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Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
#26

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
I think one hurdle for westerners who are trying to understand Judaism is that they view it in the same light they view Christianity.

Christianity is about the things you believe. If you believe the book, then you have the prerequisites to believe the Jesus story. And of course, if you have the right-thinks, then you can have salvation. Nothing is tangible or verifiable by humans, so the religion is based entirely on faith and your “word” that you believe the things.

Judaism is not about belief. It’s about how you live your life within a Jewish community. Things that cannot be verified are excused from required belief. Judaism may teach that the book is literal, but unless it can be verified, no one is going to vilify anyone else for saying, “Hey, I get that being dickhead is bad, and having courts with a merciful but fair justice system is good, but I can’t get behind this literal interpretation that wind blew all night and by morning, a swamp drained enough to reveal a convenient land bridge which allowed the Jews to cross out of Egypt.”

Religious study isn’t for everyone and it seems like lots of different viewpoints make up a well balanced society. Each person’s skepticism radar is tuned a little differently; we’ve got people who can’t buy into the whole story, but they conduct themselves properly, and we’ve got people who study this stuff all day long and believe it to their core of their being. We share ideas back and forth and we're richer for it.

Until belief turns into fundamentalism, who gives a shit if the book is literal, partially true, allegorical, or fabricated outright?
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#27

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 12:41 PM)Aliza Wrote: I think one hurdle for westerners who are trying to understand Judaism is that they view it in the same light they view Christianity.

Christianity is about the things you believe. If you believe the book, then you have the prerequisites to believe the Jesus story. And of course, if you have the right-thinks, then you can have salvation. Nothing is tangible or verifiable by humans, so the religion is based entirely on faith and your “word” that you believe the things.

Judaism is not about belief. It’s about how you live your life within a Jewish community. Things that cannot be verified are excused from required belief. Judaism may teach that the book is literal, but unless it can be verified, no one is going to vilify anyone else for saying, “Hey, I get that being dickhead is bad, and having courts with a merciful but fair justice system is good, but I can’t get behind this literal interpretation that wind blew all night and by morning, a swamp drained enough to reveal a convenient land bridge which allowed the Jews to cross out of Egypt.”

Religious study isn’t for everyone and it seems like lots of different viewpoints make up a well balanced society. Each person’s skepticism radar is tuned a little differently; we’ve got people who can’t buy into the whole story, but they conduct themselves properly, and we’ve got people who study this stuff all day long and believe it to their core of their being. We share ideas back and forth and we're richer for it.

Until belief turns into fundamentalism, who gives a shit if the book is literal, partially true, allegorical, or fabricated outright?

I can see what you’re saying and I can see this viewpoint, but to me, I think it does matter if it’s taken literally or figuratively. In the stories, the writers are writing like “hey, these things happened.”  These happenings are wrapped in with a belief in a god. The belief and the stories go hand in hand. If someone believes in a god that people are saying is literally real, then why not also view the stories in the same light? It’s just something that interests me about religion in general not just Judaism. I just happened to be reading a book on Judaism so thought I’d do a post about it Smile

I was also curious of the ancient beliefs, when things first started out.  Someone who was telling the stories knew they were made up and figurative—but at what point did the stories become literal as well? Why did some people start to believe them as things that really happened? I’m wondering if things started to become embellished over time like legends sometimes do and eventually are taken as real events. Or if the stories were written as they were and years later, generations later, after retelling of the stories over and over, people came to think of them as true because they had no one to fact check them with as those generations would have all been long gone. Maybe the idea became if God’s real, the stories must be real too.
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#28

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 01:01 PM)Jenny Wrote: I was also curious of the ancient beliefs, when things first started out.  Someone who was telling the stories knew they were made up and figurative—but at what point did the stories become literal as well? Why did some people start to believe them as things that really happened? I’m wondering if things started to become embellished over time like legends sometimes do and eventually are taken as real events. Or if the stories were written as they were and years later, generations later, after retelling of the stories over and over, people came to think of them as true because they had no one to fact check them with as those generations would have all been long gone. Maybe the idea became if God’s real, the stories must be real too.

I often wonder what the original intention of the author was too, given that most bible stories have counterparts that can be tracked to other religions and cultures of the time I suspect they were adapted for each culture to suit their god.

It's possible that many of them simply started as fables or tale and early writers understood that to be the case, and would perhaps be horrified when they see what has been made of their stories.
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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#29

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
The one positive thing I can state for the Jews is that I have no knowledge of them being prone to proselytizing.
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#30

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 01:01 PM)Jenny Wrote:
(07-23-2019, 12:41 PM)Aliza Wrote: I think one hurdle for westerners who are trying to understand Judaism is that they view it in the same light they view Christianity.

