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“Jonestown in slow motion”
#51

“Jonestown in slow motion”
ruach is a force. physics deals with forces and things of kinetic energy such as air molecules being pushed out of the lungs with kinetic energy.
more on ruach: Understanding the Hebrew word ruach (and its Greek counterpart pneuma) is central to understanding why Yeshua is called "Messiah" (Mashiach, Christos).
It's also important to know what Scripture teaches about "spirit," in order to discern and avoid deceptions done in the name of and by a Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. There is a counterfeit or "different Spirit," "who is now working in the children of disobedience" (2 Cor 11:4; Eph 2:2).
In the Hebrew Bible the word ruach occurs nearly 400 times. Its base meaning is "moving air" — whether in the form of breath, a breeze, or violent storm winds.

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/spir...neuma.html

Study physics then you are studying things of the "spirit".  John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, the word was with god and was god.
Science believes that the word in the beginning was the word bang and they theorize it was a big word.  Genesis 1:3 In the beginning god said let there be light ...
God is word(bang) is kinetic energy that SAID , ket there be light.
by SAID this is saying like air molecules moving out of lungs us force. to "SAY, or SAID " is applying a force. So, god the word(orce-kinetic energy) SAID (forced wuth kinetic energy) then there was light. Also, light has different intellageable patters, colors. with the right apparatus (eye ball) one can decipher the different light patterns. speaking a word is not just pushing air out of lungs but to SAY something us to give those air molecules an intellegentable pattern. So, god SAID giving light that has an intellegentable pattern.  Would big bang theory give more indepth detail, scientific jargon and mathmatical equations that verifies biblical text?
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#52

“Jonestown in slow motion”
I think Antifred needs to get checked for rabies.
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#53

“Jonestown in slow motion”
The biblical God is ambiguous multi-meaning Word, logos, causation based on words being metaphorically kinetic energy giving off kinetic energy into light. The word is the kinetic energy is the light. Scientists believe the word in the beginning was the word BANG.



Watched all of debate and this is the most complete and longest I have watch any debate if this sort. 

First, the entire thing was only really good for entertainment value, assuming someone likes illogical entertainment.  There was peices of information here and there, thoughtful or provoking as some could be. 

Illogical Christian Craig's knowledge of Jesus style God, as it is themed and layed out in biblical text, is not much more advanced that most any current Christian understanding that I am aware of.  

Where Christian Craig has lack of understanding to properly explain Jesus style God leaves for reason why illogical atheist Hitchens cannot obtain a proper understanding of Jesus style God. 

Science explains kinetic energy and force in modern language whereas the biblical text uses old words in their ancient language that does not carry the same exact meaning that has been translated into English.

Start with Energy or force that is not ordered or organized. Science says this started with a Bang and began organizing and ordering into atoms which we now observe, 
 understand, and know laws for.  By way of kinetic energy,  force chemical reactions Atoms are organized into compounds into cells, (in short) into flesh. 

Biblically the word used was Ruach which is force. Biblical there is a personification added to this beginning story biblical that leads to what is considered Jesus. Ruach is most often tranlated into spirit having a connotation of ghost rather than kinetic energy force. 

Biblical text personified this creation story as if a person (or the organized mental cognitive capable thoughts were involved like a bodilessmind) was involved abd the causation of itself or to say from kinetic energy become more organized kinetic energy.  

Genesis 1:2 The ruach(spirit) of elohim(God) was hovering ....

I suggest, It could be viewed as a clue of a person's beginning cognitive spark when they began... perhaps to say: shortly after conception the chemical reaction spark that completed the zygote formation was hovering ... 

Then New testiment gives a different verbiage but similar understanding connections to Genesis 1. 

John 1:1 .. the word was with god and was god. 

logos - Word - thought - causation - force kinetic energy 

Think of a word and what causes it to come out of the mouth? Brain sends signala to Force of lungs pushing air with kinetic energy to be organized into a pattern of vibrating air destinguished as a word. 

