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The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
#26

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
P.S. Drich, most of Christianity disagrees with you.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#27

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 02:20 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(08-12-2019, 07:30 PM)Drich Wrote: Put it this way.
let say you had a fish tank, and the worst thing that could ever happen to one of your prized fish is someone mixes up the food and gives them fresh water fish food or the salt in the tank is off.. maybe they get sick. or maybe the become acustom to your specific tank and can not live anywhere else..

Now in this tank, to those fish, the wrong food.. is akin to rape and murder because they do not know the true evils of the deep blue sea.

That's the joy of being omnipotent. You can always conjure better fish food from raw firmament. You never have to settle for a lesser of evils because you don't have to accept any at all. Or are you suggesting that your deity is too stoopid to keep a goldfish alive?

again, READ the analogy. God owns the tank, everything in it belongs to satan. This means God yes owns the world, however satan owns all of the slaves/fish who can live outside of the tank. Which means Satan is the one feeding the fish. why feed the fish? to fatten them for the fry!!!
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#28

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
But God chose to make a world where he already knew beforehand that humanity and Satan would turn against him. That silly bastard. How odd that a truly all-powerful being would choose to create creatures that he knew would turn against him. Can't he do better than that? Apparently not. It turns out that 'All-Powerful' means 'a bit crap' in God's language Dunno
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#29

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 03:29 AM)epronovost Wrote: @Drich

If there is an all powerful all good gods why didn't made creation all powerful (or at least indestructibe) and all good just like him? It sounds to me you are just trying to make excuses.
Asked and answered in the op

God is not omnibenevolent. no where in the HOLY bible does it claim God is omnibenevolent.. meaning nothing in the koine greek codices ever claims God is all loving. Again God is Agape. it is the form of love that sees a loved on through the pain rather than have them avoid it.

Then you ask why are we not built like God?
You mean built like angels?

So what happened when he build the legions of angels right at or just below his own level and put them in heaven next to his side?
1/3 Rebelled..

So then why would God make this same mistake twice?

Why not put man in a fish tank of the one who is to tempt them to rebel anyway? that way only the ones who want to be with God elect to be with God and the rest who would rebell simply stay where they are at?

not making excuses. I am trying to straighten out a broken view of God. Most of you have no idea what Christianity is about especially if this video represents any part of your belief system. 

What I am doing here is explaining or fixing the explanation as to how God/Christian works.
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#30

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
He's not just not omnibenevolent, though, he also has a bizarre fetish for creating beings that he already knows beforehand will betray him, lol.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#31

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 04:50 PM)Drich Wrote: again, READ the analogy. God owns the tank, everything in it belongs to satan. This means God yes owns the world, however satan owns all of the slaves/fish who can live outside of the tank. Which means Satan is the one feeding the fish. why feed the fish? to fatten them for the fry!!!

Un-fucking-believable.
LMAO

But wait, who owns the fish food ?
Does Satan own the electric tank filter.

God can't fucking "own the world" if he doesn't own the whole world.
What childish stupidity.
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#32

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 08:47 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(08-12-2019, 07:30 PM)Drich Wrote: Yes rape and murder/war are bad because no one wants to be raped or murdered..  how ever without them the human race would be extinct.

LOL

So The Good Lord™ makes it so Rape and Murder/War ™ is required for the human race to survive. He didn't have to make it that way, since he's all-powerful, but making it that way is what a Truly Loving God™ would do!

Rofl2 Rofl2 Rofl2

why not?

what is rape and murder/war? to a spirit based being? 

Only those who worship flesh and this span of life fear and abhor these things..

Our ways are not God's ways(worship and extend our life)  our thoughts (IE preservation of the flesh over the spirit) are not his thoughts

Think about it war has produced or spawn every major era of man.. from the bronze age to this post modern computer age. why did we need those bronze swords and armor? it wasn't to form phalanx to hunt deer.

