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The "myth" of the dying church
#76

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 04:58 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Over the last 20 years or so, Christianity in the US has been sagging.  Gallup polls demonstrate the rise in people who no longer believe in God.  10% no longer believe in God or a Universal spirit.
So you are using the same rigged polling system that said clinton would win in a land slide? didn't they destroy their crediblity with everyone except the far left wing nutters? because again who did they poll? students at major universities class coming out of the science departments? I'm not using a cross section poll here my good man. these are offical US numbers. this is where they literally ask every single house hold (among other things) what they believe about God!

Quote:However, the existence of God is a proposition that does not rely on how many people believe in God.
So?

Quote: What Drich is doing here is using the "bandwagon" argument.  Which is no argument.
Sorry no.. You do not understand the fundamentals of the argument if this is your conclusion. This is not about whether God exists or not. no read the op. it is about the church failing in the united states! it is about whether people believe or not. and again the us census literally goes around door to door every 10 years and asks questions like this along with how much you make race religion education kids ect...

So again they literally ask who goes to church and who does not. from 2001 to 2008 there has not been a recordable change outside the margin of error. now from 2001 to 90 we lost almost 10% of our membership. My argument is not only sound and disproves the articles and the general consensus of this thread. it does so with empirical data taken by the us government and is considered the first and final word on the matter. this is not some rigged poll, this is the sum total of every registered us citizen down to a2% margin of error


Quote: That the overwhelming majority of people in the Middle East are Moslems does not demonsrate God exists, the Quran is true or Mohammad was really a prophet.  The fact that 70% of Americans remain theists and Christians likewise demonstrates nothing.
slow down hot rod, we are not discussing whether or not god exists. this is about church attendance only. read the OP.. and muslim..


Quote:We just went through all of this with Imabeliever.  What evidence, hard, good, obvious evidence is there for God.  That is all that matters.  Imabeliever for all his bluster had nothing for us.
actually you didn't because I am not making that argument.

Quote:Then we have the opposite problem, the claims made about God create so many problems, free will vs omniscience, the problem of evil and more, that seem to demonstrate God as defined by Christians cannot exist.  If Drich is here to demonstrate God is a proposition worth taking seriously, Drich has to be prepared to deal with the problems that atheists use to demonstrate God is a failed concept.

Over to you, Drich.
if you got a question about how to resolve those things I have answers. I can't share lest you ask lest i be preach'n. So start another thread with your best and toughest questions then hold on to something. Sun
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#77

The "myth" of the dying church
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

As of May 3 - 7, 2017, 12% of Americans do not believe in God.
Up from 1% in 1944.

50% of Americans do not belong to a church of synagogue.
50% of Americans do not believe Religion is important in their life.

We are running behind places like Scandinavia, UK, France et al where Christianity is all but dead, but we are slowly heading in that direction. Each and every new generation in America gets less and less religious, less and less Christian. This is sort of like the Roman empire in 1st century CE when the old pagan religions started to fade away.
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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#78

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 05:11 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 04:43 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I wasn't warning you.


Drippy thinks everyone is out to get him and his stupid fucking god.  A real persecution complex.

In my case he is right but that does not apply to everyone.

nice to see you sticking with the 40s era zingers and one liners..
hold on a sec phone ringing.. 


Oliver Hardy telephoned.. he would like me to convey to you, that he wants his lampoons back..

I guess that does not leave you with much besides the cussing and moon landing conspiracies.



Drippy, its been years of you riding the same one-trick pony.  Do you seriously think that any of the same-old-shit arguments that you trot out to support your phony god merit more than a one-liner?  If you do, you are delusional....which is obvious from your sad attachment to primitive religion.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#79

The "myth" of the dying church
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-...dance.aspx

Church attendance has edged down in recent years. Gallup's latest yearly update from its daily tracking survey shows that in 2017, 38% of adults said they attended religious services weekly or almost every week. When Gallup began asking this question in 2008, that figure was 42%.