John 1:14 ... the word become flesh.  

Science says, "bang of kinetic energy " ... now we are kinetic energy, organized in the flesh. 

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "... 'I have said you are "gods"'?

Simple mathematics replace god with your name. Biblical text explains 'God" beginning,  your kinetic energy cognitive awareness beginning was associated with kinetic energy. 

in the beginning, the chemical reaction force kinetic energy of (your name) was hovering over the completed atoms of the zygote that grew in energy,  mass and knowledge awareness of ut being you with a body. 

Illogical atheist be like, "I do not believe I exist".
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#54

“Jonestown in slow motion”
You say "...a diety is different. It has no mass or energy ".  

Why is biblical style God put into that category compared to some other style that is different when biblical text indicates otherwise.  

Ruach is a force. Kinetic energy of breath, wind or a storm. These have kinetic energy and mass. 
Ruach (force of kinetic energy) of Elohim (positive and negative, electron and proton charges) created.

Ruach translated into English as spirit gives a connotation of ghost which is not apparent in original language.  

From the ancient-Hebrew.org reference:

The Positive and Negative nature of Elohim
When I speak of the positive and negative nature of Elohim, I am not speaking about a "moral" positive and negative, but the "forces" of positive and negative, much like the two poles of a magnet or the forces of the protons (positive) and electrons (negative) of an atom. God is a perfect balance of positive and negative: Good and Bad, Light and Dark, Large and Small, Make and Break, Loud and Quiet, Far and Near, One and Many, Male and Female, etc.

From: [hebrew-streams.org]

It's also important to know what Scripture teaches about "spirit," in order to discern and avoid deceptions done in the name of and by a Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.
In the Hebrew Bible the word ruach occurs nearly 400 times. Its base meaning is "moving air" — whether in the form of breath, a breeze, or violent storm winds. A few times, ruach is translated "mind" in the sense of someone's thoughts, convictions, disposition, drive, even courage.

Conclusion I see based on this scripture: One English translation : Genesis 1:2 - A force hovering over the waters in order to do the will of the Elohim.

Another translation: Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The force [ruach] of Elohim [ positive and negative as in electron and proton ] was hover ...said ... let there be light.

To speak is using force from thoughts to muscles to push air out of lungs with kinetic energy that has an intellegentable pattern.

The speaking is force putting intellageable pattern in which light is intellegable pattern of colors.

Electron and proton come together and no longer formless and void but makes matter and light.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and was God.

Science believes that it was the word bang in the beginning that gave off kinetic energy into light.
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#55

“Jonestown in slow motion”
Interested in you response to this: 

How atheism is illogical.  Any true student of biblical text and one that studies and knows what is written as to what Jesus said knows this much: 

3 different references that people are Gods. With out disputing truth or fiction of Jesus character, it is written that Jesus style God argued that people are Gods. 
Isaiah 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Psalms 82:6  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Do you agree with what is written as to Jesus saying people are Gods?

Although it is impossible to obtain exact figures, there is little doubt that the Bible is the world's best-selling and most widely distributed book. A survey by the Bible Society concluded that around 2.5 billion copies were printed between 1815 and 1975, but more recent estimates put the number at more than 5 billion.  From: https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/wor...n-fiction/

The biblical text is record holding most copied book of it's kind. Biblical text has been peer reviewed for 1000s of years.  It has critics but overwhelming acceptance that supports Jesus's statement that people are Gods. 

Gods exist because people are accepted to be gods, atheism illogical.  

It is not necessary or required to prove any other style of God,  only one style of God is required to prove atheism illogical.  

Willy wanka style god, Harry Potter style God,  Zues style God,  Medusa style God: what ever, none of these are required to be proven to show and prove atheism illogical.  Atheism by basic definition is that NO God(s) exist.  Proof and acceptance of just 1 style god proves atheism wrong or illogical.
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#56

“Jonestown in slow motion”
As explained below, people are Gods. Jesus, lord of host most High lucipher the devil,  is of the Angelic host. People-Gods could decide to end Christianity. Angel worship isn't recommended.  No wonder Jesus has showed back up. 