This life is only a test to prove to our selves where our heart are. So you don't get sentenced to hell for what you would have done... you get just enough life to prove your soul's inclination. Death, war the are all tools to test and expedite this process.

Remember this is not our life this is not our home. this is a matrix designed for one purpose that is to separate those who want to be with God from those who do not.
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#33

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 05:22 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 08:47 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(08-12-2019, 07:30 PM)Drich Wrote: Yes rape and murder/war are bad because no one wants to be raped or murdered..  how ever without them the human race would be extinct.

LOL

So The Good Lord™ makes it so Rape and Murder/War ™ is required for the human race to survive. He didn't have to make it that way, since he's all-powerful, but making it that way is what a Truly Loving God™ would do!

Rofl2 Rofl2 Rofl2

why not?

what is rape and murder/war? to a spirit based being? 

Only those who worship flesh and this span of life fear and abhor these things..

Our ways are not God's ways(worship and extend our life)  our thoughts (IE preservation of the flesh over the spirit) are not his thoughts

Think about it war has produced or spawn every major era of man.. from the bronze age to this post modern computer age. why did we need those bronze swords and armor? it wasn't to form phalanx to hunt deer.

This life is only a test to prove to our selves where our heart are. So you don't get sentenced to hell for what you would have done... you get just enough life to prove your soul's inclination. Death, war the are all tools to test and expedite this process.

Remember this is not our life this is not our home. this is a matrix designed for one purpose that is to separate those who want to be with God from those who do not.

Preach it sista.
Nice story, but it needs dragons, vampires and werewolves. It's just boring.

Almost time for your noon pills.
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#34

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 05:22 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 08:47 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(08-12-2019, 07:30 PM)Drich Wrote: Yes rape and murder/war are bad because no one wants to be raped or murdered..  how ever without them the human race would be extinct.

LOL

So The Good Lord™ makes it so Rape and Murder/War ™ is required for the human race to survive. He didn't have to make it that way, since he's all-powerful, but making it that way is what a Truly Loving God™ would do!

Rofl2 Rofl2 Rofl2

why not?

what is rape and murder/war? to a spirit based being? 

Only those who worship flesh and this span of life fear and abhor these things..

Our ways are not God's ways(worship and extend our life)  our thoughts (IE preservation of the flesh over the spirit) are not his thoughts

Think about it war has produced or spawn every major era of man.. from the bronze age to this post modern computer age. why did we need those bronze swords and armor? it wasn't to form phalanx to hunt deer.

This life is only a test to prove to our selves where our heart are. So you don't get sentenced to hell for what you would have done... you get just enough life to prove your soul's inclination. Death, war the are all tools to test and expedite this process.

Remember this is not our life this is not our home. this is a matrix designed for one purpose that is to separate those who want to be with God from those who do not.

My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#35

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 05:01 PM)Drich Wrote: Asked and answered in the op

God is not omnibenevolent. no where in the HOLY bible does it claim God is omnibenevolent.. meaning nothing in the koine greek codices ever claims God is all loving. Again God is Agape. it is the form of love that sees a loved on through the pain rather than have them avoid it.

Fair and well. This at least makes a little bit of sense. God is an absolute asshole who offers platitude instead of actual help and built a world for sentient creatures much like him to suffer, love, merry, frear in because he likes it like that.

Quote:Then you ask why are we not built like God?
You mean built like angels?

No, no, I mean gods just as powerful, wise and moral as him. Angels, as far as I'm aware, are basically just supernatural creature that are form the same substance then God, but not nearly (and by a longshot) as powerful and wise as he is.

Plus, the angel's rebellion is a poor excuse for not making more of them. The very first thing humans did is rebel against God's rule. He almost exterminated humanity whole once and exterminated large sections of it on a more or less regular basis because he's pissed we rebel constantly. He likes stuff to rebel I think...
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#36

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 05:01 PM)Drich Wrote: God is not omnibenevolent. no where in the HOLY bible does it claim God is omnibenevolent.. meaning nothing in the koine greek codices ever claims God is all loving. Again God is Agape. it is the form of love that sees a loved on through the pain rather than have them avoid it.


