to eat it.  Leave the airway for, you know, breathing.

I've had edibles that far surpass anything I've smoked, too, in terms of quality buzz.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#77

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 02:59 AM)grympy Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 01:49 AM)Mark Wrote: I've decided the lungs are a piss poor way to get stuff into your blood stream.  If I ever get a hankering to enjoy some weed again I think I'd prefer to eat it.  Leave the airway for, you know, breathing.

Don't know if I've mentioned this.

One day one of the office scamps brought along a plate of home made hash cookies. I only found out after the event because he knew I'm allergic to weed. (makes me vomit and I hallucinate) .  Anyway, the office was unusually quiet that  afternoon .  Stupid thing to do; our home baker would have  been sacked if he had been found out by some one without a sense of humour.

Here in the US, that's called poisoningDodgy
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#78

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 04:03 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 02:59 AM)grympy Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 01:49 AM)Mark Wrote: I've decided the lungs are a piss poor way to get stuff into your blood stream.  If I ever get a hankering to enjoy some weed again I think I'd prefer to eat it.  Leave the airway for, you know, breathing.

Don't know if I've mentioned this.

One day one of the office scamps brought along a plate of home made hash cookies. I only found out after the event because he knew I'm allergic to weed. (makes me vomit and I hallucinate) .  Anyway, the office was unusually quiet that  afternoon .  Stupid thing to do; our home baker would have  been sacked if he had been found out by some one without a sense of humour.

Here in the US, that's called poisoningDodgy


Not at all. All those who were given the cookies knew what they were given. 

 Same office. The husband of one of the women had one of the franchise "CheeseCake Shops" . Can't remember if this made it to the papers. Seems one of the bakers made a 'special cake' to take to a party.  It contained weed.  He put it aside .Somehow, it was accidently  sold, and went to a kids' birthday party. Several several kids and a grandmother ended up in hospital

As one  may imagine , the cheesecake hit the fan. Nearly  cost the bloke his franchise.THAT'S what WE call poisoning  here in Australia
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#79

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 04:43 AM)grympy Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 04:03 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 02:59 AM)grympy Wrote: Don't know if I've mentioned this.

One day one of the office scamps brought along a plate of home made hash cookies. I only found out after the event because he knew I'm allergic to weed. (makes me vomit and I hallucinate) .  Anyway, the office was unusually quiet that  afternoon .  Stupid thing to do; our home baker would have  been sacked if he had been found out by some one without a sense of humour.

Here in the US, that's called poisoningDodgy


Not at all. All those who were given the cookies knew what they were given. 

 Same office. The husband of one of the women had one of the franchise "CheeseCake Shops" . Can't remember if this made it to the papers. Seems one of the bakers made a 'special cake' to take to a party.  It contained weed.  He put it aside .Somehow, it was accidently  sold, and went to a kids' birthday party. Several several kids and a grandmother ended up in hospital

As one  may imagine , the cheesecake hit the fan. Nearly  cost the bloke his franchise.THAT'S what WE call poisoning  here in Australia

Guess I missed where they were willing participants. My bad.
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#80

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
The CDC found a connection on the vaping injuries to a common additive to THC. Vitamin E acetate is often used in oils and creams with no ill effect, but when the same diluted THC solution is heated, the acetate burns lung tissues.
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_inform...sease.html
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#81

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 02:59 AM)grympy Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 01:49 AM)Mark Wrote: I've decided the lungs are a piss poor way to get stuff into your blood stream.  If I ever get a hankering to enjoy some weed again I think I'd prefer to eat it.  Leave the airway for, you know, breathing.

Don't know if I've mentioned this.

One day one of the office scamps brought along a plate of home made hash cookies. I only found out after the event because he knew I'm allergic to weed. (makes me vomit and I hallucinate) .  Anyway, the office was unusually quiet that  afternoon .  Stupid thing to do; our home baker would have  been sacked if he had been found out by some one without a sense of humour.