God defined as a word of open definition and usage, in that any person could give any usage or define it in any way, whether logical, provable, real, surreal or not. 

There are some things labeled by this word that have more popularity than others. There are groups of people that give a certain definition to this word that the agree on and follow for that group. There are those that would say there is nothing in existence that this word would properly label. 

There are those that do not have evidence for a reason to label anything with this word. There are those that could never know what to label with this word. 


A very uncommon word for how it is used comes from Germanic origin of meaning to call or invoke and now in fact exist as a word in English spelt with the letters G, O, and D. 


I created Taco God. Taco God is real. Taco God is a person. Any person that has eaten a taco is a Taco God. Tacos are real, people are real and people really eat tacos.

Taco God is not evidence for ANY OTHER GOD but it is in fact A God. And it only takes one God to give evidence that atheism is illogical by defination. Because atheism by defination says: no gods exist. Taco God is proven to exist.


Taco God is backed by peer reviewed text that has been peer reviewed for 1000s of years and the text is the most copied world record holding text of its kind. Taco God is real and really exist. Atheism Illogical.


I created Taco God. Taco God is a person. That person has eaten 1 taco in their life. Have you eaten a taco in you life? You then would be a Taco God. Millions and billions of taco gods exist because a lot of people has eated a taco. Taco God is everywhere, almost omnipresent even. Taco God knows almost everything, nearly omniscient, its just a
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#57

“Jonestown in slow motion”
cog·nate
/ˈkäɡˌnāt/
adjective
1.
LINGUISTICS
(of a word) having the same linguistic derivation as another; from the same original word or root (e.g., English is, German ist, Latin est, from Indo-European esti 
2.
FORMAL
related; connected.
"cognate subjects such as physics and chemistry"

synonyms:associated, related, connected, allied, interconnected, linked, coupled, correlated; 

similar, like,alike, comparable, parallel,equivalent, corresponding,analogous, homologous

"cognate subjects such as physics and chemistry"

John 1:1 In the beginning was the word,  the word was with God and was God.  
John 1:14 ... the word become flesh.(a person) 

Word translation from logos. 

Strong’s Definitions


λόγος lógos, log'-os; from G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ):—account, cause, communication, ×concerning, doctrine, fame, × have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, × speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.


So each person is like their own "bang" singularity from the scientific myth of the big bang. 

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?

People are God-words with each a "bang" cognative awareness beginning?
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#58

“Jonestown in slow motion”
Let's look at: create
verb
bring (something) into existence.
"he created a thirty-acre lake"
synonyms:generate, produce, design, make, fabricate, fashion, manufacture, build, construct, erect, do, turn out;
bring into being, originate, invent,initiate, engender, devise, frame,develop, shape, form, mold, forge,concoct, hatch; 
informalknock together, knock up, knock off
"the sculpture has been created out of Portland stone"  When a Male and female do the reproductive activity, this causes a new being to come into existence.  People are creators when making babies. 

Often, create is used in context of bringing something from nothing like the big bang myth would speculate.  I am not discussing that version here. 

Hydrogen, they say is fused in the gravity pressure of stars to build larger elements like helium and the rest of the known periodic table of elements.  

When ever a new helium atom is made by fusion it would be a new creation.  Not that helium is new but that specific atom is new. The Sun and stars then could be looked at as Creators. 

Continue with chemical reactions that bring about compounds that support what we call life having complex cell structures.  Each one may very well be a simular copy of another yet they are each created and unique.  

Creation by combining by use of forces is all around. Almost omnipresent maybe.  