Nowhere in the HOLY Babble does it say "god is agape". Nowhere. He made that up.
It does say God is (unqualified- omni) benevolent.
Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good Jesus replied. There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments".

This is over Drippy's head, but if a god has any quality, it must be a perfect quality.
Therefore, if one ascribes benevolence, it has to be perfect benevolence.
The Greek manuscripts are copies of copies of copies. There are no original NT manuscripts.
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#37

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 11:31 AM)Dānu Wrote:
(08-12-2019, 07:30 PM)Drich Wrote: [quote="EvieTheAvocado" pid='136522' dateline='1565255828']

As the video point out you are looking for a 'good god.'

God does not claim to be good or loving. not as you understand these terms i the english anyway.

1st off you seemed to be confused in what I said (God does not conform to your definition of Good) to the word good is never use in the bible to describe God. People through out the bible describe God as good. God however does not decribe himself using this term as you would.

How would I say you use this term?

good
/ɡo͝od/
[/url]undefinedLearn to pronounce

adjective
  1. 1.
    to be desired or approved of.
    "a good quality of life"

  2. 2.
    having the qualities required for a particular role.
    "the schools here are good"
    synonyms:
    fine, of high quality, of a high standard, qualitysuperiorMore

  3.  which is morally right; righteousness.
  4. "a mysterious balance of good and evil"
    synonyms:
    virtuerighteousness, virtuousness, goodnessmorality, ethicalness, uprightness, upstandingness, integrityprincipledignityrectituderightnessMore

  5. 2.
    benefit or advantage to someone or something.
    "he convinces his father to use his genius for the good of mankind"
    synonyms:
    benefitadvantageprofitgaininterestwelfarewell-beingenjoymentsatisfactioncomforteaseconvenienceMore


  6. adverb
[size=undefined]INFORMAL
[/size]

  1. 1.
    well.
    "my mother could never cook this good"

Quote:Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48).
again is your understanding of good perfection?


Quote:As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him (Psalm 18:30).

Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way (Psalm 25:8).
Psalms are not commands nor are they official literature or wisdom.. that said the song writers ideal of good refers to God's ability to help him make war in psalm 18, and in 25. God is good for teaching sinners to walk in his ways. Ie to be able to identify and repent of sin like homosexuality.


Quote:The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth (Exodus 34:6).
Then the Lord came down in the cloud. He stood there with Moses and announced his name, the Lord. As he passed in front of Moses, he called out. He said, “I am the Lord, the Lord. I am the God who is tender and kind. I am gracious. I am slow to get angry. I am faithful and full of love. I continue to show my love to thousands of people. I forgive those who do evil. I forgive those who refuse to obey me. And I forgive those who sin. But I do not let guilty people go without punishing them. I cause the sins of the parents to affect their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.”

looking at all of these one can say God is good. however he himself does not identify this trait to be considered over others. meaning again if you see this list and consider God good it does not mean God is mandating himself to this list and can not stray from it. Here is an example of God listing his good qualities. these qualities impart define who he is. however He is not a slave to these qualities because first and foremost God is the alpha and omega. meaning he is what he wants to be when he wants to be that way. You can look at the book of Job and see God is not completely defined or locked into those attributes he uses to describe his good qualities. however, he still posses those qualities even if it does not seem they are being displayed.

Quote:Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever (1 Chronicles 16:34).
this was " Asaph's" personal prayer and pleading to God.
This is not God identifying himself as my statement says.


Quote:And they sang responsively, praising and giving thanks to the Lord: “For He is good, for His mercy endures forever toward Israel.” (Ezra 3:11)
again this is where "they" are singing to God and not God identifying himself. These are examples of religious worship. this is man reaching out to God. this is not wrong... but at the same time these are not attributes given to us by God.