Time to regulate what goes into vaping oils, and also nutritional supplements. People are killing themselves with both, while both can be very beneficial also. That's when I say it needs to be regulated and have quality inspections, just like food and drink. You want to know what exactly you are putting into your body.
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#82

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
Easy to see how the vitamin E acetate ends up in vaping oils. It is commonly added to THC and then gets marketed on the wholesale market as "THC". It is a disastrous situation.
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#83

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
This may seem a minor nit to pick, but I do wish the term "oil" would be dropped from use as a general term. I vaped for over two years and never once bought or made a vaping oil. Calling all e-liquids oils is incorrect. Oils account for less than half of the vaping products. Vegetable glycerin,propylene glycol or a mixture of the two are by far the most common liquids used to carry the flavorings and nicotine. The vaping of oils is almost exclusively within the domain of people looking to get high, not those looking to get their nicotine fix.

When properly mixed, e-liquids don't need the chemicals that are causing the problems doctors are starting to see, and their recent addition to commercially available liquids is the reason we've not seen these problems for a lot longer. Vaping has been happening for well over a decade now and the tried and true e-liquid blends have never caused these problems.

You need a degree and a license to mix two chemical compounds and sell it from a pharmacy, but any asshole with a grade school chemistry set and a $1000 stake can start a business making and selling e-liquids online. Regulate the crap out of these products, shut down the back-room and kitchen mixers that are selling their crappy, badly-mixed, often toxic products on the internet and you'll have a viable tobacco replacement, and possible cessation tool, to complement the pills, patches and lozenges. No one method works for everyone trying to quit, but all methods work for someone.

The calls to ban these products has more to do with peoples Pavlovian response to seeing someone doing something that looks like smoking than to do with any health concerns. I'd be willing to bet that most people, if told the patch would randomly cause fatal heart attacks in 5-10 percent of the people who used them, there would be little to no outcry and no movement to ban them, for two reasons. One, They're marketed as a cessation tool despite having a track record similar to cold turkey. Two, they don't produce a stinky* white cloud that we've all been trained to fear far beyond the actual health hazards.

*I think this is the single greatest reason tobacco bans have gone as far as they have. It's not the danger to others, but the stink that's driving smokers 25-, 50-, even 100-feet away from public buildings and in some jurisdictions, even open air public areas.
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#84

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 07:55 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: This may seem a minor nit to pick, but I do wish the term "oil" would be dropped from use as a general term.

What would be a more appropriate definition? I can only think of "E-liquid" which is the common Aussie term.

At any rate, a ban on nicotine-containing E-cigarettes has been upheld by The Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)
meaning that people who want to vape nicotine cannot do so legally.  While it's legal to buy any E-cigarette device in
Australia, importing nicotine pods/liquid constitutes mail fraud.  Obviously this ban is ineffective as far as overseas
on-line selling goes, particularly from the Asian market.

Our state cancer councils are also concerned about something called the "on-ramp effect", whereby young people are
not only using E-cigarettes but they're then transitioning too easily to combustible cigarettes. Currently, 13% of teenagers
aged between 12–17 in Australia have already tried E-cigarettes. Educators and health experts say big tobacco companies
are hooking a new generation of children on smoking by marketing candy-flavoured E-cigarette liquids with glamorous
social media imagery.

[Image: WE3-R7-FETZVHBZD6-G26-RBT3-TDPM-1.jpg]  [Image: maxresdefault-1.jpg]

And it's no surprise that Phillip Morris owns a 35% share of Juul, the biggest seller of these devices in the US at
72% market share.  And one Juul pod contains the same amount of nicotine as one to two packs of cigarettes.

Quote:The calls to ban these products has more to do with peoples Pavlovian response to seeing someone doing something that looks like smoking than to do with any health concerns.

I'd have to disagree on this claim. In Australia, the proposed banning has everything to do with the health concerns.