----

https://psmag.com/ideas/gen-z-is-the-lea...good-thing
...
Generation Z is the least religious generation. About one third have no religion—about the same proportion as among Millennials—compared with 23 percent, 17 percent, and 11 percent among, respectively, Generation X, Baby Boomers, and the Silent Generation, according to Pew research. But Gen Z's ties to religion seem even weaker than Millennials': They are more likely to identify as atheist or agnostic (21 percent vs. 15 percent), and most think church attendance is unimportant, according to research by the Barna Group. (Barna is a firm that provides data to Christian organizations who are evidently concerned about these trends.)
...

---

As older demographic cohorts die off and the new demographic cohorts grow up, religion in America, and its churches are going to take a big hit. Generation Z, 21% Atheist? Hmmmmmm.
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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#80

The "myth" of the dying church
The light at the end of the tunnel, Charlie.

But long before the last church closes for good they will become a political irrelevancy which will merely accelerate their decline into oblivion.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#81

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 05:24 PM)Drich Wrote: ....

if you got a question about how to resolve those things I have answers. I can't share lest you ask lest i be preach'n. So start another thread with your best and toughest questions then hold on to something. Sun

The fact is, despite your claims, religion and the churches are taking a big hit.  It will be getting worse as time goes on as younger demographic cohorts who are far less religious replace the old population cohorts who are much more religious die off.

So nobody much here thinks the churches are not in fact slowly fading and that this won't get worse in the future.

The only way for Christianity to stop this is to answer the questions about theology's claims that create a lot of problems that seem to indicate God does not exist.  You do not have to preach to demonstrate the problems of God can be dealt with and that there is good hard evidence God does in fact exist.

I myself am satisfied that the evidence that each new generation is far more non-religious and skeptical than the preceding generation and that this is going to become a massive problem for religion in the future.

https://www.barna.com/research/atheism-d...eration-z/

More than any other generation before them, Gen Z does not assert a religious identity. They might be drawn to things spiritual, but with a vastly different starting point from previous generations, many of whom received a basic education on the Bible and Christianity. And it shows: The percentage of Gen Z that identifies as atheist is double that of the U.S. adult population. To examine the culture, beliefs and motivations shaping this next generation, Barna conducted a major study in partnership with Impact 360 Institute, now available in the brand new Gen Z report. In this release, we take a look at their views on faith, truth and the church in a time of growing religious apathy.

...
So what has led to this precipitous falling off? Barna asked non-Christians of all ages about their biggest barriers to faith. Gen Z nonbelievers have much in common with their older counterparts in this regard, but a few differences stand out. Teens, along with young adults, are more likely than older Americans to say the problem of evil and suffering is a deal breaker for them. It appears that today’s youth, like so many throughout history, struggle to find a compelling argument for the existence of both evil and a good and loving God.
...

The problem of evil is becoming a big deal breaker for many and this will only get worse as time goes on.
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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#82

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 05:04 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 02:44 PM)Free Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 02:22 PM)Drich Wrote: to be intellectually honest and accurate we AGAIN turn to the US census which AGAIN is a primary source and trump secondary sources if and when they conflict.. Secondary sources like IDK a news report a mag article or a tetery source like a wiki page..

IE when the census says the number are not declining then the other sources are simply wrong hence intellectually honest AND accurate. from the US census report:

 Table 75. Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population: 1990, 2001 and 2008
[In thousands (175,440 represents 175,440,000). The methodology of the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2008 replicated that used in previous surveys. The three surveys are based on random-digit-dialing telephone surveys of residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states): 54,461 interviews in 2008, 50,281 in 2001, and 113,723 in 1990. Respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self-description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Instead, the surveys sought to determine whether the respondents regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the surveys]
Religious Group
1990
2001
2008
    Adult population, total \1
175,440,000 in 1990
207,983,000 in 2001
228,182,000 in 2008

https://www.census.gov/library/publicati...ation.html

click on line item 75

Can you see the INCREASE and not DECREASE? Despite how your sources manipulated the numbers the official hard count tells a completely different story..

This is why you peers have moved on to speaking about how christianity is decreasing world wide in an attempt to move the goal posts and save face.

I do see the increase in population, and of course along with it there will be an increase in religious affiliation. However, my point was about percentages, not about how the Christian population increases with the general population.