[quote]Good and upright is the Lord (Psalm 25:8).
again a psalm is another example of worship/not God describing himself.

Quote:The Lord is good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works (Psalm 145:9).
see above..

Quote:No one is good but One, that is, God (Mark 10:18).

The 'good here mean morally upright and or honorable the connotation/spin Jesus puts on the word is 'perfection.' perfectly just or honorable.. the debate would be to who's standards. you 'good people' are quick to point out God's goodness when he orders a genocide or has a bear ravage children for pestering a prophet.
2. what is upright, honorable, and acceptable to God[url=https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/romans/12/2/s_1058002]Romans 12:2
ἐργάζεσθαι τό ἀγαθόν Romans 2:10Ephesians 4:28πράσσεινRomans 9:11; (2 Corinthians 5:10); διώκειν1 Thessalonians 5:15μιμεῖσθαι3 John 1:11κολλᾶσθαι τῷ ἀγαθῷ Romans 12:9τί με ἐρωτᾷς περί τοῦ ἀγαθοῦMatthew 19:17 G L T Tr WH, where the word expresses the general idea of right. Specifically, what is salutary, suited to the course of human affairs: in the phrase διάκονος εἰς τό ἀγαθόν Romans 13:4; of rendering service, Galatians 6:10Romans 12:21τό ἀγαθόν σου the favor thou conferrest, Philemon 1:14.

["It is to be regarded as a peculiarity in the usage of the Sept. that טוב good is predominantly [?] rendered by καλός.... The translator of Genesis uses ἀγαθός only in the neuter, good, goods, and this has been to a degree the model for the other translators.... In the Greek O. T., where οἱ δίκαιοι is the technical designation of the pious, οἱ ἀγαθοί or  ἀγαθός does not occur in so general a sense. The ἀνήρ ἀγαθός is peculiar only to the Proverbs (Proverbs 13:2224Proverbs 15:3); cf. besides the solitary instance in 1 Kings 2:32. Thus, even in the usage of the O. T. we are reminded of Christ's words, Mark 10:18, οὐδείς ἀγαθός εἰ μή εἷς ὁ Θεός. In the O. T. the term 'righteous' makes reference rather to a covenant and to one's relation to a positive standard; ἀγαθός would express the absolute idea of moral goodness" (Zezschwitz, Profangraec. u. Biblical Sprachgeist, Leipz. 1859, p. 60). Cf. Tittm., p. 19. On the comparison of ἀγαθός see B. 27 (24).]
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...=G18&t=KJV


Quote:Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning (James 1:17).
again a third party observation not a direct quote.

Quote:If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! (Matthew 7:11).
the 'good gift' here is explained in the latter parts of luke 11. What you are ask seek and knocking for is the Holy Spirit. While this is the best most awesome gift long term... it often starts out as a spirit of conviction. meaning if there is a sin in your life, keeping you from God. the Spirit's first job is usually put this sin on your heart in the form of guilt. Again from an eternal perspective this is a good gift, as it leads to repentance and then salvation. however from a world view that is rooted in most of us this guilt is the judgement that has most of you hate the church.

That is what I mean by God is not good or loving in the way you understand the word. to you good is tolerance and acceptance no matter what. To God and his followers Good is the opportunity for redemption from those sins 'good people' demand you tolerate. God's good is to acknowledge and repent.

Quote:I would have lost heart, unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living (Psalm 27:13).
David words not a godly perspective.

Quote:I will meditate on the glorious splendor of Your majesty, and on Your wondrous works. Men shall speak of the might of Your awesome acts, and I will declare Your greatness. They shall utter the memory of Your great goodness, and shall sing of Your righteousness (Psalm 145:5-7).
agan the psalmist's religious outreach not a directive ordirection from God.


Quote:He loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of the goodness of the Lord (Psalm 33:5).

Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the man who trusts in Him! (Psalm 34:8).