Christianity is about the things you believe. If you believe the book, then you have the prerequisites to believe the Jesus story. And of course, if you have the right-thinks, then you can have salvation. Nothing is tangible or verifiable by humans, so the religion is based entirely on faith and your “word” that you believe the things.

Judaism is not about belief. It’s about how you live your life within a Jewish community. Things that cannot be verified are excused from required belief. Judaism may teach that the book is literal, but unless it can be verified, no one is going to vilify anyone else for saying, “Hey, I get that being dickhead is bad, and having courts with a merciful but fair justice system is good, but I can’t get behind this literal interpretation that wind blew all night and by morning, a swamp drained enough to reveal a convenient land bridge which allowed the Jews to cross out of Egypt.”

Religious study isn’t for everyone and it seems like lots of different viewpoints make up a well balanced society. Each person’s skepticism radar is tuned a little differently; we’ve got people who can’t buy into the whole story, but they conduct themselves properly, and we’ve got people who study this stuff all day long and believe it to their core of their being. We share ideas back and forth and we're richer for it.

Until belief turns into fundamentalism, who gives a shit if the book is literal, partially true, allegorical, or fabricated outright?

I can see what you’re saying and I can see this viewpoint, but to me, I think it does matter if it’s taken literally or figuratively. In the stories, the writers are writing like “hey, these things happened.”  These happenings are wrapped in with a belief in a god. The belief and the stories go hand in hand. If someone believes in a god that people are saying is literally real, then why not also view the stories in the same light? It’s just something that interests me about religion in general not just Judaism. I just happened to be reading a book on Judaism so thought I’d do a post about it Smile

I was also curious of the ancient beliefs, when things first started out.  Someone who was telling the stories knew they were made up and figurative—but at what point did the stories become literal as well? Why did some people start to believe them as things that really happened? I’m wondering if things started to become embellished over time like legends sometimes do and eventually are taken as real events. Or if the stories were written as they were and years later, generations later, after retelling of the stories over and over, people came to think of them as true because they had no one to fact check them with as those generations would have all been long gone. Maybe the idea became if God’s real, the stories must be real too.

Here's an interesting link to how YHWH became what he became.

https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.pre...-1.5392677

I think that because you grew up as a Christian it's difficult for you to separate literal belief from figurative belief.    The Jewish friends I have are pretty much secular but they still "go to Temple" occassionally  because it's a tradition and gives them a sense of community.  Well....I think that's what Christianity is mostly all about too but Christians don't want to admit it. 

The greatest thing about having Jewish friends, besides their sharp intellect and sense of humor, is that they NEVER EVER try and convert you or give you the evil eye because you don't follow their god.    Some of my Christian friends, and I have many, are very nice, wonderful people and they're as politically liberal as I am but I have to watch what I say about religion. I can't get too involved in their lives because it frequently involves church.  I stick to crazy theatre people who don't give a shit about religion.
                                                         T4618
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#31

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 03:44 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(07-23-2019, 03:04 AM)Jenny Wrote: I was reading about some of the ancient sects of Judaism--like the Sadduccees, Pharisees, and the Essenes.  It seems like the first 5 books of the Torah were emphasized and followed by the Sadduccees and the Pharisees, but I'm not sure about the rest of it.  I'm still reading further about when the entire Hebrew Bible was compiled in written form since the stories were around orally for a long time prior to the written compilation.  Anyway, that's why I became interested in whether or not they viewed it as literal or figurative and wondered how things are viewed in today's world by those who follow the Jewish perspective.

The Sadducees and the Essenes are long gone. Only the descendents of the Pharisees are around today, identifying as Jewish.

There's still a dwindling Samaritan population, isn't there? I know that both Judaism and Samaritanism are both Hebrew religions, but never understood how they differ.
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#32

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 06:37 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote: There's still a dwindling Samaritan population, isn't there? I know that both Judaism and Samaritanism are both Hebrew religions, but never understood how they differ.

They're not Jewish. I don't even believe that they self-identify as Jewish either.

The Karaites are still around, and while they have attracted a lot of new adherents recently, they still have a core population that goes way back. Both them and mainstream Judaism recognize them as Jewish. Another group that is recognized is Beta Israel from Ethiopia. The Samaritans just aren't Jewish.
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#33

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 07:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(07-23-2019, 06:37 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote: There's still a dwindling Samaritan population, isn't there? I know that both Judaism and Samaritanism are both Hebrew religions, but never understood how they differ.

They're not Jewish. I don't even believe that they self-identify as Jewish either.