Here are the stats according to your own link:

In 1990 the adult population was 175,440,000
In 1990 the Christian population was  151,325,000

Which is 86.9 %

In 2008 the adult population was 228,182,000
In 2008 the Christian population was 173,402,000

Which is 75.8 %

A decrease of a full 11%

These statistics are wholly in agreement with my previous post.

Therefore yes, with all statistics considered, it indicates that Christian affiliation is on the decline. It by no means whatsoever indicates an increase. Just because the Christian population increases with the general population does not mean that Christian affiliation is increasing. It's actually decreasing. 

Between 1990 and 2008, a full 11% of the general population no longer identified as Christian.

Also, according to the well respected research organization called PEW Research the percentage today is now at only 70.6%, indicating a continuing trend of decline.

It's all about the percentages, and not the population.

The truth is that people are getting more educated as education conditions the mind to better rationalize and reason more effectively. Now, people are emerging from a time where 'belief' was acceptable, and moving towards a state of confirmation of fact. And they simply don't want to believe in talking snakes any more because they see it for what it is; a ridiculous tall-tale.

In the next 20 years, the older generation born between 1940 and 1960 will have mostly died off. That's when the 70.6% will drop well below 50% by 2040. The older folks were born during a time when religion was the rule of the day, but as soon as you get into the mid 1960s is when the declination of religious beliefs kicks into high gear. Even the young people of today look at religious people with a blank stare because they think they are out of their minds.

Comments?

wow... how dishonest are you???

Yes from 1990 your number are correct, but those number do not explain the total delt given.

WE HAD 3 Data points! not two.


    1990               2001            2008

 
Adult population, total 
 175,440,000  207,983,000  228,182,000
 
Christian, total
 151,225,000   159,514,000  173,402,000
      86.19%           76.69%         75.99%
So again between 90 and 01 was the major drop there has been very little to no (if you take in the margin of error) since 2001 to 2008 that is why there are three points of data here and not two. so as to give an accurate time frame as to when the decline in the church happened!

But you know that and decided to run with your BS numbers anyway just to try and fool lazy people into a false narrative about the church. This is disgusting behavior especially when you proclaim the use of intellectual honesty.
Thumbsdown

You are acting as if those points in any way change the % number or that they somehow change the fact that there are more and more people not affiliating with the Christian religion. They do not.

Whether you include 2001 or not, it does not change the fact that between 1990 and 2008, we have an 11% drop. Also, new data shows further decreases to nearly a 17% drop since 1990.

We can even include 2001 and the trend will still be the same. Your attempt to obfuscate this point is duly noted, and considering you call yourself a Christian I would expect a higher degree of honesty than I would get from an atheist, wouldn't you agree?  Whistling

So why is your dishonesty about this point so important to you? What do you hope to gain by contesting the data, which is quite clear?

Between 1990 and 2008 we have an 11% drop. Since then, we have dropped further to just over 70%.

Those are the facts.
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#83

The "myth" of the dying church
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Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#84

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 05:24 PM)Drich Wrote: I'm not using a cross section poll here my good man. these are offical US numbers. this is where they literally ask every single house hold (among other things) what they believe about God!

I think you're rather overly enamored of the census. All the census does is ask what label people apply to themselves -- not what they believe, or how often they go to a house of worship in response to it, or how ardent they are about it -- and certainly not how consistent and non-hypocritical they are about it. In some cases they will just be stating a cultural association. Despite being an atheist, for instance, I grew up in the fundagelical world, and so in some sense could label myself Christian (as opposed to Muslim or whatever).

Indeed, there are reasons why people might even give untruthful answers there. The thought has crossed my mind that maybe it's better if the census records me as a Christian. In another ten years the Thought Police might come knocking on the doors of all religiously unaffiliated for all I know, taking us off to re-education camps. Is it really the government's business what my personal beliefs are? In some ways I feel like misdirecting them for their impertinence.
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#85

The "myth" of the dying church
I have always answered that I am catholic. It shuts everyone up.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#86

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 06:16 PM)Free Wrote: So why is your dishonesty about this point so important to you?

