Welcome to Atheist Discussion, a new community created by former members of The Thinking Atheist forum.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
#1

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
According to Dr. Robert Lanza

Quote:A book titled “Biocentrism: How Life and Consciousness Are the Keys to Understanding the Nature of the Universe” has stirred up the Internet, because it contained a notion that life does not end when the body dies, and it can last forever. The author of this publication, scientist Dr. Robert Lanza who was voted the 3rd most important scientist alive by the NY Times, has no doubts that this is possible.
The following 2 users Like Phaedrus's post:
  • GenesisNemesis, EvieTheAvocado
Reply
#2

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
I started into that link, then I quickly retreated. I have to go fine my deep waders for that material.
The following 2 users Like skyking's post:
  • Phaedrus, GenesisNemesis
Reply
#3

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
"Lanza is an expert in regenerative medicine..."

An expert in regenerative medicine... but not quantum theory. 

Quote:This account of quantum consciousness explains things like near-death experiences, astral projection, out of body experiences, and even reincarnation without needing to appeal to religious ideology

Simpler explanation: the brain is complicated and doesn't always work right.
Reply
#4

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
Robert Lanza is obviously one smart bloke, but like all scientific
superstars, he has his Deepak Chopra moments... lots of them.

Dr. Robert Lanza and "biocentrism": Time to get out the paper bag again

     Dodgy
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
The following 4 users Like SYZ's post:
  • Alan V, Bucky Ball, Jenny, Chas
Reply
#5

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 08:53 AM)SYZ Wrote: Robert Lanza is obviously one smart bloke, but like all scientific
superstars, he has his Deepak Chopra moments... lots of them.

I blame philosopher David Chalmers, and his "hard problem" of consciousness.

"Chalmers is best known for formulating what he calls the hard problem of consciousness, in both his 1995 paper 'Facing Up to the Problem of Consciousness' and his 1996 book The Conscious Mind. He makes a distinction between 'easy' problems of consciousness, such as explaining object discrimination or verbal reports, and the single hard problem, which could be stated 'why does the feeling which accompanies awareness of sensory information exist at all?' The essential difference between the (cognitive) easy problems and the (phenomenal) hard problem is that the former are at least theoretically answerable via the dominant strategy in the philosophy of mind: physicalism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers

If they buy into that framing of the problem, it's no wonder some scientists look for "explanations" for consciousness on the fringes of science.
The following 2 users Like Alan V's post:
  • Mathilda, SYZ
Reply
#6

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
The New England Skeptical Society does a really good job of dismantling Lanza’s ideas.  Just google New England skeptical society Robert Lanza biocentrism and the article pops right up if anyone’s interested in reading it.
The following 8 users Like Jenny's post:
  • skyking, Mathilda, Bucky Ball, Paleophyte, brewerb, Szuchow, Dānu, Chas
Reply
#7

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
He should stick to stem cells....and leave the philosophy to the burger flippers at McDonalds.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
The following 2 users Like Minimalist's post:
  • Mathilda, Bucky Ball
Reply
#8

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 04:10 PM)Jenny Wrote: The New England Skeptical Society does a really good job of dismantling Lanza’s ideas.  Just google New England skeptical society Robert Lanza biocentrism and the article pops right up if anyone’s interested in reading it.
Thanks, but my BS sensor is fully functional. Smile
The following 1 user Likes skyking's post:
  • Jenny
Reply
#9

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 04:14 PM)Minimalist Wrote: He should stick to stem cells....and leave the philosophy to the burger flippers at McDonalds.

Burger flippers are deep thinkers, they philosophize over which side of the burger is up.    



I don't see Chas around much but he made a statement several years ago about consciousness that I copied and put in my files.  It's so simple and precise.

"Your conscious mind was non-existent prior to your existence as it is reliant upon your functioning brain.  You conscious mind will be non-existent once you are dead."
                                                         T4618
The following 2 users Like Dancefortwo's post:
  • GenesisNemesis, Dom
Reply
#10

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 05:29 PM)skyking Wrote:
(07-14-2019, 04:10 PM)Jenny Wrote: The New England Skeptical Society does a really good job of dismantling Lanza’s ideas.  Just google New England skeptical society Robert Lanza biocentrism and the article pops right up if anyone’s interested in reading it.
Thanks, but my BS sensor is fully functional. Smile

Understood but instead of reading Lanza’s article, I decided to read the skeptical society one instead to get a synopsis  Big Grin I also like to post rebuttal info in these types of threads because sometimes Religious folk who are in the process of leaving religion come across this info and I think it’s good to have info available to them that is nonwoo.
Reply
#11

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
You are awesome like that, Jenny Smile
The following 1 user Likes skyking's post:
  • Jenny
Reply
#12

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 07:18 PM)skyking Wrote: You are awesome like that, Jenny Smile

Awww too sweet  girl blushing
Reply
#13

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
I leave room for further discoveries in everything, including in whether we will some day find something heretofore intangible and immeasurable that leaves the body at death.

