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Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
#1

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
maybe somebody could help if I omit the best steelmaning...
ignore Paul
ignore the gospels
claim that Josephus text are not interpolation
claim that Tacitus is not interpolation and hearsay of an urban legend.


what did I miss?
First I told my imaginary friend about Jesus, then I told Jesus about my imaginary friend.
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#2

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
Uh... using a spellchecker?
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#3

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
Spam
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#4

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
I simply cannot come up with a way to "steelman" Josephus.

"That's some really fine smelling bullshit you have there," doesn't seem to cut it!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#5

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-19-2019, 05:22 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: what did I miss?

Would you please write your book and stop spamming the board with your obsession of the month so that we can finally discuss something else. We get it; you disagree with an historical reductionist view of Jesus Christ and are absolutely convinced you are right and those who disagree with you are wrong and very stupid.
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#6

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
It's important to understand that the "historical reductionist" view only came into being when the religitards had to give up on their miracle-working godboy bullshit story that they enforced with burning at the stake for 1,200 years.  It's a fall-back position because what they really want to profess is mythic bullshit which was common in antiquity but has now gone out of style as man has progressed to something a bit more advanced than subsistence farming but unlike the fundies they can't bring themselves to do it because they are a little too modern for that.

So they pretend to be satisfied with a "jesus" who is little more than some schlepper from Galilee who got up every morning, took a dump, went to work and somehow managed to get himself killed by the powers-that-be and then a lot of stories sprung up about him.

I almost have more respect for the fundies who cling to the original horseshit story.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#7

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-19-2019, 06:05 PM)epronovost Wrote:
(07-19-2019, 05:22 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: what did I miss?

Would you please write your book and stop spamming the board with your obsession of the month so that we can finally discuss something else. We get it; you disagree with an historical reductionist view of Jesus Christ and are obsolutely convince you are right and those who disagree with you are wrong and very stupid.

a-fucking-men.

What's this? The 4th one now?
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#8

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-19-2019, 05:22 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: maybe somebody could help if I omit the best steelmaning...
ignore Paul
ignore the gospels
claim that Josephus text are not interpolation
claim that Tacitus is not interpolation and hearsay of an urban legend.


what did I miss?

Ignore Josephus.
Ignore Tacitus.

Stick with 'There are no hard facts so you can hold any opinion you like but the rest of us may well point and laugh.'
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#9

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
Have I introduced you to Harvey? He's this six foot tall rabbit standing next to me.
Don't mistake me for those nice folks from Give-A-Shit county.
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#10

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 01:03 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote: Have I introduced you to Harvey? He's this six foot tall rabbit standing next to me.

So is this Harvey completely mythical, or was there once a "historical Harvey"?
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#11

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
[Image: aff879e552c4af9385a31fd51c2a9555.jpg]


We have pictures of Harvey.  More than we can say about fucking jesus.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#12

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 02:20 AM)Minimalist Wrote: [Image: aff879e552c4af9385a31fd51c2a9555.jpg]


We have pictures of Harvey.  More than we can say about fucking jesus.

An obvious forgery.
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#13

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 02:57 AM)Free Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 02:20 AM)Minimalist Wrote: [Image: aff879e552c4af9385a31fd51c2a9555.jpg]


We have pictures of Harvey.  More than we can say about fucking jesus.

An obvious forgery.

I'd say it's more of an interpolation.
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#14

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 02:57 AM)Free Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 02:20 AM)Minimalist Wrote: [Image: aff879e552c4af9385a31fd51c2a9555.jpg]


We have pictures of Harvey.  More than we can say about fucking jesus.

An obvious forgery.


Just like Josephus!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#15

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 04:33 AM)Minimalist Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 02:57 AM)Free Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 02:20 AM)Minimalist Wrote: [Image: aff879e552c4af9385a31fd51c2a9555.jpg]


We have pictures of Harvey.  More than we can say about fucking jesus.

An obvious forgery.


Just like Josephus!

Any evidence of that?
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#16

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 02:20 AM)Minimalist Wrote: We have pictures of Harvey.  More than we can say about fucking jesus.

I'm a little relieved that we don't have any pictures of Fucking Jesus. There's no way that crucifixion porn is ever getting sexy.
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#17

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
Quote:Any evidence of that?


Sure.  As soon as you can point me to the place where it actually exists.  We can go over it if you like.

Here is the TF as written by Eusebius in Historia Ecclesia:

Quote:“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, accused by the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; the Prophets of God had prophesized these and countless other marvellous things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day” (HEc. I 11,7/8)

It's as phony as a $3 bill.

Where's your version?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#18

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 04:06 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Any evidence of that?


Sure.  As soon as you can point me to the place where it actually exists.  We can go over it if you like.