From the ancient-Hebrew.org reference: #1. 
The Positive and Negative nature of Elohim
When I speak of the positive and negative nature of Elohim, I am not speaking about a "moral" positive and negative, but the "forces" of positive and negative, much like the two poles of a magnet or the forces of the protons (positive) and electrons (negative) of an atom. God is a perfect balance of positive and negative:
#2. Ruach is force, something with kinetic energy. Its base meaning is "moving air" — whether in the form of breath, a breeze, or violent storm winds.

So, what is written about Ruach of Elohim,  or in English "spirit of God"?
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#59

“Jonestown in slow motion”
I placed Antifred on ignore for argle-bargle spamming.

Theists who want to discuss rather than lecture or spam are welcome.
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#60

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 05:25 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: I think Antifred needs to get checked for rabies.

I would substitute rabies for stupidity but even glancing look at his posts show that there is no need for further tests.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#61

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 03:03 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: "BlinkMacSystemFont"? Seriously?

Fonty Macfontface? Consider
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#62

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 06:29 AM)Antifred Wrote: Let's look at: create
verb
bring (something) into existence.
"he created a thirty-acre lake"
synonyms:generate, produce, design, make, fabricate, fashion, manufacture, build, construct, erect, do, turn out;
bring into being, originate, invent,initiate, engender, devise, frame,develop, shape, form, mold, forge,concoct, hatch; 
informalknock together, knock up, knock off
"the sculpture has been created out of Portland stone"  When a Male and female do the reproductive activity, this causes a new being to come into existence.  People are creators when making babies. 

Often, create is used in context of bringing something from nothing like the big bang myth would speculate.  I am not discussing that version here. 

Hydrogen, they say is fused in the gravity pressure of stars to build larger elements like helium and the rest of the known periodic table of elements.  

When ever a new helium atom is made by fusion it would be a new creation.  Not that helium is new but that specific atom is new. The Sun and stars then could be looked at as Creators. 

Continue with chemical reactions that bring about compounds that support what we call life having complex cell structures.  Each one may very well be a simular copy of another yet they are each created and unique.  

Creation by combining by use of forces is all around. Almost omnipresent maybe.  

From the ancient-Hebrew.org reference: #1. 
The Positive and Negative nature of Elohim
When I speak of the positive and negative nature of Elohim, I am not speaking about a "moral" positive and negative, but the "forces" of positive and negative, much like the two poles of a magnet or the forces of the protons (positive) and electrons (negative) of an atom. God is a perfect balance of positive and negative:
#2. Ruach is force, something with kinetic energy. Its base meaning is "moving air" — whether in the form of breath, a breeze, or violent storm winds.

So, what is written about Ruach of Elohim,  or in English "spirit of God"?

Are you enjoying talking to yourself? We call it spamming when you flood a thread with posts that have nothing to do with the conversation. Spamming is against the rules. Please read and abide by the rules. http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=1543
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#63

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 01:03 PM)Dom Wrote: Are you enjoying talking to yourself? We call it spamming when you flood a thread with posts that have nothing to do with the conversation. Spamming is against the rules. Please read and abide by the rules. http://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/show...p?tid=1543

[sigh] Antifred is a fixture over at agnostic.com and yes it is yargle-bargle spamming as Alan V put it.

He's kind of regarded as the harmless crazy uncle in the basement over there, but I'm blocking him here so I don't have to put up with it in both places.
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#64

“Jonestown in slow motion”
It's not spam if answering a question that is asked. Just because you do not like the answer does not mean its spam.
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#65

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 04:03 PM)Antifred Wrote: It's not spam if answering a question that is asked. Just because you do not like the answer does not mean its spam.

Posting a bunch of posts in a row without waiting for answers is considered spam here. I have not given an opinion on the contents of your posts, I have told you what the spam rules are on this forum. If you just want to post without conversations, start a blog.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#66

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 04:09 PM)Dom Wrote: Posting a bunch of posts in a row without waiting for answers is considered spam here...