Be thankful to Him, and bless His name. For the Lord is good; His mercy is everlasting (Psalm 100:4-5).

Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness, and for His wonderful works to the children of men! For He satisfies the longing soul, and fills the hungry soul with goodness (Psalm 107:8-9).

As a father pities his children, so the Lord pities those who fear Him. For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust (Psalm 103:13-14).

Teach me to do Your will, for You are my God; Your Spirit is good. Lead me in the land of uprightness (Psalm 143:10).

The Lord is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him (Psalm 92:15).

You are good, and do good; teach me Your statutes (Psalm 119:68).
the same can be said about all psalms. again they where never meant as commands, wisdom or directives. they were the people's worship their religious songs and praises to God. Not god claiming or declaring anything.


Quote:You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, and did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, and gave them water for their thirst (Nehemiah 9:20).
this is the prophet nehemiah describing God. again a followers worship and praise.
Quote:Hear me, O Lord, for Your lovingkindness is good; turn to me according to the multitude of Your tender mercies (Psalm 69:16).

Oh, how great is Your goodness, which You have laid up for those who fear You, which You have prepared for those who trust in You in the presence of the sons of men! You shall hide them in the secret place of Your presence from the plots of man; You shall keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues (Psalm 31:19-20).
I've already pointed out what the psalms are.

Honestly did you notice how few times you quoted the NT?

If I wanted to be a stickler and point out we are new covenant Christians not OT jews I would have been right in doing so. 

Again my point is not that God was never described as good. He simply never claims himself to be good.

We have two point out side of what Christ Himself says about God where God takes the time to describe himself. and they are both in the OT which is why I answered your OT passages. as they are they only descriptions we Get. First you have the exodus passage you quoted (where God describes his good attributes) but again are not defined or held to them/meaning he can act against those attributes and yet still be God. and you have the bit where moses Goes to pharaoh and asks whom shall I say sends me? and God says he is the alpha and omega...

Next you have the 1 passage in mark 10. that God in the form of Jesus says God the Father is Good. but again not the super tolerant super loving all accepting grandfather figure that you Might define as good. But a Supremely just god. one that has sent his son to die on a cross so your sin maybe forgiven. In that statement right there should conflict with your idea of Good which means God's use of the term and your should be vastly different. After all would you have you son killed so you can forgive others?
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#38

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 07:19 PM)Drich Wrote: After all would you have you son killed so you can forgive others?

Of course not, for any lay person this would be a massive non sequitur. It only make sense to someone who understand the basic functionning of blood curses and believes in such a thing. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ only makes sense if you look at it through the lenses of people believing in ritualistic blood magic as Ancient Hebrews and many other civilisation of the time and area believed in.
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#39

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 12:53 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: P.S. Drich, most of Christianity disagrees with you.

P.S.S
I know.. because most of christian does not read or follow the bible. as most of christianity is catholic their mandate is to the church Father, tradition and then the bible. meaning because most of the world belongs to the catholic faith, most of the world will disagree because my primary source material comes from the Holy Bible (which is not the translation officially used by the church) their is based off of the LLX or Vulgate. Even so, The holy father trumps anything in the bible as he is supposed to be a living apostle of Jesus... then tradition is also considered before the bible. (meaning the pope can make a rule that contradicts the bible and the whole church will heed the word of the pope first.) Second authority goes to the traditions of the church IE if a past pope made a rule that contradicts the bible the whole church follows tradition over what the bible says...

Now, considering all denominational beliefs are at some point traced back to the original reformation, these denominations all have the same catholic foundations. meaning some traditions where axed while others where kept. Even if the sometimes cnfliced with scripture.

Not calling any one out but here are some very obvious examples where the tradition of the church conflicts with the bible.

1 the bible says no images of God.. what lines out churches but artwork depicting everything from creation to the cross? how many of you have a picture of God being a old bearded man wearing robes? why??? because of the depictions we place in our bibles and in our churches... despite what the bible says.