Lying for jeebus is a time honored tradition with these assholes.


(08-08-2019, 09:04 PM)mordant Wrote: I think you're rather overly enamored of the census. All the census does is ask what label people apply to themselves -- not what they believe, or how often they go to a house of worship in response to it, or how ardent they are about it -- and certainly not how consistent and non-hypocritical they are about it.

Drippy will use whatever numbers he thinks shows his barbaric beliefs in the best light. If other sources made his shit stink less beliefs look better, he'd be using those. He's a cherry picker of the first order.
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#87

The "myth" of the dying church
[quote="Drich" pid='136649' dateline='1565285075']

 So you are using the same rigged polling system that said clinton would win in a land slide? didn't they destroy their crediblity with everyone except the far left wing nutters? because again who did they poll? students at major universities class coming out of the science departments? I'm not using a cross section poll here my good man. these are offical US numbers. this is where they literally ask every single house hold (among other things) what they believe about God!

[quote]

Oh dear!  We have lots of surveys. Gallup.  Pew.  Barna. Harris. Sorry, but the many surveys not a steep rise in Nones, atheists and agnostics.  A drop in church attendance, and trust in organized religion.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/248837/chur...cades.aspx

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As Christian and Jewish Americans prepare to celebrate Easter and Passover, respectively, Gallup finds the percentage of Americans who report belonging to a church, synagogue or mosque at an all-time low, averaging 50% in 2018.

U.S. church membership was 70% or higher from 1937 through 1976, falling modestly to an average of 68% in the 1970s through the 1990s. The past 20 years have seen an acceleration in the drop-off, with a 20-percentage-point decline since 1999 and more than half of that change occurring since the start of the current decade.
...
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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#88

The "myth" of the dying church
I take it this Drich individual has some sort of history on atheist forums?  He/she sounds like
and posts like a true theist arsehole, ignoring all the facts and logic that define a well-presented
argument.  Made up statistics, blatant lies, an intellectual deficit, denial of responsibility, a lack
of netiquette, arrogance, insults thrown at any opposition... the whole fucking shebang.

I presume the "D" stands for dickhead?
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#89

The "myth" of the dying church
Quote: He/she sounds like and posts like a true theist arsehole,

Congrats.  You figured him out in record time.

Hint:  The dope thinks "Adam and Eve" were real.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#90

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-09-2019, 02:59 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: Drippy will use whatever numbers he thinks shows his barbaric beliefs in the best light. If other sources made his shit stink less beliefs look better, he'd be using those. He's a cherry picker of the first order.

Yes, although to be fair (and dog knows why I even try to be fair, given the level of intellectual dishonesty generally on display by theists in such discussions) sometimes I've seen similar cherry picking from unbelievers. For example, the conflation of the Nones as a group, being the same as atheists and agnostics, which is way overstating the case really.

Of course, making bad-faith arguments doesn't become right just because someone else does.
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#91

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 05:31 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

As of May 3 - 7, 2017, 12% of Americans do not believe in God.
Up from 1% in 1944.

50% of Americans do not belong to a church of synagogue.
50% of Americans do not believe Religion is important in their life.

We are running behind places like Scandinavia, UK, France et al where Christianity is all but dead, but we are slowly heading in that direction. Each and every new generation in America gets less and less religious, less and less Christian. This is sort of like the Roman empire in 1st century CE when the old pagan religions started to fade away.

here are some other fake news polls I mean gallop polls:
Weeks from the election Clinton 51% of the vote trump 37%
https://news.gallup.com/poll/196952/clin...ities.aspx

this one weeks from the election trump 36% favored by voting americans and 63% unfavored by americans.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/189299/pres...ators.aspx

here is clinton 52% to trump 31% gallop on nov 1 2016
https://www.newsweek.com/presidential-el...ump-515705

Gallop polls proven themselves to be crap.. but only if we had some proof that they were bias crap... oh that's right clinton lost the eletion and did not win by the projected landslide gallop claimed...

maybe they asked the same sample of people who hated trump if they went to church..

Again my numbers are from the US census and "trump" and stupid gallop or any other poll.