Quote:I'd be willing to bet that most people, if told the patch would randomly cause fatal heart attacks in 5-10 percent of the people who used them...

Citation please.  According to a PubMed report "Cardiovascular safety of transdermal nicotine patches in patients
with coronary artery disease who try to quit smoking" by Tzivoni D. et al:

Quote:Because high doses of nicotine may increase heart rate and potentiate cardiac arrhythmia or ischaemia, its use
in patients with coronary artery disease was investigated... The cardiovascular effects of nicotine patches were
assessed by repeated ambulatory ECG monitoring (AEM) and exercise testing... The use of nicotine patches did
not cause aggravation of myocardial ischaemia or arrouphythmia in coronary patients and therefore can be used
as a method to promote smoking cessation in this high-risk group.

Quote:...I think this is the single greatest reason tobacco bans have gone as far as they have. It's not the danger to others, but the stink that's driving smokers 25-, 50-, even 100-feet away from public buildings and in some jurisdictions, even open air public areas.

There's obviously a different train of thought about the negative health effects of (passive) mainstream and/or
sidestream smoking in the US compared with Australia.

According to the Australian government's department of health, there is no safe level of passive smoking.
Second-hand smoke is a serious health threat:  For every 8 smokers who die from a smoking-related disease,
1 non-smoker dies from second-hand smoke exposure, and non-smokers who live with a smoker have a 25%
to 30% greater risk of developing heart disease. If children live with someone who regularly smokes in their
home, they breathe in the same amount of nicotine as if they were smoking 60 to 150 cigarettes a year. This
amount is enough to be considered an occasional smoker.    Ouch!
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#85

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-10-2019, 08:44 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 07:55 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: This may seem a minor nit to pick, but I do wish the term "oil" would be dropped from use as a general term.

What would be a more appropriate definition? I can only think of "E-liquid" which is the common Aussie term.
E-liquid certainly works for me since it covers any liquid at all used for vaping, including oils.

(11-10-2019, 08:44 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 07:55 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: I'd be willing to bet that most people, if told the patch would randomly cause fatal heart attacks in 5-10 percent of the people who used them...

Citation please.  According to a PubMed report "Cardiovascular safety of transdermal nicotine patches in patients
with coronary artery disease who try to quit smoking" by Tzivoni D. et al:
Let me clarify here. I was not intending to claim any health risk involved with patches and, in point of fact, do not know of any. I was using that to point up the negative response to vaping as a nicotine replacement, at least here in the states, because it makes clouds, just like smoking, but please do continue taking comments out of context and replying to them under a false assumption instead of just asking for clarification.

Also for clarity... I do not presume to speak for Australia or Australians, but to speak to the ignorance I see around me every day here in the "good ol' U.S.A."
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#86

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 04:43 AM)grympy Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 04:03 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 02:59 AM)grympy Wrote: Don't know if I've mentioned this.

One day one of the office scamps brought along a plate of home made hash cookies. I only found out after the event because he knew I'm allergic to weed. (makes me vomit and I hallucinate) .  Anyway, the office was unusually quiet that  afternoon .  Stupid thing to do; our home baker would have  been sacked if he had been found out by some one without a sense of humour.

Here in the US, that's called poisoningDodgy


Not at all. All those who were given the cookies knew what they were given. 

 Same office. The husband of one of the women had one of the franchise "CheeseCake Shops" . Can't remember if this made it to the papers. Seems one of the bakers made a 'special cake' to take to a party.  It contained weed.  He put it aside .Somehow, it was accidently  sold, and went to a kids' birthday party. Several several kids and a grandmother ended up in hospital

As one  may imagine , the cheesecake hit the fan. Nearly  cost the bloke his franchise.THAT'S what WE call poisoning  here in Australia

Source?
I just believe in one less deity than most people.
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#87