2do not have idols or physical representations of God angels or "saints." from crucifictions to statues of mary and the apostles all of those rules have been broken.

3 do not worship these idols.. how many candles have been burned in prayers ceremonies at the base of one of those statues? how many prayers to peter ow many prayers to everyone else but God?

4 the bible says in the last days wicked men will tell people they should not marry or be given to marriage.. yet some churches even outside catholicism mandate their priests to be unmarried.

5.Some church teach one must confess their sins to priests and the like, while the bible says only Jesus can absolve sins. and we are only to confess to each other to keep each other accountable.. meaning member to member not member to priest.

6. Jesus himself only list 2 laws for the whole of christianity to follow.. the church had over 1000.. 

7.Jesus and paul preached freedom from the law the church teaches morality based rules.

So yeah the list goes on and on.. Just because the crowd does it one way does not make the crowd right.. Vast and easy traveled is the path to hell, narrow and hard to find is the path to eternal life.

Now the question should be if I am right does that make everyone else wrong/going to hell?

nope... why would you think that?

For the same grace that saves both me and the catholic when we willfully sin... is there 10xs over when we are doing our best to love God and each other but can not get past the church's rules.

Meaning if you have Jesus at the center of your religion then the same grace that covers you when you willfully sin also forgives you when you worship the wrong way so long as you are doing your best.

That is what makes christianity different it grades on a curve.
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#40

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
So many Christians think that their particular interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. How is yours special, exactly?
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#41

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 07:43 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 12:53 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: P.S. Drich, most of Christianity disagrees with you.

P.S.S
I know.. because most of christian does not read or follow the bible.

Neither do you.

But you won't be able to understand how I know that.
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#42

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 06:30 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 05:22 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 08:47 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: LOL

So The Good Lord™ makes it so Rape and Murder/War ™ is required for the human race to survive. He didn't have to make it that way, since he's all-powerful, but making it that way is what a Truly Loving God™ would do!

Rofl2 Rofl2 Rofl2

why not?

what is rape and murder/war? to a spirit based being? 

Only those who worship flesh and this span of life fear and abhor these things..

Our ways are not God's ways(worship and extend our life)  our thoughts (IE preservation of the flesh over the spirit) are not his thoughts

Think about it war has produced or spawn every major era of man.. from the bronze age to this post modern computer age. why did we need those bronze swords and armor? it wasn't to form phalanx to hunt deer.

This life is only a test to prove to our selves where our heart are. So you don't get sentenced to hell for what you would have done... you get just enough life to prove your soul's inclination. Death, war the are all tools to test and expedite this process.

Remember this is not our life this is not our home. this is a matrix designed for one purpose that is to separate those who want to be with God from those who do not.


actually no.. I am simply reconciling human history and human nature with the parts of the bible that agree.

it seems like I am a mental gymnast because you wrongly identified my starting position. You assume I believe what you believe about the church religion and God that it is all based off of morality and a all loving God.. 

again no. look at human history, look at the bible. The bible never says God is omnibenevolent. The world never reflected this kind of God outside of the garden.. It is ONLY religion says that about God. mental gymnasts and I differ from this point: They try and make an all loving God work with the facts of human history and suffering.

what i have done is completely different. I've through the bible embraced the pain and suffering, and gave you a different perspective, in that you have nothing to compare your pain and suffering to..  In the universe your max understanding of pain and suffering as filter through God may only ever reach a 2 out of 100. but because you have no understanding of the 100 God shields you from, your 2 in your range of understanding is now 1000. even though in reality it is still just a 2.