Here is the TF as written by Eusebius in Historia Ecclesia:

Quote:“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, accused by the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; the Prophets of God had prophesized these and countless other marvellous things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day” (HEc. I 11,7/8)

It's as phony as a $3 bill.

Where's your version?

You keep claiming it's phony.

What evidence do you have?

Are you trying to use your opinion as if it's evidence?
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#19

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
I'm simply asking you to show me where your version exists.  I have given you my evidence for the existence of it in a source from antiquity.  If you don't have such evidence then just admit it.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#20

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 05:17 PM)Free Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 04:06 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Any evidence of that?


Sure.  As soon as you can point me to the place where it actually exists.  We can go over it if you like.

Here is the TF as written by Eusebius in Historia Ecclesia:

Quote:“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, accused by the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; the Prophets of God had prophesized these and countless other marvellous things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day” (HEc. I 11,7/8)

It's as phony as a $3 bill.

Where's your version?

You keep claiming it's phony.

What evidence do you have?

Are you trying to use your opinion as if it's evidence?

You have any evidence that he thought of, or called a Jesus "the Christ" in any other context ?
Why would he say this, in a book in which he was trying to say Vespasian was "the Christ" ?  
Did he in any other works or in any other way, affirm these things ?

I vaguely remember some dude on an atheist forum, um...let me see, was it just last week ... hmmm, well anyway, this dude was foaming at the mouth about "circumstantial evidence". Guess what the circumstantial evidence would be about this here little testicle-monial ?
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#21

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 05:22 PM)Minimalist Wrote: I'm simply asking you to show me where your version exists.  I have given you my evidence for the existence of it in a source from antiquity.  If you don't have such evidence then just admit it.

My point is that you claim it to be phony. 

What evidence do you have that demonstrates that it actually is phony?

I don't have to provide any evidence. You are the one who made the claim, so now let's see the evidence.
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#22

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 05:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 05:17 PM)Free Wrote:
(07-22-2019, 04:06 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Sure.  As soon as you can point me to the place where it actually exists.  We can go over it if you like.

Here is the TF as written by Eusebius in Historia Ecclesia:


It's as phony as a $3 bill.

Where's your version?

You keep claiming it's phony.

What evidence do you have?

Are you trying to use your opinion as if it's evidence?

You have any evidence that he thought of, or called a Jesus "the Christ" in any other context ?
Why would he say this, in a book in which he was trying to say Vespasian was "the Christ" ?  
Did he in any other works or in any other way, affirm these things ?

I vaguely remember some dude on an atheist forum, um...let me see, was it just last week ... hmmm, well anyway, this dude was foaming at the mouth about "circumstantial evidence". Guess what the circumstantial evidence would be about this here little testicle-monial ?

So?

Now provide the circumstantial evidence.

Let's see it.

I am under no obligation whatsoever to prove anything here. I am not the one making claims of forgery or phoniness.
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#23

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
Any reasonable person reading this crap in a book about SOMEONE ELSE being the messiah, (there was a group in both Rome and Judea, that thought the messiah would come from the East, but NOT from Israel), by someone who worked in Rome and never ever anywhere else talked about this Jesus being the messiah would at least ask about "what's up with this ?" Do you know what the text is talking about before this and after this, "rude interruption ?"
"So" (?) is a pathetic response. You answered nothing. I never asked you to prove anything. I asked you to answer a couple simple questions. Never mind. You are such a fraud.
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#24

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
Rofl2 Oh no,  not again!

[Image: 8a9.gif]


Opps, wrong horse. 


[Image: giphy.gif]
                                                         T4618
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#25

Steelmaning Histrorical Jesus for the Christers
(07-22-2019, 05:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Any reasonable person reading this crap in a book about SOMEONE ELSE being the messiah, (there was a group in both Rome and Judea, that thought the messiah would come from the East, but NOT from Israel), by someone who worked in Rome and never ever anywhere else talked about this Jesus being the messiah would at least ask about "what's up with this ?" Do you know what the text is talking about before this and after this, "rude interruption ?"

That is not evidence. It's an argument from silence. It's a suspicion that may or may not be warranted. It really depends on they eye of the beholder. At the end of the day, numerous opinions vary, but no one actually has any evidence.

But by no means can that (opinion) be considered as evidence of anything whatsoever.


Quote:"So" (?) is a pathetic response. You answered nothing. I never asked you to prove anything. I asked you to answer a couple simple questions. Never mind. You are such a fraud.

You are asking me to provide evidence: "You have any evidence that he thought of, or called a Jesus "the Christ" in any other context ?

How much more obvious could Antiquities 20: 9-1 be? And you call ME a fraud? After you missed the most obvious response imaginable? Seriously?

Facepalm

I am under no obligation to provide any evidence at all. I am not the one making any claims of forgery or phoniness.
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