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
Dom touched up on this earlier and I didn’t read everything here so this might have already been said, but the girl that started the End Vaping Movement or whatever (she was hospitalized for vaping with severe lung damage and she’s pretty much what blew this up and gathered attention for a couple of other people that had been hospitalized- and I’m talking like??? 5 people max??? Not really a lot of people) and come to find out the reason these people were hospitalized was not because they were vaping company manufactured store bought oils, but because they were vaping modded cartridges – basically people making their own cartridges at home and selling them to friends/online. A lot of people will empty dab cards into cartridges and sell them and that’s what the girl who happened to start the movement did– and that’s why she was hospitalized. She was using the vape in a way it technically shouldn’t be used without the knowledge of how to make a safe cartridge. She got a LOT of harassment on her social, not quite from people who thought she was lying about generally vaping, but from people realizing she started this movement by lying to the public about WHAT she was vaping and where it came from.
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#88

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-12-2019, 09:46 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 04:43 AM)grympy Wrote: Can't remember if this made it to the papers. Seems one of the bakers made a 'special cake' to take to a party...

Source?

Independent UK, News of the Weird, 30 January 1999.

     Big Grin
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#89

Vaping as Deadly as Tobacco?
(11-09-2019, 07:55 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: This may seem a minor nit to pick, but I do wish the term "oil" would be dropped from use as a general term. I vaped for over two years and never once bought or made a vaping oil. Calling all e-liquids oils is incorrect. Oils account for less than half of the vaping products. Vegetable glycerin,propylene glycol or a mixture of the two are by far the most common liquids used to carry the flavorings and nicotine. The vaping of oils is almost exclusively within the domain of people looking to get high, not those looking to get their nicotine fix.

When properly mixed, e-liquids don't need the chemicals that are causing the problems doctors are starting to see, and their recent addition to commercially available liquids is the reason we've not seen these problems for a lot longer. Vaping has been happening for well over a decade now and the tried and true e-liquid blends have never caused these problems.

You need a degree and a license to mix two chemical compounds and sell it from a pharmacy, but any asshole with a grade school chemistry set and a $1000 stake can start a business making and selling e-liquids online. Regulate the crap out of these products, shut down the back-room and kitchen mixers that are selling their crappy, badly-mixed, often toxic products on the internet and you'll have a viable tobacco replacement, and possible cessation tool, to complement the pills, patches and lozenges. No one method works for everyone trying to quit, but all methods work for someone.

The calls to ban these products has more to do with peoples Pavlovian response to seeing someone doing something that looks like smoking than to do with any health concerns. I'd be willing to bet that most people, if told the patch would randomly cause fatal heart attacks in 5-10 percent of the people who used them, there would be little to no outcry and no movement to ban them, for two reasons. One, They're marketed as a cessation tool despite having a track record similar to cold turkey. Two, they don't produce a stinky* white cloud that we've all been trained to fear far beyond the actual health hazards.

*I think this is the single greatest reason tobacco bans have gone as far as they have. It's not the danger to others, but the stink that's driving smokers 25-, 50-, even 100-feet away from public buildings and in some jurisdictions, even open air public areas.

Brilliant post Mr B. I turned from a 40 a day habit to none using both patches and an e cigarette my breathing is better and I'm saving a ton of money plus I don't smell anymore and now people want to ban my e cigarette because in the last year or two a small handful of people vaping cannabis oil died and one 16 year old in Britain with allergy issues was hospitalised, how many have died from tobacco products in that time period I wonder? Probably thousands. It's a pavlovian response as you pointed out probably started by and supported by life long non smokers who have absolutely zero idea how horrible nicotine withdrawal is and who give absolutely zero fucks either, they clearly have control issues imao. I wish they would bug out of my life and just be happy I no longer stink them out with cigarettes. Rant over.

Edit: I want to make it clear that this isn't a dig at anyone here per se, I'm simply venting frustration at law makers and pressure groups who hate smoking and want to stop it but complain and want to ban any techniques that don't fit into their narrow cookie cutter view of how to do it, I find that controlling to the extreme.
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