So when you experience a 2 you whole world ends because nothing worse can happen to you, and you will never know any thing worse in this life. so you curse God for allowing to be number 2-ed on. Whistling

Meaning you idea of unjust pain and suffering is nothing compared to what God is protecting us from. yet we curse God when something like death or bodily harm happens...
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#43

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 06:35 PM)epronovost Wrote: Fair and well. This at least makes a little bit of sense. God is an absolute asshole who offers platitude instead of actual help and built a world for sentient creatures much like him to suffer, love, merry, frear in because he likes it like that.
again.. how do you know what the world suffers is not a protected "2" out of a potential 100 on the scale of suffering? What if God put the very minimum amount of suffering in this fish tan to simply show what or how ungrateful you truly are just because he has asked you to do alittle more than eat and drill one another in the can?

Maybe I am wrong and you are right maybe death and pain can get no worse no matter how long you live or what unexplored part of the universe you are in... Or maybe I am right and most of us are spoiled ass crybabies because we do not get everything we want in life so we blame god for this immeasurable suffering we endure..

Quote:Then you ask why are we not built like God?
You mean built like angels?

No, no, I mean gods just as powerful, wise and moral as him. Angels, as far as I'm aware, are basically just supernatural creature that are form the same substance then God, but not nearly (and by a longshot) as powerful and wise as he is.

Plus, the angel's rebellion is a poor excuse for not making more of them. The very first thing humans did is rebel against God's rule. He almost exterminated humanity whole once and exterminated large sections of it on a more or less regular basis because he's pissed we rebel constantly. He likes stuff to rebel I think...
[/quote]
Again why if lessor being failed and rebelled?

would you be so stunted as to build something equal than or greater than yourself? Have you never seen any of the terminator movies? have you not seen the matrix or battle star galactica? When has it ever been told that mankind/a creator makes out better than a creation greater than or equal to the himself?
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#44

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 07:56 PM)Drich Wrote: You assume I believe what you believe about the church religion and God that it is all based off of morality and a all loving God.. 

No, no I don't. This thread wasn't directed at you. I am aware that your own particular interpretation is unorthodox.

What I assume is that you will go against the standard interpretation that when the Bible says that God is good it means he's good ... because you'll literally do any sort of mental gymnastics it takes to believe in the particular version of God you believe in because you think you've got it right ... just like every other Christian does. It matters not, to me, that you're considered a loony even from the POV of most Chirstians. Because both they and you are loonies to me.

You think God isn't good God is just God. I get it. It's still a fairy tale however you interpret it.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#45

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 08:04 PM)Drich Wrote: again.. how do you know what the world suffers is not a protected "2" out of a potential 100 on the scale of suffering? What if God put the very minimum amount of suffering in this fish tank to simply show what or how ungrateful you truly are just because he has asked you to do a little more than eat and drill one another in the can?

That's not pertinent to the question either and that's a fairly stupid way to see things. Even if 2/100 seems small it doesn't mean its not unpleasant and avoidable. That's like saying you can't be angry at someone for kicking you in the testicles because he could have done that, forced you to torture and rape your own family before killing them and forcing you to eat their corpses before torturing you some more and killing you. Of course that later things is incredibly worse, but that doesn't diminish the wrongness of the first either. That's literally whataboutism. That's a very cretinous argument.

Plus, your God is also responsible for our lack of knowledge of evil, should there be one. He is responsible for our lack of foresight and wisdom and thus for our pain and suffering. He made us fish in tanks instead of man like him and he could take care of his tank a lot better anway. It's not difficult to take care of a fish tank perfectly. It's a very simple environment.


Quote:When has it ever been told that mankind/a creator makes out better than a creation greater than or equal to the himself?

I made that a couple of years back. I called it "Émilia". She is my equal if not better than me. Other people have made something similar. It's called "having children" I believe. It's a rather entertaining process. The creation process is of course the easiest and shortest, but the whole thing isn't exactly at the edge of our abilities either. It doesn't require extensive training either to produce extraordinary results. In our species it takes two of us to create one, but in many others, it takes only one. 