This person seems to be a congenital spammer [Someone who post needless amounts of
crap on a forum with the same thing repeatedly, or something that means nothing at all
 ].
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#67

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 06:08 AM)Antifred Wrote: ... Taco God is proven to exist ...

This is obviously a misinterpretation of data.  A carbohyrate god already exists in a form consonant with string theory:  the flying spaghetti monster.  Taco god would constitute a redundancy in a universe where tomato condiments and sauces are well established in companionship with carbs.  Tacos are generally circular; and are only properly recognized as a two dimensional cross section where a 14 dimensional string intersects a plane, or where a 14 dimensional string is flattened longitudinally by the forces commonly exerted by carbohydrate energized agencies.  Some arguments focus on the corn makeup of tacos as differentiating tacos from pasta, but this is misguided.  Starch is the operative constituent.  The confusion is understandable, especially when taking into account frequent outbursts of "O my God!" when biting into a hot burrito, one of the few legitimate contenders with the flying spaghetti monster for the mantle of divinity.
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#68

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 05:01 AM)Antifred Wrote: Atheism is an -ism. It comes in many forms. ism means: a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.

Atheism is a practice of a life that no gods exist. Atheism is a system of debate against anything god. Atheism is a philosophy that no gods exist. Atheism is illogical. People have eaten tacos.



Atheism is not an homogeneous  position. 

I call myself an agnostic atheist. 

Please show me the  logical fallacy in  the following statements; 

"I do not believe in god due to the lack of evidence" ( I make no claims)

 
Theist; "There is a god " Or"I believe there is a god" . (both positive claims, attracting the burden of proof) 

My response "please show me your proof" 

My position is that the existence of god  is unfalsifiable. Consequently, no basis for a debate. I will not bother debating a theist apologist.  Trying to switch the burden of proof doesn't work on me.

Nor do I allow others to define what  I believe.
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#69

“Jonestown in slow motion”
You said you are creationist acceptance of biblical text that Jesus is man made?  

John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

It is written Jesus style God referred to himself as son of man meaning,  man made
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#70

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 04:28 AM)Antifred Wrote: It show contradictory statements on his part. He states or has an ordination. A lying atheist can obtain a church certificate saying they are a minister. On the other hand, Jim Jones proclaims verbally he is agnostic and atheist. obvious contrast of statement points to dishonesty.

Congratulations on demonstrating that he's contradictory. I'm sure that Christians never do that.
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#71

“Jonestown in slow motion”
FSM is a man made God almost like Jesus style God, but FSM was created to be non-existent and is true to its creation.  It is non-existent.  None the less,  still a God thingie.
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#72

“Jonestown in slow motion”
Most christianity does not know Jesus is Lucifer the devil,  so yes there is a lot of contradictions understanding in modern christianity
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#73

“Jonestown in slow motion”
You are a God, it would be rather illogical to not believe in yourself.
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#74

“Jonestown in slow motion”
Wow. I haven't seen this much drivel since that guy who tried to conjure heaven through the wavelength frequency of the soul using massless singularities to generate gravity waves.

AntiFred: Quoting scripture at atheists is slightly less effective than walking into a church with the Vedas and explaining to everybody why they should be Hindus. We put more stock in Tolkien around these parts. Your taco god is vaguely amusing but needs work. Personally I have a pancake god. "I hop that IHOP!" Thou shall partake of the sacrament of The One True Pancake only with the blood of The Tree. Thou shalt not partake of the Anti Jemimah.

And now I want to introduce you to Fred just to see what is produced during your mutual annihilation.
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#75

“Jonestown in slow motion”
(08-25-2019, 11:47 PM)Antifred Wrote: Most christianity does not know Jesus is Lucifer the devil,  so yes there is a lot of contradictions understanding in modern christianity

I know I shouldn't do this but now I need to know how deep this particular rabbit hole goes. And what sort of shrooms are growing at the bottom.

Please Antifred, tell me more about Jesus the Devil. Are all Christians actually Satanists? Crowley is going to be pissed!
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