Logic tells me firstly that this something would remain from all life forms. It would be like a remnant when life leaves a host. Logic also tells me that, since everything we know of eventually decomposes into fragments and gets redistributed in fragments, that would apply to this unknown thing also. 

So, even allowing for incomplete information, "consciousness" would not remain a unit but a disjointed jumble of stuff.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
The following 2 users Like Dom's post:
  • EvieTheAvocado, Smercury44
Reply
#14

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 06:03 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(07-14-2019, 04:14 PM)Minimalist Wrote: He should stick to stem cells....and leave the philosophy to the burger flippers at McDonalds.

Burger flippers are deep thinkers, they philosophize over which side of the burger is up.    



I don't see Chas around much but he made a statement several years ago about consciousness that I copied and put in my files.  It's so simple and precise.

"Your conscious mind was non-existent prior to your existence as it is reliant upon your functioning brain.  You conscious mind will be non-existent once you are dead."

One's conscious mind is present ONLY as long as it's functions and processes are healthy. 
One can live for years in a vegetative state, in which we can test whether there is any consciousness present, or not.
Brain death is universally accepted in medical practice as a marker of life or death.
The following 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post:
  • Jenny, Dancefortwo
Reply
#15

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
It sounds like we're going to enter a new age of putting really sick people on very sensitive scales.
Reply
#16

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
Quote:I leave room for further discoveries in everything, including in whether we will some day find something heretofore intangible and immeasurable that leaves the body at death.


The sphincter and the colon open up but that would, of course, be measurable.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
Reply
#17

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
I don't buy it, we are a product of our brains and that ends at death. If consciousness continues after death that's bad news for anyone suffering from dementia unless this Lanza guy thinks it gets magically reversed somehow.
Justaminute    Salisbury steak...... A hamburger by any other name. 
The following 5 users Like adey67's post:
  • Alan V, Jenny, Thumpalumpacus, Dancefortwo, Chas
Reply
#18

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
I'm a panpsychist and many people see that as intuitively absurd and they mistake it for new age nonsense. They don't actually have an argument against it, though.

The truth is that many scientists agree with panpsychism but they're scared of speaking out for fear of being laughed at.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#19

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 09:36 AM)Alan V Wrote: I blame philosopher David Chalmers, and his "hard problem" of consciousness.

Oh dear, we have a Dennettian in the room.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#20

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 07:36 PM)Dom Wrote: So, even allowing for incomplete information, "consciousness" would not remain a unit but a disjointed jumble of stuff.

It may be that there's consciousness after death ... but it isn't really us.

just because consciousness resumes doesn't mean that identity or selfhood does.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#21

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-14-2019, 11:47 PM)adey67 Wrote: If consciousness continues after death that's bad news for anyone suffering from dementia unless this Lanza guy thinks it gets magically reversed somehow.

If there's consciousness after death it would only be to the same degree that there's consciousness before death. And, to put it mildly, I'm pretty sure that the consciousness of microorganisms is still a lot more simplistic than the consciousness of dementia sufferers. So it would be helpful to ask "Is there life before birth?" ... it's obviously not your life. Or my life. Or any human life. But I think any realistic kind of afterlife would have to be a return to whatever was experienced, by whatever entity, before birth. The idea of our consciousness persisting with the same sort of complexity as it had before our death, despite the fact that our brain died, seems absurd to me. If there's no consciousness before birth then there's no consciousness after. If there's consciousness before birth then there's consciousness after. In any case it isn't really our consciousness. Not just because our personality dies, that's the case already in sufferers of severe dementia who are still living, but because our consciousness is consciousness of the sort produced in brains. Quantum consciousness sounds woo-y because people can't imagine a consciousness that is absolutely nothing like human consciousness. (Also, because people like Deepak Chopra give the whole thing a bad rap). If there is consciousness in the quantum world it's not some sort of wooy super intelligence where human-like minds are floating around in the quantum realm. And it's not evidence of some sort of super intelligence or that the universe has a mind. It's instead a watered down consciousness so watered down that it's almost zero. And we're not talking about watered down human consciousness because even the most trace element of human consciousness is still experienced in the way that humans experience consciousness. We're talking about some sort of watered down experfience that we could never really understand as humans because it is so close to zero and so unlike our own human experience.