Why because every american is asked not a sampling.. do you understand? EVERY SINGLE AMERICANS votes or tells their own story in the census, while gallop poll people hand selects a few hundred if not thousand people to ask..

One the whole country flat out tells you, the other is a loose guesstimation.

So again for the 10th time census numbers beat any polling. my numbers are census numbers... get it?
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#92

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-08-2019, 05:24 PM)Drich Wrote: So you are using the same rigged polling system that said clinton would win in a land slide? didn't they destroy their crediblity with everyone except the far left wing nutters? because again who did they poll? students at major universities class coming out of the science departments? I'm not using a cross section poll here my good man. these are offical US numbers. this is where they literally ask every single house hold (among other things) what they believe about God!

Nope. Totally wrong.
The polls were largely correct.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/c...-lot-right
The "landslide" comment is a total LIE. Clinton did win the popular vote.

https://www.pewforum.org/2015/11/03/u-s-...religious/
They are a very well respected research organization.
They ask about GOD.


Quote:However, the existence of God is a proposition that does not rely on how many people believe in God.

Oh ... and of course it just happens to be YOUR god that exists.
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#93

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-09-2019, 03:59 PM)SYZ Wrote: I take it this Drich individual has some sort of history on atheist forums?  He/she sounds like
and posts like a true theist arsehole, ignoring all the facts and logic that define a well-presented
argument.  Made up statistics, blatant lies, an intellectual deficit, denial of responsibility, a lack
of netiquette, arrogance, insults thrown at any opposition... the whole fucking shebang.

I presume the "D" stands for dickhead?

Spot on!

I'm hoping his stay here will be brief. I really don't want to start a new ignore list. One of the (lesser) reasons I left AF is that I wound up with so many ass-holes, dickheads and stupid mother-fuckers, not all of them theists, on my ignore list that reading threads was akin to reading a newspaper that had been hit with a shotgun blast. What I could read made no sense due to lack of context.
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#94

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-09-2019, 07:10 PM)Drich Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 05:31 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

As of May 3 - 7, 2017, 12% of Americans do not believe in God.
Up from 1% in 1944.

50% of Americans do not belong to a church of synagogue.
50% of Americans do not believe Religion is important in their life.

We are running behind places like Scandinavia, UK, France et al where Christianity is all but dead, but we are slowly heading in that direction. Each and every new generation in America gets less and less religious, less and less Christian. This is sort of like the Roman empire in 1st century CE when the old pagan religions started to fade away.

here are some other fake news polls I mean gallop polls:
Weeks from the election Clinton 51% of the vote trump 37%
https://news.gallup.com/poll/196952/clin...ities.aspx

this one weeks from the election trump 36% favored by voting americans and 63% unfavored by americans.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/189299/pres...ators.aspx

here is clinton 52% to trump 31% gallop on nov 1 2016
https://www.newsweek.com/presidential-el...ump-515705

Gallop polls proven themselves to be crap.. but only if we had some proof that they were bias crap... oh that's right clinton lost the eletion and did not win by the projected landslide gallop claimed...

maybe they asked the same sample of people who hated trump if they went to church..

Again my numbers are from the US census and "trump" and stupid gallop or any other poll.

Why because every american is asked not a sampling.. do you understand? EVERY SINGLE AMERICANS votes or tells their own story in the census, while gallop poll people hand selects a few hundred if not thousand people to ask..

One the whole country flat out tells you, the other is a loose guesstimation.

So again for the 10th time census numbers beat any polling. my numbers are census numbers... get it?

What you fail to understand is those polls were not for "Who would win the electoral college."

All the polls were asking individuals specific questions, not who they would vote for. 

Most of the polls were accurate and within their range of error.

Obviously you don't understand that.
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#95

The "myth" of the dying church
Drippy does not understand much.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#96

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-09-2019, 07:10 PM)Drich Wrote: Gallop polls proven themselves to be crap.. but only if we had some proof that they were bias crap... oh that's right clinton lost the eletion and did not win by the projected landslide gallop claimed...

...