The Karaites are still around, and while they have attracted a lot of new adherents recently, they still have a core population that goes way back. Both them and mainstream Judaism recognize them as Jewish. Another group that is recognized is Beta Israel from Ethiopia. The Samaritans just aren't Jewish.

Ohh... they're like Mormons!  hobo Chuckle Tongue
Don't mistake me for those nice folks from Give-A-Shit county.
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#34

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
No, they think they are the real jews.  That's what comes from reading that fucked up bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#35

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 11:43 PM)Minimalist Wrote: No, they think they are the real jews.  That's what comes from reading that fucked up bible.
I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans

My mistake. They're more like Pentecostals.
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#36

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
It's all the same shit.



White people can't dance.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#37

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 11:43 PM)Minimalist Wrote: No, they think they are the real jews.  That's what comes from reading that fucked up bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans

I donno, Min. Maybe I'm wrong but something tells me you don't like religion all too much.    Thinking
                                                         T4618
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#38

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
Ssshhhh.

It's a secret.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#39

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 01:46 AM)Minimalist Wrote: Ssshhhh.

It's a secret.

I just want to say that immediately before reading this post I was thinking of Victoria's Secret. That's great timing right there.
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#40

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 12:57 AM)Minimalist Wrote: It's all the same shit.



White people can't dance.

What's wrong with people dancing in the synagogue? They look like they're enjoying themselves.
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#41

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
They dance like shit.  Just like these Pentecostal fuck heads.

Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#42

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 02:05 AM)Minimalist Wrote: They dance like shit.  Just like these Pentecostal fuck heads.


I've got two left feet, but I've got other redeeming qualities to compensate for my lack of dancing abilities. 

Sorry, I can't hold it against a group of people just because their dancing skills suck. I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find some incredible Jewish or Pentecostal dancers.
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#43

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 03:02 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(07-24-2019, 02:05 AM)Minimalist Wrote: They dance like shit.  Just like these Pentecostal fuck heads.


I've got two left feet, but I've got other redeeming qualities to compensate for my lack of dancing abilities. 

Sorry, I can't hold it against a group of people just because their dancing skills suck. I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find some incredible Jewish or Pentecostal dancers.

I can't dance either.  Too clumsy.   Thumbsdown
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#44

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
Quote:Sorry, I can't hold it against a group of people just because their dancing skills suck. I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find some incredible Jewish or Pentecostal dancers.


But I won't cuz Fuck 'em!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#45

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-23-2019, 02:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(07-23-2019, 02:26 AM)no one Wrote: Anyone who believes their holy book is infallible, needs to replace the captain of their brain ship.

I'm not saying that there aren't truths in these books. Truths that are mangled by the fear of ignorant.

However, to believe that any holy book is the literal word of the almighty, is just absofuckinglutely absurd.

... unless it was written by Carlin.

... or Rik Mayall

[Image: 5130SKP3F7L._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg]

My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#46

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
In my entire life, I knew only three Jews really well. They were all atheists.  Consider
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#47

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 12:57 AM)Minimalist Wrote: White people can't dance.

Lol. No and we have no rhythm, either. My wife grew up in Berkeley, was bussed to a black school as a child, and grew up on soul music and black culture. So she found the whitebread midwestern Presbyterian church where her daughter attended for awhile, an endless source of mirth with its unintentionally hilarious attempt at happy-clappy singing.
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#48

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 12:57 AM)Minimalist Wrote: White people can't dance.
Yes we can! Just look...

[Image: giphy.gif]
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#49

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 03:00 PM)mordant Wrote:
(07-24-2019, 12:57 AM)Minimalist Wrote: White people can't dance.

Lol. No and we have no rhythm, either. My wife grew up in Berkeley, was bussed to a black school as a child, and grew up on soul music and black culture. So she found the whitebread midwestern Presbyterian church where her daughter attended for awhile, an endless source of mirth with its unintentionally hilarious attempt at happy-clappy singing.

It's funny, I can't dance worth a shit, but let me strap a guitar on, and I can groove pretty hard, if I do so allow.

https://soundcloud.com/thumpalumpacus/lookin-for-five-0
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#50

Do Jews view the Bible as literally true?
(07-24-2019, 03:00 PM)mordant Wrote:
(07-24-2019, 12:57 AM)Minimalist Wrote: White people can't dance.

Lol. No and we have no rhythm, either. My wife grew up in Berkeley, was bussed to a black school as a child, and grew up on soul music and black culture. So she found the whitebread midwestern Presbyterian church where her daughter attended for awhile, an endless source of mirth with its unintentionally hilarious attempt at happy-clappy singing.


Reminds me of....

https://www.facebook.com/NCCLaguna/video...323242873/
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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