William James, for me, best expresses the hard problem all the way back in 1890:

Wiilliam James Wrote:The fact is that discontinuity comes in if a new nature comes in at all. The quantity of the latter is quite immaterial. The girl in 'Midshipman Easy' could not excuse the illegitimacy of her child by saying, 'it was a very small one.' And Consciousness, however small, is an illegitimate birth in any philosophy that starts without it, and yet professes to explain all facts by continuous evolution.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#22

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-15-2019, 09:00 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: I'm a panpsychist and many people see that as intuitively absurd and they mistake it for new age nonsense. They don't actually have an argument against it, though.

(07-15-2019, 09:02 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(07-14-2019, 09:36 AM)Alan V Wrote: I blame philosopher David Chalmers, and his "hard problem" of consciousness.

Oh dear, we have a Dennettian in the room.

(07-15-2019, 09:07 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: William James, for me, best expresses the hard problem all the way back in 1890:

Wiilliam James Wrote:The fact is that discontinuity comes in if a new nature comes in at all. The quantity of the latter is quite immaterial. The girl in 'Midshipman Easy' could not excuse the illegitimacy of her child by saying, 'it was a very small one.' And Consciousness, however small, is an illegitimate birth in any philosophy that starts without it, and yet professes to explain all facts by continuous evolution.

I don't know what views a Dennettian supports.  Perhaps you could explain.

However, I was so impressed by William James's Principles of Psychology back in the 1990s when I was still a theist that I typed up my own abridgement of the work.  I just don't agree with everything he wrote anymore.

In fact, people do have an argument against panpsychism: it is reductionistic when the observable world obviously isn't.  Life, consciousness, and individual identity are all emergent properties of highly complex, self-organized combinations of matter.  They are not new substances somehow, they are processes which people who support an over-simplified materialism think impossible in a strictly material world, for some reason. Just as there are no "atoms of life," or "atoms of identity," there need not be any "atoms of consciousness."

That consciousness is a process of complex arrangements of matter, rather than a unity, is easy to demonstrate just by observing how it is altered or reduced by drug use, sleep and dreaming, or physical damage to the brain.  In fact, in certain conditions it disappears altogether even in healthy individuals.  So how exactly do you justify the idea that there are some "atoms of consciousness" out there? That's not exactly the simplest explanation.
The following 5 users Like Alan V's post:
  • julep, Mathilda, Dānu, Thumpalumpacus, adey67
Reply
#23

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-15-2019, 09:00 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: The truth is that many scientists agree with panpsychism but they're scared of speaking out for fear of being laughed at.

[Citation required]
The following 1 user Likes Mathilda's post:
  • skyking
Reply
#24

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-15-2019, 09:02 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(07-14-2019, 09:36 AM)Alan V Wrote: I blame philosopher David Chalmers, and his "hard problem" of consciousness.

Oh dear, we have a Dennettian in the room.

Why is it assumed that if you hold a view it's named after someone who you might not have even read? I've never read any of Dennet's books but I strongly disagree with labelling consciousness as a hard problem. It might turn out to be, but for the moment we have absolutely no reason or evidence to suggest that it is. Calling it a hard problem and claiming that we need quantum mechanics is a method that people use to sweep problems under the carpet to avoid having to provide answers.

Saying that, neurons have now been shown to emit biophotons and this opens the possibility that quantum entanglement could occur. But that's still a very long way from assuming that quantum mechanics is actually required. I've never heard a good explanation as to why it should be. It's most often a case of someone being unable to define what they are actually referring to, e.g. by discussing qualia.
The following 1 user Likes Mathilda's post:
  • Alan V
Reply
#25

Quantum Theory proves consciousness moves on after death?
(07-15-2019, 09:07 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: If there is consciousness in the quantum world it's not some sort of wooy super intelligence where human-like minds are floating around in the quantum realm. And it's not evidence of some sort of super intelligence or that the universe has a mind. It's instead a watered down consciousness so watered down that it's almost zero. And we're not talking about watered down human consciousness because even the most trace element of human consciousness is still experienced in the way that humans experience consciousness. We're talking about some sort of watered down experfience that we could never really understand as humans because it is so close to zero and so unlike our own human experience.

What's it conscious of?
The following 2 users Like Mathilda's post:
  • Alan V, Dom
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)