So again for the 10th time census numbers beat any polling. my numbers are census numbers... get it?

As I said ... the census trumps nothing in particular. It's just another data point, and it is not an indicator of church attendance or piety or involvement or even belief, but rather, of self-applied labels that people prefer (or more exactly, prefer to admit on the census, which as I've already pointed out, people may well have motivation to conceal or lie about something as personal as their religious beliefs. In fact in Trump's America, lots more people have motivation to be wary of how what they say might be used against them).

Polls are sometimes wrong, and rarely very wrong. That doesn't invalidate all polling. Here's an article that discusses it:

https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2019...n-and-now/

As the article points out, you have to consider what the alternatives to polling are -- basically, they are reading tea leaves.

Key takeaways:

Despite doubts, studies have shown that well designed polls are accurate.

Unreliable sources are all that America had for years. Before George Gallup began gathering opinion data in the 1930s, politicians relied on such things as newspaper editorials, letters to the editor, and the frequency of labor strikes to read the mood of the people.

...the facts are that public opinion polls have only become more accurate over the years.

Even though polls aren’t perfect, they are currently the best way to measure public opinion.  “If the public decides polls are bad and stops answering them, it will be hurting itself in the long run,” says Saad. The alternative is to rely on commentators or online information. “And there’s no way to gauge the accuracy.”
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#97

The "myth" of the dying church
Quote:Despite doubts, studies have shown that well designed polls are accurate.

You're talking to a moron who believes that the world was covered by a flood because his asswipe of a god got pissed.  Reasoning goes nowhere with Drippy.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#98

The "myth" of the dying church
(08-09-2019, 07:10 PM)Drich Wrote: Gallup polls proven themselves to be crap...

Nope.  They haven't.  It's your faulty interpretation of the questions and the responses that're crap.
You're obviously not a statistician (LOL), and you seem to have a major issue with even simple maths.

Quote:...oh that's right Clinton lost the election and did not win by the projected landslide gallop claimed.

Wrong again.  Well done!  Once again you've not understood the mechanics of that particular poll. Clinton
actually won the popular vote by nearly 3 million—as predicted by the polls.  She "lost" only because of the
archaic College system, 232 to 306 for Trump.  In some counties, Clinton scored more than a 91% vote, a
figure not achieved anywhere in the US by Trump, whose best was 68% in West Virginia.  It was the system,
not Trump, which defeated Clinton... unfortunately.

Quote:Why because every American is asked not a sampling.. do you understand? EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN votes or tells their own story in the census, while Gallup poll people hand selects a few hundred if not thousand people to ask.

Oh fucking dear!  This again indicates just how little you know about polls and respondents and numbers.
Consider this:  If only 1 out of every 100 voters opted for Clinton instead of Trump—especially in a few swing
states—the resulting 2% change in the popular vote would've completely swung the election the opposite way.

Quote:So again for the 10th time census numbers beat any polling. My numbers are census numbers... get it?

I actually think we "get it" a lot better than you do mate.  I'm not exactly certain as to why you hang your hat
on national census figures so adamantly, when they actually support the claim that globally, religion is on the
rapid decline in developed Western countries.  Here in Australia, that decline has been from a 98% Christian
population in 1901, to a 52.2% in 2016.  Strangely, Sikhism is the fastest growing religion in Australia with an
increase of 74%, while irreligion increased by 48%, both from the 2011 to 2016 census periods.

BTW, the size of the entire population is immaterial when you're measuring the accuracy of polls. You could have
a country of 25,000,000 people like Australia, or 250 million like the US, and it wouldn't affect how big your
sample needs to be to come within your desired margin of error.  The margin of error (confidence level) in a
sample is equal to the reciprocal of the square root of the number of people in the sample.  I think Gallup uses
a confidence level of 95% with a margin of error of +/- 2 for its political polls, but you'd have to check that out.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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The "myth" of the dying church
Free, in post #70, examining the Census numbers pretty much busted Drich. Argument over. Other surveys demonstrate that church membership is sagging.

I declare this thread over. It is no use for Drich to beat this dead horse any more.
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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The "myth" of the dying church
Never stopped him before.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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