I suppose you are celibate and childless for this reason? (Tongue)
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#46

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 04:50 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 02:20 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(08-12-2019, 07:30 PM)Drich Wrote: Put it this way.
let say you had a fish tank, and the worst thing that could ever happen to one of your prized fish is someone mixes up the food and gives them fresh water fish food or the salt in the tank is off.. maybe they get sick. or maybe the become acustom to your specific tank and can not live anywhere else..

Now in this tank, to those fish, the wrong food.. is akin to rape and murder because they do not know the true evils of the deep blue sea.

That's the joy of being omnipotent. You can always conjure better fish food from raw firmament. You never have to settle for a lesser of evils because you don't have to accept any at all. Or are you suggesting that your deity is too stoopid to keep a goldfish alive?

again, READ the analogy. God owns the tank, everything in it belongs to satan. This means God yes owns the world, however satan owns all of the slaves/fish who can live outside of the tank. Which means Satan is the one feeding the fish. why feed the fish? to fatten them for the fry!!!

So god is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving but such a complete bumblefuck that he gets Satan to feed his goldfish? Facepalm Clearly I have misunderestimated his incompetence.
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#47

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 07:31 PM)epronovost Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 07:19 PM)Drich Wrote: After all would you have you son killed so you can forgive others?

Of course not, for any lay person this would be a massive non sequitur. It only make sense to someone who understand the basic functioning of blood curses and believes in such a thing. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ only makes sense if you look at it through the lenses of people believing in ritualistic blood magic as Ancient Hebrews and many other civilisation of the time and area believed in.

Kinda my point.. it is not how we think. in fact it is the opposite of good as we understand the term.

The blood sacrifice does make sense in a modern context when you look at what the bible describes and apply t to modern/historical examples.
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#48

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 07:45 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: So many Christians think that their particular interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. How is yours special, exactly?

As i  pointed out

1) I do not mix in tradition or religious rules. I speak where the bible speaks and endeavor to remain silent where the bible is silent. I do not fill in with religious ideas or rules where the bible is silent.

2) I do not use scrap book theology to explain doctrine.
meaning I do not take very portions compile them and use them to say something the bible does not say. everything I try and repersent is contextually found.

3) this is the most important one. because there are only two rules to biblical Christian as Christ Himself points them out, if I can follow them then my interpretation of the bible does not have to be 100% correct. This is true for all Christ centered religions. and even those who do not proclaim to be christian. 

Fore again the same grace extended when we sin is also extended when we make religious mistakes in our reading and or understanding of the bible. So long as we follow his two rules.
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#49

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 07:48 PM)Free Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 07:43 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-13-2019, 12:53 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: P.S. Drich, most of Christianity disagrees with you.

P.S.S
I know.. because most of christian does not read or follow the bible.

Neither do you.

But you won't be able to understand how I know that.

Sun
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#50

The Evil God Challenge by Stephen Law
(08-13-2019, 08:09 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: [quote="Drich" pid='138493' dateline='1565726164']
You assume I believe what you believe about the church religion and God that it is all based off of morality and a all loving God.. 

Quote:No, no I don't. This thread wasn't directed at you.
it was the thread i was speaking of it was your qute to what I specifically said.


Quote:I am aware that your own particular interpretation is unorthodox.
you do now... or are yu say you knew this when i started two weeks ago?

Quote:What I assume is that you will go against the standard interpretation that when the Bible says that God is good it means he's good ... because you'll literally do any sort of mental gymnastics it takes to believe in the particular version of God you believe in because you think you've got it right ...
again no. again I am not explaining how God is Good. I'm telling you God simply does not align himself with man's definition of Good. 

Quote:just like every other Christian does. It matters not, to me, that you're considered a loony even from the POV of most Christians. Because both they and you are loonies to me.

You think God isn't good God is just God. I get it. It's still a fairy tale however you interpret it.
No, I simply pointed out God never claims to be good in the bible ever.

Others describe God as good.

Only one time Jesus said God was good, and then the word means good in a just or justic sort of way
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